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View Poll Results: Should we replace Spielman?

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  • No, he is great for the franchise.

    4 11.76%
  • No, he has earned enough respect to have a couple more years.

    17 50.00%
  • Yes, he has done well on some picks, but has also flamed on QBs, and that is inexcusable.

    5 14.71%
  • Yes, he is responsible for the personnel and coach staff that has us as bottom feeders.

    8 23.53%
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Thread: Fire Spielman

  1. #1
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    Fire Spielman

    Might not be a popular opinion, but I believe Spielman needs to go.

    He gets too much credit for being a draft genius. Captain Obvious drafted AP and Kalil at the top of the draft, but he has also drafted Ponder and TJoke as our "QBs of the future". He brought in Musgrave as the OC. He has ignored the head coaches opinion on personnel (bringing back Winfield, bringing in Freeman... and I dont care what he says, Frasier was told to play Freeman in NY when NO QB WOULD HAVE BEEN ABLE TO FUNCTION WITH 1.5 weeks of "prep" in a new playbook)... as a result... our team is one of the biggest jokes I have ever seen from a "what are they thinking over there" point of view.

    I hope he goes with the end of the season purge that is coming. I would love me some Lovie Smith (as our D coordinator)... Look at what Rivera is doing for Carolina!

    I am feeling more and more like this guy every day...

    http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-sh...5806--nfl.html
    Last edited by wrizzo; 10-26-2013 at 12:58 PM.


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  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrizzo View Post
    Might not be a popular opinion, but I believe Spielman needs to go.

    He gets too much credit for being a draft genius. Captain Obvious drafted AP and Kalil at the top of the draft, but he has also drafted Ponder and TJoke as our "QBs of the future". He brought in Musgrave as the OC. He has ignored the head coaches opinion on personnel (bringing back Winfield, bringing in Freeman... and I dont care what he says, Frasier was told to play Freeman in NY when NO QB WOULD HAVE BEEN ABLE TO FUNCTION WITH 1.5 weeks of "prep" in a new playbook)... as a result... our team is one of the biggest jokes I have ever seen from a "what are they thinking over there" point of view.

    I hope he goes with the end of the season purge that is coming. I would love me some Lovie Smith (as our D coordinator)... Look at what Rivera is doing for Carolina!

    I am feeling more and more like this guy every day...

    http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-sh...5806--nfl.html
    I just would like to discuss some of your points further because I think they don't delve into the deeper questions.

    1.) Drafting AP: This was by no means an obvious choice. We needed a QB and opted for the talented RB with injury concerns instead of going Brady Quinn. It ended up being the right choice obviously but it was by no means an easy decision.

    2.) Drafting Kalil: We didn't just draft him. We stole picks from the Browns to move down a spot in the draft which enabled us to trade back into the first for Harrison Smith. It was great draft board execution.

    3.) Drafting Ponder: Yes, this is probably his biggest blunder so far. It was a tough situation and he ended up making the wrong choice. But if you look at his track record since I think he has earned a mulligan. If you look at some of the most long-tenured GM's in the league even they have failed at drafting a QB 1 or more times. On your T-Jack perspective that was when we had the triangle of authority in place. Childress wanted T-Jack and has publicly stated he was the one who wanted to draft him. If you don't believe that I can find you the source.

    4.) Bringing in Musgrave: He didn't personally hire Musgrave. Frazier has sole authority over the coaching staff and hand-picked Musgrave. Here is a quote from ESPN "The Browns aggressively pursued Musgrave, attempting to lure him to Cleveland even while he was interviewing with new Vikings head coach Leslie Frazier, the sources said."

    5.) Personel decisions: This is probably where you can point some of the blame towards the GM. However, you can't take moves one by one. You need to look at the bigger picture. He successfully got more value out of Percy Harvin than anyone thought was possible. He then released Winfield who was set to have a cap hit of 7 million this season. That would have been a record for a player his age by the way. Without cutting Winfield we would have had to release Kevin Williams or restructure Jared Allen most likely. Otherwise we wouldn't have been able to fit our draft picks under the cap. I think if you are going to target Spielman you should just ask the question how he thought our secondary had enough talent to succeed.

    6.) For the record Frazier is the one who wanted to start Freeman. He has even said "I was looking for lightening in a bottle." It was a move of desperation in an attempt to salvage his job. Speilman may have put him in a bad position by giving him Freeman as an option.

    I am not trying to say Spielman is this picture perfect GM but he is taking a lot most for this teams underperformance than he should. Right now we are underperforming due to the coaching staff and their lack of talent evaluation and discipline. Everyone is upset and is looking at everyone trying to blame someone. Heck, someone even blamed the Wilf's at one point. I have no clue if we will keep Speilman or not after this season but I think it would be a huge mistake to let him go. You all think it is bad now, you don't even have a clue what we'd get in the next guy.

  3. #3
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    Spielman can't do the coaching too!

    We have talent that is his job and has done a good job.

    The biggest personel issue we have is QB like most teams that are losing. Also the hardest one to take care of.

  4. #4
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    ^ Some good points. I have been boiling about him since the ridiculous decision to bring in Freeman for the remainder of the year, after Cassel had just played well in London. move should never have happened. There was/is no way Freeman could learn the offense, while also having time with the #1's to develop timing, in the remaining time of the year... so all it did was take whatever confidence that Cassel had, and CLOBBER it. The players had just got a win, and had shouted Cassel out for his leadership and command. That is another QB issue.... and a colossal FAIL by Rick at the most important position and chemistry of the team.

    I remember the triangle of authority. I assumed (incorrectly) that Spielman had been in on the TJoke choice during those days. After it had been dissolved post Chilly, I assumed he assembled the coaching staff. Seemed to make sense considering how he has been shooting down LF on his personnel wishes, why would he care who LF wanted as coaches. It really pisses me off that Spielman goes against the head coach. LF didnt want Freeman, for the very reason I stated above. Additionally, if Winfield were still here, this is a ENTIRELY different D. Look at the games with vs w/o him late last year. Night and day.

    I do feel AP was the obvious choice. I watch a lot of college FB, and anyone who watched AP in college would have felt good about that pick. Rick rolls the dice on players with injury histories a lot (FA included). Most of them have not panned out. A lot of GMs roll the dice on guys with injury histories. If he had drafted Quinn... I would have shot him from the rafters. I think he is more responsible than LF for the current state of the Vikes, and that just the swing and miss on Ponder would do it, everything else not withstanding. We could have drafted him in the 2nd round. Good value on the swap with the Browns, but we could have put a different package together to come up and get Smith if we hadnt done that trade with them. Good value on Harvin trade... but I hated Harvin's attitude and wanted him out. Any competent GM would have made that move, not giving him credit for doing what needed to be done (though I would have held it against him had he not).
    Last edited by wrizzo; 10-26-2013 at 04:02 PM.


    "I yam sofa king we todd did" - Musgrave



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    The enemies gate is down

  5. #5
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    I think Spielman has done a solid job handling the draft for this team. He has been amazing when it comes to maneuvering his picks in the draft and moving up to get the players he wants. I still can't believe he convinced the Browns to trade up one spot to get Richardson. He has had trouble capitalizing on some picks out side of the first round though and drafted a dud in Ponder in the first but the draft is really a crap shoot. No matter how good you are at evaluating talent you will eventually make a mistake. Spielman was not the one who wanted to draft Tjack. That was all on Childress. Chilly thought he found the next Mcnabb in Tjack. Obviously he was wrong. Spielman was also not the one solely responsible for drafting AP. He did have a part in it but that was when he was sharing the responsibility of making personnel and draft decisions with Childress. As Mauer pointed out it wasn't an obvious choice either. This team needed a QB and AP was labeled as being injury prone. We also already had a very solid RB in Chester Taylor who was coming off of a career year.

    Also Spielman was not responsible for bringing in Musgrave. That was on Leslie Frazier. Frazier is in charge of assembling the coaching staff. If you ask me Frazier and his entire coaching staff are the ones that need to be fired.
    Last edited by VCU4LIFEGOVIKS; 10-26-2013 at 04:15 PM.


  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by VCU4LIFEGOVIKS View Post
    I think Spielman has done a solid job handling the draft for this team. He has been amazing when it comes to maneuvering his picks in the draft and moving up to get the players he wants. I still can't believe he convinced the Browns to trade up one spot to get Richardson. He has had trouble capitalizing on some picks out side of the first round though and drafted a dud in Ponder in the first but the draft is really a crap shoot. No matter how good you are at evaluating talent you will eventually make a mistake. Spielman was not the one who wanted to draft Tjack. That was all on Childress. Chilly thought he found the next Mcnabb in Tjack. Obviously he was wrong. Spielman was also not the one solely responsible for drafting AP. He did have a part in it but that was when he was sharing the responsibility of making personnel and draft decisions with Childress. As Mauer pointed out it wasn't an obvious choice either. This team needed a QB and AP was labeled as being injury prone. We also already had a very solid RB in Chester Taylor who was coming off of a career year.

    Also Spielman was not responsible for bringing in Musgrave. That was on Leslie Frazier. Frazier is in charge of assembling the coaching staff. If you ask me Frazier and his entire coaching staff are the ones that need to be fired.
    I think this sums everything up nicely. I also think everyone needs to take into consideration the major issues that can arise from changing GM's. It really leaves a lot of players in no mans lands and nobody feels safe. Look at what is happening in Cleveland right now. I think Spielman will get a few more years but we will change up the coaching staff. If we are still struggling we will probably change it up then.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by VCU4LIFEGOVIKS View Post
    Also Spielman was not responsible for bringing in Musgrave. That was on Leslie Frazier. Frazier is in charge of assembling the coaching staff. If you ask me Frazier and his entire coaching staff are the ones that need to be fired.
    I absolutely agree we need a new coaching staff. I think anyone watching the games would too. My point is that "crazy" Rick should not get a pass on all of this when things turn over. He put together our QB stable (3 D+'s). He put together the defensive backfield... choosing to give Winfield his walking papers. So he learned from Belichick that you can move around in a draft... I did too... can I be the GM?


    "I yam sofa king we todd did" - Musgrave



    WISH LIST:

    Win a SB before I die.


    The enemies gate is down

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrizzo View Post
    I absolutely agree we need a new coaching staff. I think anyone watching the games would too. My point is that "crazy" Rick should not get a pass on all of this when things turn over. He put together our QB stable (3 D+'s). He put together the defensive backfield... choosing to give Winfield his walking papers. So he learned from Belichick that you can move around in a draft... I did too... can I be the GM?
    There is a lot more to it than meets they eye when teams are trying to move around the draft. You can want to move but you need a partner to make a trade.

    I agree you need to look at our DB stable and question the depth. But we would have lost depth elsewhere in order to keep Winfield. Ultimately we need to find a long-term solution to the slot anyways so as much as it has hurt us it will help us in the future.

    I think a lot of us forget that last year was a complete outlier for this team. We have the talent to be successful but still are a few key pieces away from being a consistent playoff threat. Also, most young teams take a step back before returning to success.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrizzo View Post
    I absolutely agree we need a new coaching staff. I think anyone watching the games would too. My point is that "crazy" Rick should not get a pass on all of this when things turn over. He put together our QB stable (3 D+'s). He put together the defensive backfield... choosing to give Winfield his walking papers. So he learned from Belichick that you can move around in a draft... I did too... can I be the GM?
    I am not saying Rick should get a complete pass for this teams situation. He was a part of what has happened here. I don't think he should be fired though. I believe he has done more positive than negative for this team.

    I was sad when we cut Winfield. No one really knows what happened between Winfield and the Vikings. I have heard he wouldn't take the pay cut and I have also heard Rick didn't even try and negotiate with his agent to lower his salary for the season. Things I do know are he was going to be getting paid entirely too much money and the move freed up money to sign Greg Jennings and helped us sign our draft picks. Another thing I do know is that he was going to be cut from the Seahawks before he retired. The Seahawks have a great group of corners but if Winfield was still playing like he did last year he would not have been cut.


  10. #10
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    His draft record has been very impressive. People point to the Ponder pick but he was sort of forced into that situation by circumstance. He had to take a chance on a QB in a TERRIBLE QB draft. The only one that will probably be a long term franchise QB is Kaepernick.

    12 QBs were selected:
    1. Cam Newton (#1 overall - we never had a chance at him - may or may not be a true franchise QB.)
    2. Jake Locker (#8 overall - we could have traded up for him I suppose - but he's terrible)
    3. Blaine Gabbert (#10 overall - we could have traded up for him I suppose - but he might be the worst QB in the league)
    4. Christian Ponder - we took him. It was a reach. It's what happens when you draft for need. It's something Spielman had avoided in early rounds previously which is why he has such a good track record. He went away from that here and he missed. BUT, here are the QBs who went behind him:
    5. Andy Dalton - #35 overall - we could have had him, but he too would have been a reach at #12. He may or may not be a franchise QB. He doesn't look like an ideal guy to this point but certain has been better than Ponder.
    6. Colin Kaepernick - #36 overall - we could have had him, would have been a big reach at #12. Looks to have the most potential to develop into a franchise QB.
    7. Ryan Mallett - 3rd round, may or not be better but probably not.
    8. Ricky Stanzi - 5th round, is he still in the league?
    9. T.J. Yates - 5th round, had a good game last week but probably not a franchise QB.
    10. Nathan Enderle - 5th round, is he still in the league?
    11. Tyrod Taylor - 6th round, is he still in the league?
    12. Greg McElroy - 7th round, probably not a franchise QB.

    The moral of the story is for you to draft the best player available. When you reach, you get burned.
    Last edited by DiPasquale7; 10-26-2013 at 08:30 PM.

  11. #11
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    2007:
    1st: Adrian Peterson - Considered to be a contender for best RB of all time. I think he made the right choice.
    could have had - Patrick Willis, Marshawn Lynch, Darrelle Revis
    2nd: Sidney Rice - Pro-Bowl WR who just can't stay healthy. I think he made the right choice.
    could have had - LaMarr Woodley, Eric Wright, Ryan Kalil.
    3rd: Marcus McCauley - out of the league, but the 3rd round was pretty bad overall. Bad pick.
    could have had - James Jones, Marshall Yanda
    4th: Brian Robison - Solid DE in the league. Recently ranked 13 at the position by Pro Football Focus. Great pick.
    could have had - Paul Soliai, Jermon Bushrod, Dashon Goldson
    5th: Andre Allison - out of the league, but the 5th round was pretty bad overall. Bad pick.
    could have had - Brent Celek, Corey Graham, William Gay
    6th: Rufus Alexander out of the league, pretty bad 6th round. Bad pick.
    could have had - Nick Folk, Mason Crosby, Desmond Bishop
    7th: Tyler Thigpen - decent packup QB. I actually really like him. He just never got a chance anywhere. Fine pick.
    could have had - no one
    7th: Chandler Williams - out of the league. Bad pick.
    could have had - Ahmad Bradshaw, Jason Snelling

    Overall a pretty great draft IMO. Got a rookie of the year and MVP in AP. A WR with massive potential who just can't stay healthy. A great DE who's been solid for us for years. Sure he missed on a few but that's the case with every draft. It would have been nice to get Yanda in the 3rd or Gay in the 5th, but there weren't many good players taken aside from them in those rounds anyway.

    Note: I'll do more years later. Just getting lazy now. If anyone else wants to do this for other rounds feel free to chip in! We can also break down FA acquisitions if anyone is inclined.

  12. #12
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    He has done far more good than bad and just needs to find us a QB that can allow AP and our Rushing attack some breathing room then we are as competitive as anyone.

  13. #13
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    Speilman needs an extension. Fired? Hell no. He has made great draft picks but made a boo boo by drafting Ponder. People make mistakes. Its like a guy saying I BANGED ALL BEAUTIFUL WOMEN ALL MY LIFE AND NEVER BANGED AN UGLY CHICK. YOU GET MY DRIFT DONT YOU FELLAS? WITHOUT SPEILMAN WE WOULD BE SCREWED

  14. #14
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    I am thinking people here are very gun shy,,,yea things are bad right now and our Coaches are across the board on the bottom of every Coaching list there is,,HC, OC, DC, and ST are all going to need to go in my opinion. We have talent but we need coaching or we are just wasting AP, Allen, Greenway, Kyle, Greg J, Patterson, Kalil, K-Will, Everson, Robison, and whom ever's time here...

  15. #15
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    Speilman shows absolutly no loyalty towards his players, and his FA decisions are terrible. Those are the two biggest reasons he needs to go. Also why the hell was Robison the first DE to get a new deal? He is the worst out of the three. Again a bad decision. He makes a lot of those.
    Hey coach. Do you have ANY idea what you are doing?
    Thats what I thought.

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