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  1. #1
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    LOL, of COURSE it's the coaching!

    Okay, I have been reading a number of posts regarding whether or not our current losing streak is caused by the players or the coaches. First of all, to think that it isn't some combination of the two is foolish, so no one should be arguing one to the exclusion of the other. However, I am completely shocked at some of the things being said it terms of how misguided the sources are. The one thing I wanted to concentrate on is the value of a good HC.

    In the NFL, the talent is largely comparable. This year, the Jets beat the Saints and Tampa Bay completely outplayed Seattle on the road and very nearly pulled off the upset, which would have been unthinkable. Most teams, even elite teams, have holes on their rosters. What the good organizations are able to do is minimize and overcome their shortcomings. In other words, they have a system that works for them and they play to their strengths. Unfortunately for us, we are still in the stages of developing our system and creating an identity, and this takes guidance. I think we have the guidance in McKenzie as things evolve. We have the makings of a power running team with with Jennings, a couple of large blocking receivers (definitely NOT plugging Moore and Ford here!), a healthy Murray and Watson and the addition of a power OG. The next step in the process is to have sound guidance on the field, and I don't know that we have that right now.

    Look, I have absolutely no agenda other than wanting the Raiders to get better and I am willing to show the patience necessary to allow that to happen without blowing a gasket. However, I am to the point where I am concerned that the competence at the HC position is officially lacking. Again, go back to idea that the talent is relative in the NFL. Last year's team truly had some poor talent and we saw that with the players that were let go. Not only were they not missed by us, most of them that actually made a roster have failed to make and impact on other teams. Mike Mitchell and Brandon Myers have done well out of that lot. People thought that Mike Mitchell couldn't play, but he is an intergral part of the league's best defense in terms of points allows because he was finally played to his strengths and his weaknesses were minimized by how he is being used as well as the talent around him. Right now, we have enough talent to be better than a 4-8 team. Last year's team got 4 wins. The defense is allowing two less points a game this year as compared to last and the offense is scoring nearly two more points a game, even with our QB position in flux!

    So what's the problem? Coaching. I Judge Dennis Allen on nothing but his merits. I don't care that he was never a HC before because there plenty examples of coordinators moving to up to HC and doing fine. I don't care about him not getting upset on the sidelines or showing enough emotion to satisfy some. I don't care that he was Bronco or that his hair is black or that he looks like he's in his late twenties. None of that matters to me. Dennis Allen has gottent the first part right. By all accounts, he appears to be well respected by the players. He runs a tight ship, he's good spokesman for the team and the team under him plays hard. Those are minimal expectations, but I wanted to point those things out because many of our previous HCs have not had those basic qualities as sad as it is to say. But that's where my compliments end.

    Dennis Allen does not seem to have a vision for this team and he has failed to put his "stamp" on the team other than the team not looking like a circus. He makes some corrections after the fact, but I don't see him pointing the team in any sort of direction. Allen's management of the clock has been poor. I don't see him making contributions on offense. Perhaps he does not have the knowledge, but he is a former defensive coordinator. It is very concerning to me that I don't see him making contributions on defense! I just do not see ANY adjustments on defense being made when they need to be made. As a head coach, you are the overseer of all that is going on around you and you are responsible for how the team performs. While it's important not to micro manage, you have to be comfortable enough to lead from your position and you can't worry about stepping on toes. Furthermore, with respect to the defense, Allen is working with a veteran group capable of accepting instruction and executing. Why are we seeing the same outside deep ball to Jacoby Ford that has not worked for two years? Why are we seeing the inexplicable soft soft zone play in untimely situations? Why are we seeing conservative offense for the better part of a half of football? Dennis Allen does not strike me as a stupid guy by any stretch, so the only explanation that makes sense to me is that Dennis Allen is not comfortable coaching the coaches. If you can't do that, they you are a HC in name only. That's my two cents.
    Last edited by Pillage Idiot; 12-02-2013 at 04:44 PM.

  2. #2
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    Awesome.

    Feel free to cite examples of mismanagement, poor preparation and a lack of leadership.

  3. #3
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    This team doesn't have a single impact player. Not easy to coach. Houston is close but doesn't finish plays he should. Woodson isn't what he was but playing great for his age. After this season the raiders will be back.


    Yall let me slip?!?!

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pillage Idiot View Post
    Okay, I have been reading a number of posts regarding whether or not our current losing streak is caused by the players or the coaches. First of all, to think that it isn't some combination of the two is foolish, so no one should be arguing one to the exclusion of the other. However, I am completely shocked at some of the things being said it terms of how misguided the sources are. The one thing I wanted to concentrate on is the value of a good HC.

    In the NFL, the talent is largely comparable. This year, the Jets beat the Saints and Tampa Bay completely outplayed Seattle on the road and very nearly pulled off the upset, which would have been unthinkable. Most teams, even elite teams, have holes on their rosters. What the good organizations are able to do is minimize and overcome their shortcomings. In other words, they have a system that works for them and they play to their strengths. Unfortunately for us, we are still in the stages of developing our system and creating an identity, and this takes guidance. I think we have the guidance in McKenzie as things evolve. We have the makings of a power running team with with Jennings, a couple of large blocking receivers (definitely NOT plugging Moore and Ford here!), a healthy Murray and Watson and the addition of a power OG. The next step in the process is to have sound guidance on the field, and I don't know that we have that right now.

    Look, I have absolutely no agenda other than wanting the Raiders to get better and I am willing to show the patience necessary to allow that to happen without blowing a gasket. However, I am to the point where I am concerned that the competence at the HC position is officially lacking. Again, go back to idea that the talent is relative in the NFL. Last year's team truly had some poor talent and we saw that with the players that were let go. Not only were they not missed by us, most of them that actually made a roster have failed to make and impact on other teams. Mike Mitchell and Brandon Myers have done well out of that lot. People thought that Mike Mitchell couldn't play, but he is an intergral part of the league's best defense in terms of points allows because he was finally played to his strengths and his weaknesses were minimized by how he is being used as well as the talent around him. Right now, we have enough talent to be better than a 4-8 team. Last year's team got 4 wins. The defense is allowing two less points a game this year as compared to last and the offense is scoring nearly two more points a game, even with our QB position in flux!

    So what's the problem? Coaching. I Judge Dennis Allen on nothing but his merits. I don't care that he was never a HC before because there plenty examples of coordinators moving to up to HC and doing fine. I don't care about him not getting upset on the sidelines or showing enough emotion to satisfy some. I don't care that he was Bronco or that his hair is black or that he looks like he's in his late twenties. None of that matters to me. Dennis Allen has gottent the first part right. By all accounts, he appears to be well respected by the players. He runs a tight ship, he's good spokesman for the team and the team under him plays hard. Those are minimal expectations, but I wanted to point those things out because many of our previous HCs have not had those basic qualities as sad as it is to say. But that's where my compliments end.

    Dennis Allen does not seem to have a vision for this team and he has failed to put his "stamp" on the team other than the team not looking like a circus. He makes some corrections after the fact, but I don't see him pointing the team in any sort of direction. Allen's management of the clock has been poor. I don't see him making contributions on offense. Perhaps he does not have the knowledge, but he is a former defensive coordinator. It is very concerning to me that I don't see him making contributions on defense! I just do not see ANY adjustments on defense being made when they need to be made. As a head coach, you are the overseer of all that is going on around you and you are responsible for how the team performs. While it's important not to micro manage, you have to be comfortable enough to lead from your position and you can't worry about stepping on toes. Furthermore, with respect to the defense, Allen is working with a veteran group capable of accepting instruction and executing. Why are we seeing the same outside deep ball to Jacoby Ford that has not worked for two years? Why are we seeing the inexplicable soft soft zone play in untimely situations? Why are we seeing conservative offense for the better part of a half of football? Dennis Allen does not strike me as a stupid guy by any stretch, so the only explanation that makes sense to me is that Dennis Allen is not comfortable coaching the coaches. If you can't do that, they you are a HC in name only. That's my two cents.
    I agree epset i put more blame on olson for the conservative play calling.With that said this team lacks talent,talent which can be attainable next year.DA,should stay for at least one more year.Lets see how we Finish the season.Da just gets one more year.

