Like us on Facebook


Follow us on Twitter





View Poll Results: Where is the blame?

Voters
8. You may not vote on this poll
  • Forwards

    2 25.00%
  • Defence

    0 0%
  • Both Equally

    6 75.00%
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 16
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    488
    vCash
    1500

    Shot Differential- Who's to blame...Forwards or Defence?

    There was a recent posting on an article on the well-known fact that the Leaf give up way too many shots, and get out-shot every night.

    My question is this- Who's to blame in the shot differential night-in-night-out? Where should the attention-to-detail lay more on...forwards or defence?

    IMHO it's a combination of the forwards not shooting enough, and looking for the pretty play too much. They also don't back check as aggressively as they could. But I also think the D-men don't box out very well, and allow too many second chance opportunities...mainly because there are terrible at getting the puck out of the defensive zone. This has been an achilles for quite some time with the Leafs.

    Thoughts?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    703
    vCash
    1500
    i think its a possession issue, we have to establish a better cycle game and keep the puck in the opposing teams end.
    I could care less if we shoot more because we are getting our chances and scoring by waiting for the "pretty play" the problem is that by not establishing possession we allow them to have possession and take those shots.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    4,937
    vCash
    1500
    [QUOTE=Borough;27329344]i think its a possession issue, we have to establish a better cycle game and keep the puck in the opposing teams end.
    I could care less if we shoot more because we are getting our chances and scoring by waiting for the "pretty play" the problem is that by not establishing possession we allow them to have possession and take those shots.[/QUOTE

    This. It's not about the shot differential, it's time on attack. The Leafs spend way too much time in their own end. The fact that' we are 15 games in and it has been an issue every game is very concerning.
    “It’s about winning,” Stoudemire said. “You win, you’re going to get on national TV. Simple. In Phoenix, we won — Western Conference finals three, four years, playoffs every year. We won. If you don’t win, nobody really wants to see you.”

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Woodstock
    Posts
    2,280
    vCash
    500
    Exactly, Leafs could allow 60 for all I care because they keep chances out of the high scoring area's. But the turnovers really have to stop if this team hopes to go anywhere beyond the first round.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Nova Scotia, Canada
    Posts
    6,506
    vCash
    1500
    No team looks good when they get hemmed in their own zone. But we look like crap and have for a while in our own end. Then we take a penalty and play like animals. Once we clean it up we'll be tough.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    3,067
    vCash
    1500
    I see a trade for a top defenseman. I think that'd be the best way to improve this team.
    As bad as we are in our own zone, they're not that good in the other teams zone either. This teams a rush team right now and that is too easy for good teams to shut down. Rush teams don't succeed in the playoffs.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    487
    vCash
    1500
    The correct answer is "System"
    Its a word you hear all the time when coaches change but most people dont actually understand what they are.
    Carlyles defensive zone system brings the wingers way down and into the middle of the ice. They allow a lot of shots from 60 feet and from bad angles. I can live with that but what the system also gives up is posession. When a defencemen does win a battle or find a rebound nobody is free for an outlet pass. So thats when a hard wrap around the boards happens. The other teams defence see's the situtation and pinches for a 50/50 puck. They actually win more than 50% of the time because of our wingers.
    Kessel- Although fast at top speed does not have a quick first step and is not a battler on the boards
    JVR- The system works for him
    Lupul- Again not the lightest feet but he can make it work and is great at short passes
    Raymond- Quick but soft
    Kulemin- great position but not quick
    Clarkson- Battler but a sack of bricks for a brain.
    Although it does backfire and create more time in the defensive end the one benefit this "system" does create is odd man rushes. We get our fair share of 2 on 1's because of that 50/50 pinch gone wrong and when you have finishers like kessel JVR Kadri and Lupul those are always nice.
    Rarely do you see our transition from defence to offence go seamlessly with 3 crisp passes and enter the zone.

    An offensive system doesnt work with this team because all the lines are so different. Kessel will never work in a cycle game because he doesnt go beneath the goal line. This teams offensive system is called "create something" or hope for a 2 on 1 from the pinch.

    Im not sure I like the system because it makes for some long defensive stretches and tense moments but it does its job and gets our skilled guys some open ice and they take advantage of it. We have players that only need 1 shot to score.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Nova Scotia, Canada
    Posts
    6,506
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by rickyk13 View Post
    The correct answer is "System"
    Its a word you hear all the time when coaches change but most people dont actually understand what they are.
    Carlyles defensive zone system brings the wingers way down and into the middle of the ice. They allow a lot of shots from 60 feet and from bad angles. I can live with that but what the system also gives up is posession. When a defencemen does win a battle or find a rebound nobody is free for an outlet pass. So thats when a hard wrap around the boards happens. The other teams defence see's the situtation and pinches for a 50/50 puck. They actually win more than 50% of the time because of our wingers.
    Kessel- Although fast at top speed does not have a quick first step and is not a battler on the boards
    JVR- The system works for him
    Lupul- Again not the lightest feet but he can make it work and is great at short passes
    Raymond- Quick but soft
    Kulemin- great position but not quick
    Clarkson- Battler but a sack of bricks for a brain.
    Although it does backfire and create more time in the defensive end the one benefit this "system" does create is odd man rushes. We get our fair share of 2 on 1's because of that 50/50 pinch gone wrong and when you have finishers like kessel JVR Kadri and Lupul those are always nice.
    Rarely do you see our transition from defence to offence go seamlessly with 3 crisp passes and enter the zone.

    An offensive system doesnt work with this team because all the lines are so different. Kessel will never work in a cycle game because he doesnt go beneath the goal line. This teams offensive system is called "create something" or hope for a 2 on 1 from the pinch.

    Im not sure I like the system because it makes for some long defensive stretches and tense moments but it does its job and gets our skilled guys some open ice and they take advantage of it. We have players that only need 1 shot to score.
    Just a sick post. Love it.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Leafs
    Posts
    11,947
    vCash
    500
    Just had a post deleted so i won't go too deep into this again.

    Borough, you had a great post. Basically all there is too it.

    But one problem i see is that the Leafs change very badly. It's like they dump it in and leave for a change every time. Great teams always change on the fly while sustaining pressure.

    Team needs better board play. Grabo was good at that but Clarkson is better (so we're better off there). Kulemin is good too, as is Jvr. So the Leafs should be good along the boards when everyone gets comfortable and in mid-season form.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Leafs
    Posts
    11,947
    vCash
    500
    People shouldn't look at the shot differential, that's like looking at +/- to see who is playing better defense.

    Look at shot distance. Hard to find now, but one game take a trip to TSN gametracker and look a leaf game. You'll see the Leafs clearly get better shot opportunities.

    I'll try and post a link every period so you guys can see just how big a myth being out shot is.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    3,067
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by KingerSox View Post
    Just a sick post. Love it.
    Just destroyed my post lol

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    487
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Just destroyed my post lol
    Thanks.
    I just elaborated on what you said because people see this as an "all of a sudden" problem and dont realize its a calculated system. And it has been this way since Carlyle has taken over. They just dont notice when we win scoring 6 goals and 80% of them are because of odd man rushes or power plays. People like to be die hard fans who complain and argue but wont become actual students of the game.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Woodstock
    Posts
    2,280
    vCash
    500
    Quote Originally Posted by OptiMized View Post
    People shouldn't look at the shot differential, that's like looking at +/- to see who is playing better defense.

    Look at shot distance. Hard to find now, but one game take a trip to TSN gametracker and look a leaf game. You'll see the Leafs clearly get better shot opportunities.

    I'll try and post a link every period so you guys can see just how big a myth being out shot is.
    Bingo!

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Leafs
    Posts
    11,947
    vCash
    500
    Leafs by the numbers

    league shooters inside 20 feet:
    Shots: 3,901
    goals: 682
    percentage: 17 per cent

    leaf shooters from inside 20 feet:
    Shots: 124
    goals: 30
    percentage: 24 per cent

    opposing shooters inside 20 feet:
    Shots: 141
    goals: 18
    percentage: 13 per cent


    league-wide, 30 per cent of shots come from inside 20 feet. The leafs are holding the league to 25 per cent (141 of 553).
    league shooters from beyond 20 feet:
    Shots: 9,164
    goals: 528
    percentage: Six per cent

    leaf shooters from beyond 20 feet:
    Shots: 270
    goals: 19
    percentage: Seven per cent

    opposing shooters from beyond 20 feet:
    Shots: 412
    goals: 18
    percentage: Four per cent
    http://www.thestar.com/sports/leafs/...ood_news.html#


    tl;dr... Leafs score at a higher clip than league average and allow goals at a lower clip than league average. So shot differential is a pretty useless stat on it's own.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Woodstock
    Posts
    2,280
    vCash
    500
    ^ Thanks for posting! Shows how many useless shots get thrown on net every game. Just keep them out of the slot and we'll be fine.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •