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  1. #1
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    Has the Yankees Policy of Almost Always Never Giving Contract Extensions Hurt Them?

    You see it every time. Teams always sign their players to team friendly deals avoiding arbitration years and adding a team option or two.

    The Player gets financial security.

    The team gets to control that player at a reasonable cost.

    The Team gets a "team friendly" contract, as long as the player maintains the same level of performance or improves.

    Unless its an exceptional player who requires an exception to their stupid policy of waiting until the player's contract expires (Cano), the Yankees ALWAYS wait.

    I realize the player can get injured anytime during an extension but have you ever considered that the player can get injured anytime AFTER getting a ridiculous contract because 29 other teams have a chance to get into a bidding war then you are forced to overpay? It just doesn't make sense.


    The Yankees always never negotiate contract extensions, which is probably the 2nd biggest thing that bothers me about them (The first being their scouting department; not Brian Cashman personally but the scouts.)

    I'm not even asking us to hand out a $200M+ contract extension like the Reds gave to Joey Votto or the $90M extension the Giants gave to Pence a few weeks before he hit FA. I'm talking about extensions that buy out arbitration years, and are often worth $10M at minimum and $50M at most. It would just be nice if they extended promising players, and we have a chance to watch them in pinstripes a long time, instead of worrying about them leaving the Yankees when they become a FA, or overpaying them because 29 other teams have a chance to get into a bidding war.

    I will later include a list of the most recent contract extensions. Do you consider any of them "bad contracts?"

    Players I wish they would extend:

    Ivan Nova
    Brett Gardner (Even though I'm no Brett Gardner Fan, all it takes is one 50 SB season and he's getting a contract similar to Ellsbury. I think he's really close to Bourn territory too. )
    Last edited by xabial; 11-08-2013 at 01:45 PM.

  2. #2
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    I agree. We can't try to be frugal, assuming we're calling 189 million frugal, and then refuse to do things that seemingly every other team in baseball does. Case in point, Cano. If we'd offered him an extension 2 years ago, we may not be staring down a bidding war with the rest of baseball. We probably could have saved money per season and possibly avoided having him locked up until he's 38 or so. I do not see any way NY's extension policy doesn't hurt them.

  3. #3
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    The extension policy doesn't make sense in light of the fact that the other teams all do this now. Nova, Gardner, and Robertson are guys who should be considered for extensions. Particularly Robertson, because if proves himself to be a successful closer in 2014, he will be a lot more expensive next off season than he is now with no record of success as a closer.
    <a href=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/29/Ichiro_Suzuki_on_August_1%2C_2012.jpg/240px-Ichiro_Suzuki_on_August_1%2C_2012.jpg target=_blank>http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi..._1%2C_2012.jpg</a>

    BA: .269 HR: ONE! RBI: 14 SB: 6 AGE: 40

  4. #4
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    Yes, it hurts the team and is a ridiculous rule that is as dumb as the "a mustache is professional but not a well groomed beard."

    Old stupid Yankee rules that need to get the boot.

    Masahiro Tanaka

    11-1| 99.2 IP| 10.20 K/9| 1.44 BB/9| 0.90 HR/9| 1.99 ERA| 2.70 FIP| 2.32 xFIP| 2.9 fWAR

  5. #5
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    Yes

  6. #6
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    As nice as what you point out says, the Yanks had bought out Cano's arbitration years.. Don't think so? Look up how many times Robbie was in arbitration... that would be zero...

    Also, 2-3 years ago, Robbie's agent wanted to RE-NEGOTIATE his last two years (team options). The Yanks refused .. Why?

    His agent was Scott Boras. Mr. Boras does not give discounts for any reason. None, zip, zilch, nada...He wanted to re-negotitate because he wanted the options thrown out because they were not to a.) he didn't negotiate that contract so he go nothing from them (he wanted a new deal so he could collect $$$ for himself).. and B. he felt that robbie was underpaid (oh yea, I will agree with SB on that one)...

    So, as nice as your logic sounds, when it comes to Robbie.. sorry to say, you missed that boat. The yanks were smart in turning SB away at that time.

    Now, Gardner and Robertson.. they are arbitration eligible and not under contract... if they give them more than a 1 year deal... They would also disprove your point as well.. if they just give the 1 year contract deal... well, foolish.

    The one thing that the Yanks have going for them is that they do have the resources to out-bid anyone if they want the player... by letting the rest of the league set the price, they keep good will with the player... but they also don't want to set a precident for other players to follow by allowing them to re-negotiate deals... they don't/won't do that...and I don't blame them... how many teams/leagues have players hold out because they want to re-negotiate a deal... they refuse to go there...

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by bfrap View Post
    As nice as what you point out says, the Yanks had bought out Cano's arbitration years.. Don't think so? Look up how many times Robbie was in arbitration... that would be zero...

    Also, 2-3 years ago, Robbie's agent wanted to RE-NEGOTIATE his last two years (team options). The Yanks refused .. Why?

    His agent was Scott Boras. Mr. Boras does not give discounts for any reason. None, zip, zilch, nada...He wanted to re-negotitate because he wanted the options thrown out because they were not to a.) he didn't negotiate that contract so he go nothing from them (he wanted a new deal so he could collect $$$ for himself).. and B. he felt that robbie was underpaid (oh yea, I will agree with SB on that one)...

    So, as nice as your logic sounds, when it comes to Robbie.. sorry to say, you missed that boat. The yanks were smart in turning SB away at that time.

    Now, Gardner and Robertson.. they are arbitration eligible and not under contract... if they give them more than a 1 year deal... They would also disprove your point as well.. if they just give the 1 year contract deal... well, foolish.

    The one thing that the Yanks have going for them is that they do have the resources to out-bid anyone if they want the player... by letting the rest of the league set the price, they keep good will with the player... but they also don't want to set a precident for other players to follow by allowing them to re-negotiate deals... they don't/won't do that...and I don't blame them... how many teams/leagues have players hold out because they want to re-negotiate a deal... they refuse to go there...
    Whats your point?

    You make it sound like its nothing.... THEY RARELY EVEN GIVE EXTENSIONS BUY OUT ARB YEARS!!!! Yes Robby was the last player they made an extension with, and they STILL didn't buy out any FA years but having Scott Boras as his agent doesn't change anything regarding that stupid policy. The Yankees never give players contract extensions, and always wait until their contract expires which is beyond ******** in this day and age.

    I wouldn't be surprised if the only two players given contract extensions the past ten years were Derek jeter, and Robinson Cano.

    And knowing Boras he would have probably asked for a "Joey Votto" type $225M extension considering Cano plays a more valuable position. I'm glad they turned him away. That's not the type of "extension" that helps any team. Most I would have given Cano to rework his last two team options was a Buster Posey type extension but we sure as hell know that wasn't going to happen with SB as his agent.
    Last edited by xabial; 11-08-2013 at 05:35 PM.

  8. #8
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    Moving forward, the policy itself runs counter to the desire to maintain a smaller payroll. It should have been forgone a good time ago, and will now have to be if those goals are attempted.

  9. #9
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    while i agree its dumb you can state the 189 as a reason they should have gotten rid of that because they had no way of knowing what the new CBA was going to be

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by xabial View Post
    Whats your point?

    You make it sound like its nothing.... THEY RARELY EVEN GIVE EXTENSIONS BUY OUT ARB YEARS!!!! Yes Robby was the last player they made an extension with, and they STILL didn't buy out any FA years but having Scott Boras as his agent doesn't change anything regarding that stupid policy. The Yankees never give players contract extensions, and always wait until their contract expires which is beyond ******** in this day and age.

    I wouldn't be surprised if the only two players given contract extensions the past ten years were Derek jeter, and Robinson Cano.

    And knowing Boras he would have probably asked for a "Joey Votto" type $225M extension considering Cano plays a more valuable position. I'm glad they turned him away. That's not the type of "extension" that helps any team. Most I would have given Cano to rework his last two team options was a Buster Posey type extension but we sure as hell know that wasn't going to happen with SB as his agent.
    First of all... fact check before you make statements that make you look the fool...

    Do you realize how much service time Robbie has? If you did, you would realize that Robinson Cano has 8.153 years of service time in... That means, those option years WERE UFA years.

    Just before Robbie's 3rd year, they signed hime to a 4 year deal, with 2 option years... that were picked up.. becoming a 6 year deal... That means, they signed him through all of his arbitration years and his first 2 UFA years as well... What that means is... THEY DID WHAT YOU ARE PREACHING...

    and they also tried to extend him this year... but I think the news that came out at the all star break, that he's asking for $300 mil/10 years.. should have told you that the Yanks laughed and stepped away... because they aren't that dumb...

    So, in the case of Robinson Cano... what you are preaching..is exactly what they did do... so don't hold him up as the your poster child for why we should... they did.. and during extention talks.. his side put up numbers that got him laughed out of the room... those numbers not only where NOT a discount... they were in fact a mega premium... (personally, $150/10 years is a more realistic target of his worth...though I would never agree to more than 5 anyway)

    Lets face it though.. What you are preaching is difficult for the Yanks... a team with little in the way of home grown talent... hard to sign them through the the arbitration years.. when the Yanks didn't have them in those years.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by infernoscurse:27369203
    while i agree its dumb you can state the 189 as a reason they should have gotten rid of that because they had no way of knowing what the new CBA was going to be
    Yeah, you're right and I understand. I was attempting to make two different points and ended up making a single, ineffective one. I meant to suggest what should have been done previously now has to be.
    Last edited by Renz13; 11-08-2013 at 06:23 PM.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by bfrap View Post
    First of all... fact check before you make statements that make you look the fool...

    Do you realize how much service time Robbie has? If you did, you would realize that Robinson Cano has 8.153 years of service time in... That means, those option years WERE UFA years.

    Just before Robbie's 3rd year, they signed hime to a 4 year deal, with 2 option years... that were picked up.. becoming a 6 year deal... That means, they signed him through all of his arbitration years and his first 2 UFA years as well... What that means is... THEY DID WHAT YOU ARE PREACHING...

    and they also tried to extend him this year... but I think the news that came out at the all star break, that he's asking for $300 mil/10 years.. should have told you that the Yanks laughed and stepped away... because they aren't that dumb...

    So, in the case of Robinson Cano... what you are preaching..is exactly what they did do... so don't hold him up as the your poster child for why we should... they did.. and during extention talks.. his side put up numbers that got him laughed out of the room... those numbers not only where NOT a discount... they were in fact a mega premium... (personally, $150/10 years is a more realistic target of his worth...though I would never agree to more than 5 anyway)

    Lets face it though.. What you are preaching is difficult for the Yanks... a team with little in the way of home grown talent... hard to sign them through the the arbitration years.. when the Yanks didn't have them in those years.
    Cano is my poster child because they never do extensions, and he was the last person who was given an extension. That much is true no?

    As for my previous post, I didn't pull random information out of a hat. I simply misinterpreted your post.

    Whether or not Cano's extension bought out 2 years of FA or not still doesn't change my point:


    1) The Yankees rarely, if always never extend their own players, unless they are a "special exception" to their stupid wait until that players contract expires policy. Don't tell me you have to be a player of Robinson Cano's caliber to warrant an extension. That's ****ing ********.

    Lets face it though.. What you are preaching is difficult for the Yanks... a team with little in the way of home grown talent... hard to sign them through the the arbitration years.. when the Yanks didn't have them in those years.
    So your going to go with the "No one was worth extending argument?"

    Thats not true! There is absolutely no excuse, they haven't extended anyone other than Cano/Jeter the last ten years or so. Going year to year is ok in some situations, but not if it means doing it practically 99% of the time. Ian Kennedy (on a team friendly deal) would have still been traded. People forget team friendly contracts are VERY TRADEABLE even when that player struggles. Are you saying its the scouts faults, they NEVER extend their players?

    If the team has "very little of home grown talent" to the point where they extend only 2 players in 10 years then I don't know how Brian Cashman or the Scouts still have their jobs especially since most team friendly extensions rarely hold back a team financially.

    Blaming the Scoutng Department is Bailout. Everyone knows its because of their stupid policy.


    Now, Gardner and Robertson.. they are arbitration eligible and not under contract... if they give them more than a 1 year deal... They would also disprove your point as well.. if they just give the 1 year contract deal... well, foolish.
    Exactly the point I have been trying to emphasize all along. As a Yankee fan I really want it to happen and hope it happens but...... knowing the Yankees they won't do it, and then we will be competing wgiving an oppurtunity for 29 other teams to drive up the price the point of a Michael Bourn or a Jacoby Ellsbury type contract.. As stated earlier, unless you are Robinson Cano, or Derek Jeter they will wait until your contract expires. Its a stupid policy and you have to be a "special player" to warrant an extension by Yankee standards. Its Stupid.

    I think I speak for most yankee fans when I say Ivan Nova deserves an extension. As does David Robertson, and Brett Gardner, but knowing the Yankees all 3 will hit FA. And in the rare chance one of them does get extended, we probably won't see anther extension five to ten years! further proving my point.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by xabial View Post
    Cano is my poster child because they never do extensions, and he was the last person who was given an extension. That much is true no?

    As for my previous post, I didn't pull random information out of a hat. I simply misinterpreted your post.

    Whether or not Cano's extension bought out 2 years of FA or not still doesn't change my point:


    1) The Yankees rarely, if always never extend their own players, unless they are a "special exception" to their stupid wait until that players contract expires policy. Don't tell me you have to be a player of Robinson Cano's caliber to warrant an extension. That's ****ing ********.



    So your going to go with the "No one was worth extending argument?"

    Thats not true! There is absolutely no excuse, they haven't extended anyone other than Cano/Jeter the last ten years or so. Going year to year is ok in some situations, but not if it means doing it practically 99% of the time. Ian Kennedy (on a team friendly deal) would have still been traded. People forget team friendly contracts are VERY TRADEABLE even when that player struggles. Are you saying its the scouts faults, they NEVER extend their players?

    If the team has "very little of home grown talent" to the point where they extend only 2 players in 10 years then I don't know how Brian Cashman or the Scouts still have their jobs especially since most team friendly extensions rarely hold back a team financially.

    Blaming the Scoutng Department is Bailout. Everyone knows its because of their stupid policy.




    Exactly the point I have been trying to emphasize all along. As a Yankee fan I really want it to happen and hope it happens but...... knowing the Yankees they won't do it, and then we will be competing wgiving an oppurtunity for 29 other teams to drive up the price the point of a Michael Bourn or a Jacoby Ellsbury type contract.. As stated earlier, unless you are Robinson Cano, or Derek Jeter they will wait until your contract expires. Its a stupid policy and you have to be a "special player" to warrant an extension by Yankee standards. Its Stupid.

    I think I speak for most yankee fans when I say Ivan Nova deserves an extension. As does David Robertson, and Brett Gardner, but knowing the Yankees all 3 will hit FA. And in the rare chance one of them does get extended, we probably won't see anther extension five to ten years! further proving my point.
    You were indicating that they should have done this with Robbie... the fact is, they did...

    Still, guys like Gardner and Robertson, it would be nice to extend them, and they have the chance now. will they go for more than 1 year? Will they get the option? (remember, it takes two to make a deal. If one side is not willing, its not happening)

    and the other part, yeah, the yanks have not had many worth killing themselves to extend. Would you have liked if they extended Phil or Joba? Yanks don't seem keyed to push hard to resign. and i don't blame them... but you do have to agree, outside of Robbie, they have not had much of a reason to press for extentions. Gardner spent last season hurt, you going to extend or make them prove their healthy?

    Your arguments have problems at this time. That's just a fact. Yes the Yanks have not made it a habit of negotiating before a contract is up, as a primary rule... but that is not a bad policy.. it keeps players from demanding things.... (or agents) and we have to remember.. . this is the Yankees... agents don't want to give them a discount.. other teams get them, but those teams also don't have deep pockets, so if you want to stay you may have to give them a discount... The yanks... they have deep pockets, why give them a discount. If they want a player back, they can afford to pay full price, so many feel they should..

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rylinkus View Post
    I agree. We can't try to be frugal, assuming we're calling 189 million frugal, and then refuse to do things that seemingly every other team in baseball does. Case in point, Cano. If we'd offered him an extension 2 years ago, we may not be staring down a bidding war with the rest of baseball. We probably could have saved money per season and possibly avoided having him locked up until he's 38 or so. I do not see any way NY's extension policy doesn't hurt them.
    To be fair.....a lot (if not all) of the posters on these boards were praising Cashman for nipping what was then viewed as blind, premature greed by Cano, in the bud two years ago.

    Cano and Boras threatened at that point to take the team full on into free agency when contractually eligible in the fall of 2013 if he did not get his way which made it seem like he was trying to intimidate them into an early payday at the time.

    For the record I backed and still back Cashman on that stance. As many, many others like to point out, hindsight is happenstance round here. We rolled the contractual dice and took a chance and Cano got the better of the deal, it happens.
    Last edited by sauronthepower; 11-09-2013 at 11:03 AM.


    And so, a new era begins.....

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by theslick1 View Post
    The extension policy doesn't make sense in light of the fact that the other teams all do this now. Nova, Gardner, and Robertson are guys who should be considered for extensions. Particularly Robertson, because if proves himself to be a successful closer in 2014, he will be a lot more expensive next off season than he is now with no record of success as a closer.
    I would certainly consider Robertson. Not nearly as high on Gardner (biased opinion of mine)


    And so, a new era begins.....

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