Like us on Facebook


Follow us on Twitter





Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 20
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Los Angeles County, CA
    Posts
    19,179
    vCash
    1500

    YAC Is Completely Out of the QBs Control

    I just read this, and I'm wondering who agrees and who disagrees. What are your thoughts on this? I personally feel that ball placement plays a very big role but you know how valid the eye test is...

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    over there, no a little further
    Posts
    4,709
    vCash
    4825
    That is a ridiculous idea IMO.

    If you throw a ball that puts a player into a linebacker or safety no YAC, if you float the ball to much or throw it to where the player player needs to dive to catch it no YAC.

    You need a good throw in the right spot (or close to it) so the pass catcher whether WR or other can catch it, not get hit right away, and be able to turn it into some bigger.

    Sometimes a pass is so short you need blockers in place or its nothing. While I agree you need the ball caught, blockers, and for that person to do something once caught, they don't have a chance if the QB doesn't make a solid decision.
    The real 99% are idiots and sheep when you post give me a reason to believe you are part of the 1%.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Lancaster, Pa
    Posts
    10,560
    vCash
    3425
    The OP has a good point despite the fact that he didn't flesh it out.

    How many times do you see a little WR screen that the QB really throws 3 yards forwards, the WR breaks a DB's tackle and runs off for another 60 yards for the TD. Why should a QB get all that credit?

    Slant pass that the QB puts in the right place but two DBs hit the WR and don't take him down. Is that really because of a QBs good throw?

    My suggestion is the NFL invests in the sportVU camera system that the NBA. Then you can do a three way break down and have your traditional passing yards, 'true passing yards' which would be the passing yards minus yards after contact, and finally "passing in air" which you could use that measures the actual yards of the ball traveled in yards in air (for those that know, you would create a right angle with the straight out from where the ball was passed, and across where it was caught, pythagorean theorem to find that yardage).

    This way you can look at the total yardage, find out how much he's actually responsible for, and how far he actually throws it. Great way to separate what QBs get help from their WRs, which one throws lots of screens, ect, ect.
    Warning, my sig is NSFW. But hot damn is it hot:

    Click here to see how awesome.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    5,819
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by WOwolfOL View Post
    I just read this, and I'm wondering who agrees and who disagrees. What are your thoughts on this? I personally feel that ball placement plays a very big role but you know how valid the eye test is...
    Did the source cite some kind of data? I kind of tend to agree with you on ball placement, but would love to see how the conclusion was reached.
    "The idea that the market will solve such things as environmental concerns, as our racial divides, as our class distinctions, our problems with educating and incorporating one generation of workers into the economy after the other when that economy is changing; the idea that the market is going to heed all of the human concerns and still maximise profit is juvenile. . . Are we all in this together or are we all not?" - David Simon, creator of The Wire

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    5,133
    vCash
    1500
    Depends on the situation. A well placed ball that leads the receiver into open space, and the qb deserves at least some credit for it. A little screen pass where the receiver breaks several tackles right off the bat, and not so much.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    638
    vCash
    1500
    The Saints had one runningback in every top5 in YAC for the past 3 seasons. Hell, in 2012 Sproles had more YAC than his total receiving yards. Wes Welker is also a guy you would see constantly being at the top of the league. I think it has to do more with the offensive scheme and the playcalling. I think this is one of those things you have to actually see it play-by-play to judge if the quarterback had anything to with it or not.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Rhode Island
    Posts
    21,184
    vCash
    1500
    If you're talking screen passes then yeah, the QB is pretty much irrelevant but when you're talking about YAC accumulated on throws down the field the QB is probably even more important than the receiver IMO.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Haha View Post
    What I feel right now is like the satisfaction you feel when a highly judgmental, moralistic televangelist gets caught screwing a male hooker.
    NE Patriots Forum HOF (Class of 2011)

    Trill Team

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Wiscansin
    Posts
    181
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by warfelg View Post
    The OP has a good point despite the fact that he didn't flesh it out.

    How many times do you see a little WR screen that the QB really throws 3 yards forwards, the WR breaks a DB's tackle and runs off for another 60 yards for the TD. Why should a QB get all that credit?

    Slant pass that the QB puts in the right place but two DBs hit the WR and don't take him down. Is that really because of a QBs good throw?

    My suggestion is the NFL invests in the sportVU camera system that the NBA. Then you can do a three way break down and have your traditional passing yards, 'true passing yards' which would be the passing yards minus yards after contact, and finally "passing in air" which you could use that measures the actual yards of the ball traveled in yards in air (for those that know, you would create a right angle with the straight out from where the ball was passed, and across where it was caught, pythagorean theorem to find that yardage).

    This way you can look at the total yardage, find out how much he's actually responsible for, and how far he actually throws it. Great way to separate what QBs get help from their WRs, which one throws lots of screens, ect, ect.
    Never really thought about that, but a great idea nonetheless... good post.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Lancaster, Pa
    Posts
    10,560
    vCash
    3425
    Quote Originally Posted by BudGrant View Post
    Never really thought about that, but a great idea nonetheless... good post.
    Even if you aren't a fan of the NBA go to NBA.com and check out the stats that come from it. Literally everything that can be measured to tracked in the NBA are with this system. It would open all new measurables in the NFL that we didn't even know of.
    Warning, my sig is NSFW. But hot damn is it hot:

    Click here to see how awesome.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    5,308
    vCash
    1500
    Definitely matters. One of the things that's frustrating is how people talk about QB accuracy and relate it to completion % only. YAC is a huge reflection on your accuracy however the numbers CAN be skewed if you have some pretty explosive WR's.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Rhode Island
    Posts
    21,184
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by ztilzer31 View Post
    Definitely matters. One of the things that's frustrating is how people talk about QB accuracy and relate it to completion % only. YAC is a huge reflection on your accuracy however the numbers CAN be skewed if you have some pretty explosive WR's.
    Even that explosive receiver is dependent on the ball being in the right spot. It's a lot easier to make defenders miss when you're running at full speed. If even the most explosive receiver loses a ton of his ability to make people miss if he has to slow down or turn around even a tiny bit to make the catch.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Haha View Post
    What I feel right now is like the satisfaction you feel when a highly judgmental, moralistic televangelist gets caught screwing a male hooker.
    NE Patriots Forum HOF (Class of 2011)

    Trill Team

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    1,036
    vCash
    1500
    Absolutely has to do with the QB in a huge way. Deymarius Thomas 4.0 yards after the catch his last year with Tebow as his QB. 8.2 with Peyton as his QB.

    I think its heavily based on 3 things.

    1. Quarterback. Hit a WR in stride on a little WR screen, he goes 80 yards. Throw it a yard behind him and you have a 3 yard loss.

    2. WR talent. A guy who can make people miss or run away from defenders of course is going to be good here. Hit Calvin Johnson with a step on a defender and you have a TD. Hit Anquan Boldin in the same situation and he gets 4 more yards.

    3. Scheme. YAC has jumped over the past 20-25 years with the west coast offense proliferating the NFL. Even the teams that don't have true WCO lines in their coaching throw WCO routes.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    638
    vCash
    1500
    How about quarterbacks who change the play into quick slants and put their receivers in position for big gains, depending on what the defense is showing? Big Ben comes to mind right now, I know I've seen him and Brown doing it. Another interesting thing about receivers like AB is that they can get huge separation at the line of scrimmage when the corner is playing press and tries to jam him. If the quarterback sees it it's most likely gonna go all the way, and though a little bit of accuracy is required not to slow him down, it's circumstancial and most of the credit should go to the receiver.

    How about 2-minute drills, when the defense drops deep in coverage and the quarterback is free to hit underneath routes that would most likely mean YAC gains? Not big ones, but it eventually adds up. I mean, it's still circumstancial, there are quarterbacks who are asked to throw into tight windows that won't allow any extra yards, some of them are having the freedom to hit receivers running over the middle, there are some who like to check down a lot. Exactly like all the other stats out there, this one does not tell the full story either.
    Last edited by Andrei00; 12-15-2013 at 04:00 PM.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Los Angeles County, CA
    Posts
    19,179
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by Labgrownmangoat View Post
    Did the source cite some kind of data? I kind of tend to agree with you on ball placement, but would love to see how the conclusion was reached.
    I didn't want to put the poster on blast, nor did I want this to become another Cutler/McCown thread, but it's based off of this post made in the Bears' forum.

    Quote Originally Posted by Random Bears Fan View Post
    Something else that's interesting is that 67 % of Cutler's yards have come before the catch was made, yet his Y/A is 7.2, which is much less than McCown's 8.22 Y/A with only 55 % of his yards coming before the catch. This suggests a lot of YAC for McCown which is completely out of his control.
    I've often argued that Cutler's poor footwork and mechanics leads to a lot of completions that leave very little room for the receiver to advance the ball, due to faulty ball placement. This is often on very simple throws, where he either throws behind a wide open receiver or doesn't lead them right and the YAC is limited. Again I didn't want to just add to that QB controversy debate; I felt it was a question I wanted to see everybody's opinions on.
    Last edited by WOwolfOL; 12-15-2013 at 05:53 PM.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Los Angeles County, CA
    Posts
    19,179
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by hugepatsfan View Post
    If you're talking screen passes then yeah, the QB is pretty much irrelevant but when you're talking about YAC accumulated on throws down the field the QB is probably even more important than the receiver IMO.
    No, not really screen passes but certainly dig routes and short outs, intermediate routes, even slants. Those are the passes where YAC really racks up and I think ball placement plays a big part.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •