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  1. #1
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    When will the Ike Davis experiment end?

    How can they defend keeping Byrd to remain competitive and yet continue to bat Ike in the middle of that order. It's bad enough they have two automatic outs at SS and C most nights.

    Ike is not the answer at first, and right now I'd rather see just about anyone out there in his spot. Send him to the minors to see if he can find himself. Satin was hitting great until Ike came back from being "fixed".

    I've had enough with this guy, time to see what you got in other potential options in Satin and Flores. Hell I'd rather see Dykstra, Duda or Lutz right now.

  2. #2
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    Satin has regressed recently and is not an everyday 1st baseman and Flores doesn't have the power for 1st base long term.

    Duda has been awful this year with RISP this season but will probably take back 1st base when he comes off injury.

    Ike doesn't have a lot of time left to start showing something. Flores will be up in September and the aforementioned Duda will be back soon.

    I wouldn't expect Ike to man the position much longer if he doesn't start to hit and he won't be back next year.
    Last edited by metswon69; 07-31-2013 at 12:03 AM.

  3. #3
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    Buck has been significantly better at the plate though I do understand your point.

    Ike is done. I don't see a reason to keep starting him or defending him anymore, I'm tired of seeing failed at bats in crucial situations. I'd trade him for a struggling player or equal value but there aren't many players that fit the criteria.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyblazer11235 View Post
    How can they defend keeping Byrd to remain competitive and yet continue to bat Ike in the middle of that order. It's bad enough they have two automatic outs at SS and C most nights.

    Ike is not the answer at first, and right now I'd rather see just about anyone out there in his spot. Send him to the minors to see if he can find himself. Satin was hitting great until Ike came back from being "fixed".

    I've had enough with this guy, time to see what you got in other potential options in Satin and Flores. Hell I'd rather see Dykstra, Duda or Lutz right now.
    I'll let Sandy know that you've had enough of Ike, and I'm sure he'll respond accordingly...oh look, he responded accordingly...he did nothing.


    Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    Satin has regressed recently and is not an everyday 1st baseman and Flores doesn't have the power for 1st base long term.

    Duda has been awful this year with RISP this season but will probably take back 1st base when he comes off injury.

    Ike doesn't have a lot of time left to start showing something. Flores will be up in September and the aforementioned Duda will be back soon.

    I wouldn't expect Ike to man the position much longer if he doesn't start to hit and he won't be back next year.
    Cooler heads always prevail.


    Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.
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  6. #6
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    Flores needs more time at 1B...

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    Satin has regressed recently and is not an everyday 1st baseman and Flores doesn't have the power for 1st base long term.

    Satin only started regressing when he was taken out of the lineup full time. Look at how much better Lagares started doing once he got regular ABs.

    And why doesn't Flores have enough power for 1st long term? He has been an extra base machine most of his career, and we don't necessarily need a HR hitter with the ballpark. Plus he's still only 21 years old! Power could come later.

    Anything is better then watching Ike kill rallies every night. It's a lose/lose right now. He keeps up his poor performance and they have another hole to plug in the off season and won't know if they have the answer internally. He starts to hit then next year we go into it with a huge ? regardless.

    I'll take option B to waiting for Ike and his potential 30 homers.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyblazer11235 View Post
    Satin only started regressing when he was taken out of the lineup full time. Look at how much better Lagares started doing once he got regular ABs.

    And why doesn't Flores have enough power for 1st long term? He has been an extra base machine most of his career, and we don't necessarily need a HR hitter with the ballpark. Plus he's still only 21 years old! Power could come later.

    Anything is better then watching Ike kill rallies every night. It's a lose/lose right now. He keeps up his poor performance and they have another hole to plug in the off season and won't know if they have the answer internally. He starts to hit then next year we go into it with a huge ? regardless.

    I'll take option B to waiting for Ike and his potential 30 homers.
    Satin started to regress when he got more ABs, saw his second time through the league, and teams developed a more advanced scouting report on him. That happens. There is a reason why a guy is in the minor leagues till he is 28 years old. 1st base is traditionally an offensive position that has a power bat playing there. Either that or you need to be a Keith Hernandez type with the glove. Satin is neither of those things.

    The average home run total for first baseman last year was 24 homers. Flores has never really profiled as a power prospect. He's got a good hit tool but he doesn't walk a ton and his OBP will most likely be fueled by his batting average. Take the PCL stats with a grain of salt to some extent. Even in Vegas, he is only averaging a home run once every 28 ABs. Flores is best served at 2nd base given his offense helps his positional value. That or he will become a trade chip.

    Unless Ike hits 20 home runs over his next 50+ games, don't expect him to be back next year, period. He is due for a large arbitration increase and they have Duda. That said, i would like them to pursue Morales or Hart to play 1st base given the added flexibility we should receive non tendering Ike.
    Last edited by metswon69; 07-31-2013 at 12:54 AM.

  9. #9
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    Actually Satin stopped hitting when he stopped starting. He was hot when they brought Ike back.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna View Post
    Actually Satin stopped hitting when he stopped starting. He was hot when they brought Ike back.
    He's still not a long term option there and only 5 for his last 36 at the plate. I meant more ABs in the sense of over time. He's been up here over a month and a half now.

    I am sure he's been scouted more properly as the news got around about him.
    Last edited by metswon69; 07-31-2013 at 01:04 AM.

  11. #11
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    He was batting .382 when he was benched. Since then he has started 7 of 15 games and dipped to .310, however he still has a .437 OBP. Since we both agree Ike is not the long term answer what's the point of waiting for him to magically get hot as opposed to giving Satin more time until he at least regresses to below average. Because below average would be a reach for Ike right now.

    And who cares if the average HR total for 1st baseman was 24. Last year the WS champion Giants had ONE player hit more then 12 HRs.

    Flores has been a doubles machine this year (35) to go along with 14 HRs. If you wanna bring up league fine, last year at age 20 in A+ and AA he put up 30 doubles and 18 HRs while batting over .300. Not too shabby for a 20 year old. I'll take my chances with him at first.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyblazer11235 View Post
    He was batting .382 when he was benched. Since then he has started 7 of 15 games and dipped to .310, however he still has a .437 OBP. Since we both agree Ike is not the long term answer what's the point of waiting for him to magically get hot as opposed to giving Satin more time until he at least regresses to below average. Because below average would be a reach for Ike right now.

    And who cares if the average HR total for 1st baseman was 24. Last year the WS champion Giants had ONE player hit more then 12 HRs.

    Flores has been a doubles machine this year (35) to go along with 14 HRs. If you wanna bring up league fine, last year at age 20 in A+ and AA he put up 30 doubles and 18 HRs while batting over .300. Not too shabby for a 20 year old. I'll take my chances with him at first.
    Ike been more productive than Satin the last 14 days and they have hit for the same average the last 28 days.

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/pl...&year=2013&t=b

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/pl...&year=2013&t=b

    It's not like Satin has been raking over that time and they are taking his bat out of the lineup. Josh has been much better against LHP and that's who he is going to get starts against.

    Let's not compare the Giants lineup to the Mets lineup. The Giants were an above average league offense last year, the Mets clearly aren't.

    http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.asp...rs=0&sort=17,d

    8th in wRC+ and 13th in wOBA. The Mets need to acquire multiple pieces before they get to that point. You can then substitute less offense at 1st base. Belt is not a terrible hitter either.

    His wRC+ was 18% higher than league average last year and 13% above league average this year. Not great compared to other 1st baseman but presumably much better than Satin and Ike (the way he has gone this year) can produce long term.

    They want Flores at 2nd base. That's where his value is long term. Whether that happens or not, that remains to be seen, but honestly the Mets should be looking at alternative options than Flores there. When they call him up though this season, he probably will get 1st base time to platoon with Duda. But next year they have to find an everyday 1st baseman.
    Last edited by metswon69; 07-31-2013 at 01:36 AM.

  13. #13
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    But Satin was raking up until he had the Ike Davis shadow over him. Should have stuck with the hot bat at least until he cooled off. Give the guy a chance to hold down the job full time and show some confidence in him. He has always hit for average in the minors.

    And I only brought up the Giants to make a point that we don't need a masher at 1st, Belt hit 7 HRs last year for them BTW. Allen Craig has 10 this year and I doubt many Cards fans are complaining about his lack of power.

    They do have more holes to fill as you addressed, so why add another at 1st when you can plug Flores in there? If not at first you are assuming they play him at second (what happens to Murph?) or trade him. And in the event this happens who's the slugging 1st baseman they are picking up this off season? I hear most say either Morales or Hart. Not thrilled about either.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyblazer11235 View Post
    But Satin was raking up until he had the Ike Davis shadow over him. Should have stuck with the hot bat at least until he cooled off. Give the guy a chance to hold down the job full time and show some confidence in him. He has always hit for average in the minors.

    And I only brought up the Giants to make a point that we don't need a masher at 1st, Belt hit 7 HRs last year for them BTW. Allen Craig has 10 this year and I doubt many Cards fans are complaining about his lack of power.

    They do have more holes to fill as you addressed, so why add another at 1st when you can plug Flores in there? If not at first you are assuming they play him at second (what happens to Murph?) or trade him. And in the event this happens who's the slugging 1st baseman they are picking up this off season? I hear most say either Morales or Hart. Not thrilled about either.
    1st is not an average driven position. If it was and the Mets had power bats somewhere else long term, i wouldn't be opposed to give Satin more time there or let Flores play the spot but they don't. Neither will they be able to address their power needs in FA unless they sign Nelson Cruz.

    Hart has the potential to be a 25 home run guy when healthy and Morales has been solid offensively this year in a bad offensive park.

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/pl...oralke01.shtml

    http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx...position=1B/DH

    They could also get Hart at a discount given he is coming off injury. Morales shouldn't be that expensive either.

    Craig is a very underrated hitter. He's not a power bat but the Cardinals offense can live with that given they have the best offense in the NL.

    http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.asp...rs=0&sort=17,d

    http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx...position=1B/OF

    Craig has been very good at creating runs this year as well (137 wRC+).

    There are three scenarios in my mind. They'll either trade Murph after settling with him in arbitration and move Flores to 2nd. Trade Flores in a package deal for an OF or be cheap and let Flores platoon with Duda next year at 1st base.

    There are no doubts in my mind Duda will be a 1st baseman next year in some capacity if they don't find a FA or trade alternative.
    Last edited by metswon69; 07-31-2013 at 02:02 AM.

  15. #15
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    I want no part of Neslon Cruz. Isn't the "plan" supposed to be acquiring that big bat this off season with all the money coming off the books?

    I don't agree with the notion we need to waste money just to have a 20-30 .280 hitter at first when we could possibly get 15-20 .280 outta Flores. Use some of that cash to make a big splash, maybe Ellsbury, or as unlikely as it would be Cano.

    I brought up the Giants last year to show that they were the farthest thing from a slugging ballclub. Like I said before only ONE player on that team hit more then 12 HRs. We don't need a team full of sluggers to win with this team, especially with their ballpark. We need hitters, clutch hitters, and the pitching to continue to progress at the great rate it has been and is anticipated to.

    And back to the original argument, even if you don't see Wilmer/Satin/Ike or any other internal option as the future 1st baseman, then what is the harm of playing someone other then Ike simply for the sake of being competitive. And don't tell me him and Satin have been playing about on par since his return. Like I said when he was given the job full time and didn't have to deal with the Ike Davis Stigma he was hitting .389.

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