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  1. #1
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    Reason for Toronto sports team failures? The fans.

    In my opinion, the reason for the failing Raptors and other Toronto teams is NOT the ownership, CEO, General Manager, Coaches, Players etc… the problem are the fans.

    Here’s my reasoning, the Raptors have replaced the ownership with wealthy corporations like Rogers who are not afraid to spend the dollars to win championships i.e.) Blue Jays. The Raptors have also upgraded their CEO to Tim Leiweke who’s apparently the best in the business in his trade (still too early to see results), new General Managers in Colangelo, Ujiri, Burke and Nonis who were/are also arguably the best in their trades. No matter what upgrades the organization make there is only one constant the fans.

    Watching the debacle in Golden State the other night I saw how the Warrior fans brought their team back to life and eventually defeat the Raps coming back from a 27 point deficit. I then watched how the Premiership football clubs get their unconditional support and how it translates to better effort, and results on the field. Most successful franchises have very loud arenas and supportive fans that bring the positive psychological edge to their teams. Even the Raptors played amazing for the first three quarters just because they were away from the ACC… And watching the Raptors play in Montreal brought an extra step and an extra physiological advantage to the players.

    So, I was thinking why don’t the Raptors, Leafs, Blue Jays have the same enthusiastic support?? Just recently, the Buffalo Bills franchise issued a statement that they will review the games played in Toronto because it does not bring a competitive advantage to the team. Watching games in Toronto you could hear a pin drop in the arenas. This causes a ripple effect to the players in sluggish starts, weak effort and weak psychology.

    One of the reasons is the corporate seats. The lower bowl of every game is half empty and when full is at best very mute! I think that if the MLSE is serious about winning they should start focusing on improving the fan and player experience at the stadiums/arenas by reducing the corporate seats to only 20% of the lower bowl. In addition, successful arenas such as Golden State should be examined to see what they do differently and implement the same strategies in the ACC. I believe this is the only way to change the culture of the team and produce wins!

    Thoughts? (Sorry for the long post…)
    LEAFS, CHELSEA FC, RAPTORS, BLUE JAYS, COWBOYS

  2. #2
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    I completely disagree. I think Toronto has one of the best fan bases across North America. Even when the cooperations have put out lousy products, the fan support has been there. Leafs in particular have received unreal support from the fans. Even raptors with all the crappy teams, have never been in the bottom of the attendance chart. We are all humans and we have our limitations and patience. Of course the patience is going to run out when you keep on getting lousy products. As for Buffalo Bills, how can we stand behind a team that we have no affiliation to? They are not the Toronto Bills. It is still another city. How can they possibly expect the same kind of reaction from the fans in Toronto? I am a steelers fan. Why am I going to support the bills when I attend their games? I just go for the entertainment. It is a neutral site game and shouldn’t be called a home game.

  3. #3
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    Hi, I'm an NBA player who is looking for a max contract. I'm a superstar with my current team, and have potential to become a leader of a franchise. I would LOVE to play in Cali, FLA, NY or Texas. Canada? How far away is that? Will I get the same endorements? Will I be taxed differently? Can I live out my dream of winning an NBA title with a franchise that dosent know if they're coming or going? Non of my boys wanna play here either!! This city is amazing, but not for basketball.

  4. #4
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    The Raptors/leafs fans are very loyal but very quiet. They don't contribute to any type of on field advantage. As for the Bills, there are plenty of Bills fans in Tdot but the fans are just too timid. Get rid of the corporate seats and you'll see the difference on field and in the win column.
    LEAFS, CHELSEA FC, RAPTORS, BLUE JAYS, COWBOYS

  5. #5
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    Corporate seats generate revenue.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottroberts154 View Post
    Corporate seats generate revenue.
    I agree but at what cost?

    The Heat game only drew 16,000 fans....

    The Raps can still make their money through National TV games if they WIN!
    Last edited by Mikeleafs; 12-05-2013 at 02:33 PM.
    LEAFS, CHELSEA FC, RAPTORS, BLUE JAYS, COWBOYS

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikeleafs View Post
    The Raptors/leafs fans are very loyal but very quiet. They don't contribute to any type of on field advantage. As for the Bills, there are plenty of Bills fans in Tdot but the fans are just too timid. Get rid of the corporate seats and you'll see the difference on field and in the win column.
    I have been to the raptors playoff games and the crowd is insane. Sure we not loud like the Portland or GST crowd, but it was still quite loud. Also when VC, TMac returned, the crowd was quite passionate. I don't think we have enough experience cheering for good times. As for the Bills, I agree that lots of people attend the game without much football knowledge (mainly cuz of cooperate seats). So of course it is going to be quiet.

  8. #8
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    Kind of hard to cheer for getting out shot 12-0 in the 3rd period hockey or ISO Sub 40 percent shooting efforts on the court night in and night out. .. It's not up to the fans to make the teams good, or entertaining...

  9. #9
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    I don't know about this. I've been to games, and it has been quiet, but really Toronto fans have nothing to cheer about. If you think about those days when VC was tearing up the ACC, the place was loud as hell. Right now, who do we have to cheer for? Gay, Demar? Our team is absolutely pathetic, and they don't play the type of basketball that is fun to watch. In addition to that, they don't even win.
    \

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by killersweet View Post
    I have been to the raptors playoff games and the crowd is insane. Sure we not loud like the Portland or GST crowd, but it was still quite loud. Also when VC, TMac returned, the crowd was quite passionate. I don't think we have enough experience cheering for good times. As for the Bills, I agree that lots of people attend the game without much football knowledge (mainly cuz of cooperate seats). So of course it is going to be quiet.
    I've been to playoff games for the Raptors and the Leafs and people do get really ****ing passionate.

  11. #11
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    I watched the Premiership game with Chelsea vs Southampton the other day and the crowd of Southampton was amazing. Their club is in the bottom of the table but they still gave amazing support and as a result the team gave Chelsea all they could handle.

    Saying that there's nothing to cheer for is just an excuse. There are plenty of things to cheer about especially in basketball. And when things aren't going well I think the fans need to pick the team up.
    LEAFS, CHELSEA FC, RAPTORS, BLUE JAYS, COWBOYS

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by killersweet View Post
    I completely disagree. I think Toronto has one of the best fan bases across North America. Even when the cooperations have put out lousy products, the fan support has been there. Leafs in particular have received unreal support from the fans. Even raptors with all the crappy teams, have never been in the bottom of the attendance chart. We are all humans and we have our limitations and patience. Of course the patience is going to run out when you keep on getting lousy products. As for Buffalo Bills, how can we stand behind a team that we have no affiliation to? They are not the Toronto Bills. It is still another city. How can they possibly expect the same kind of reaction from the fans in Toronto? I am a steelers fan. Why am I going to support the bills when I attend their games? I just go for the entertainment. It is a neutral site game and shouldn’t be called a home game.
    Attendance isn't the only deciding factor in how good the fanbase is. Toronto fans aren't very loud and boisterous for anything really. The NFL has considered Toronto for a long while but its hard for them to find a reason to go. The Bills going to Toronto for those games was an audition and Toronto failed it miserably. Less fans each game and very little in the way of atmosphere. Combine that with the city not supporting a pro football team that has been there for 100 years and Toronto is doing a poor job of showing its a market for football.

    I don't agree that this is the reason Toronto teams suck but its fanbase isn't really a selling point either.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikeleafs View Post
    In my opinion, the reason for the failing Raptors and other Toronto teams is NOT the ownership, CEO, General Manager, Coaches, Players etc… the problem are the fans.

    Here’s my reasoning, the Raptors have replaced the ownership with wealthy corporations like Rogers who are not afraid to spend the dollars to win championships i.e.) Blue Jays. The Raptors have also upgraded their CEO to Tim Leiweke who’s apparently the best in the business in his trade (still too early to see results), new General Managers in Colangelo, Ujiri, Burke and Nonis who were/are also arguably the best in their trades. No matter what upgrades the organization make there is only one constant the fans.
    Watching the debacle in Golden State the other night I saw how the Warrior fans brought their team back to life and eventually defeat the Raps coming back from a 27 point deficit. I then watched how the Premiership football clubs get their unconditional support and how it translates to better effort, and results on the field. Most successful franchises have very loud arenas and supportive fans that bring the positive psychological edge to their teams. Even the Raptors played amazing for the first three quarters just because they were away from the ACC… And watching the Raptors play in Montreal brought an extra step and an extra physiological advantage to the players.

    So, I was thinking why don’t the Raptors, Leafs, Blue Jays have the same enthusiastic support?? Just recently, the Buffalo Bills franchise issued a statement that they will review the games played in Toronto because it does not bring a competitive advantage to the team. Watching games in Toronto you could hear a pin drop in the arenas. This causes a ripple effect to the players in sluggish starts, weak effort and weak psychology.

    One of the reasons is the corporate seats. The lower bowl of every game is half empty and when full is at best very mute! I think that if the MLSE is serious about winning they should start focusing on improving the fan and player experience at the stadiums/arenas by reducing the corporate seats to only 20% of the lower bowl. In addition, successful arenas such as Golden State should be examined to see what they do differently and implement the same strategies in the ACC. I believe this is the only way to change the culture of the team and produce wins!

    Thoughts? (Sorry for the long post…)
    Your reasoning in this paragraph leans heavily on very small sample sizes. How long has Rogers had ownership over the Leafs and Raptors? How long has Ujiri and Nonis had the reigns on their respective teams? How long has Leiweke been involved? Using them to illustrate a continued lack of success from one entity to the next is reaching.

    Regarding reducing the lack of success of a few organizations to the fans, it seems like a silly suggestion. I don't think you can reduce it to any one factor. We've seen impatience, bad decision making, poor coaching, poor player development, inconsistent direction alongside things outside of control, such as luck, market realities, etc.

    Consistent fan support is a strength, not a weakness. And it is one of the reasons I remain optimistic that our franchises have the capacity to turn things around.

  14. #14
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    You're right that its a small sample size for Ujiri and Leiweke but how long has Rogers owned the Jays now? And how long has Nonis been the GM? The odds are stacked against these franchises and all the reasons you mentioned are valid.

    But you also have to change the culture and atmosphere at the games. The fans need to be held accountable too. Just because they pay money to watch the team play is not an excuse. If you want a winning team then get some passionate fans into the building!! I guarantee you that if you moved the Raptors to Montreal with the current roster the team would flourish!
    LEAFS, CHELSEA FC, RAPTORS, BLUE JAYS, COWBOYS

  15. #15
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    You're right that its a small sample size for Ujiri and Leiweke but how long has Rogers owned the Jays now? And how long has Nonis been the GM? The odds are stacked against these franchises and all the reasons you mentioned are valid.

    But you also have to change the culture and atmosphere at the games. The fans need to be held accountable too. Just because they pay money to watch the team play is not an excuse. If you want a winning team then get some passionate fans into the building!! I guarantee you that if you moved the Raptors to Montreal with the current roster the team would flourish in terms of wins!!

    There's a reason why Ujiri called out the fans at the Fan meeting before the season started. It is vital to the success of establishing a winning culture.
    Last edited by Mikeleafs; 12-05-2013 at 03:58 PM.
    LEAFS, CHELSEA FC, RAPTORS, BLUE JAYS, COWBOYS

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