  5. #5
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    I give serious consideration to superior opposing personnel and depth in these second half regressions. To an extent, the best that can be hoped with coaching is placing the team in a position to win. It could easily be argued the coaching has done just that in nearly every game. It isn't implausible that the personnel is not in place to fulfill their end of that equation.

  6. #6
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    uhhh, yeah, thank for sharing...

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by stephkyle7 View Post
    uhhh, yeah, thank for sharing...
    Great contribution to the thread.. Thanks for coming out

  8. #8
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    I may be alone in this but I am suprisingly optomistic. I feel as though we may have found a young QB worth grooming. I also like the fact that we have been in almost every game down to the wire with the exception of maybe Philly and Denver. With the sheer capital we have to bring in lots and I do mean lots of new players plus a percieved high draft rotation we should be in contention next season. Nobody in their right mind thought it was going to be our year this year, but I honestly like and am excitied to see this franchise a year from today

  9. #9
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    I disagree with just about everything you said Pillage. Dennis Allen has put his stamp on this team. He has changed the culture in a big way. Penalties are way down from the heyday of Hubert and the record breaking penalties.

    The defense is light years ahead once again when the great Hubert was in town.

    Since Allen has taken over the Raiders play hard every game, they don't quit and the penalties are way down. A head coach can only do so much with the talent Dennis Allen has had to work with. Not even Belicheck could make the playoffs with this group. A coach can only do so much. The team also has to have talent and playmakers.

  10. #10
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    Charles Woodsen has said he likes the direction this team is going....the fact that he's on the field and he's played for a championship team tells me if we stay the course it will get better. If you can guarantee me that the next coach will get us a winning record I'm on board but we all know that's not possible ...and don't bring up Reid, they already had most of the pieces they just needed a QB. Like I said guarantee me a winning season and I'm good with getting rid of Allen.

  11. #11
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    This team is so much better than last year, and the year before. They've lost a lot of close games. That can be fixed, but not overnight. Before the season began, how many of you thought they would win 4 games? It's disappointing that they're so close in most of these games. Maybe the injuries hurt too. I think they'll be fine. Mc Gloin is worth waiting for. I have to admit that I am surprised/impressed in his ability. Within the limits of his playing time, he has outdone Pryor....and I like Pryor.

  12. #12
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    I was right there with you when you wrote about how coaching and talent are both responsible for wins and losses...but then you lost me. All I know is that Mac, DA and Olsen will all be back next season, so the posts calling for DA's head are extremely premature. Having said that, the upcoming offseason is likely the most important one we have seen in a decade. Draft well and spend smart and we'll continue to improve. Screw it up and we'll be lousy for another 5 years. Just remember, it can always be worse. How would you like to be a Jets fan, having drafted your 2nd "franchise" QB in 6 years and still suck? Or maybe the Browns, who spent a lot in FA to field a good defense, only to get lit up at home by Jacksonville? There's always Houston, who went from contender to doormat in 2 seasons.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maxfly View Post
    Charles Woodsen has said he likes the direction this team is going....the fact that he's on the field and he's played for a championship team tells me if we stay the course it will get better. If you can guarantee me that the next coach will get us a winning record I'm on board but we all know that's not possible ...and don't bring up Reid, they already had most of the pieces they just needed a QB. Like I said guarantee me a winning season and I'm good with getting rid of Allen.
    Max, while I agree with most of your post, I doubt you take players statements to the media seriously.

    They're not going to speak openly about their coach, in a negative light, especially on a one-year contract.

  14. #14
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    i don't think knute rockne could get much more out of this group. the talent level isn't on the roster. (but at least we have football players now instead of athletes)

    you have to let reggie finish what he started if that means keeping Allen let him roll with his plan.

    I'm interested to see what they will do with the 70 million…will reggie keep it tight or will mark davis desperate to climb out of his father's shadow want to get involved and start throwing around bags of money.

  15. #15
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    The absolute destruction of the team after halftime says it all. The coaches fail to make adjustments and fail to get the team ready after the half. The coaches decide to go ultra conservative with the smallest lead every single time. That explains itself.

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