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  1. #1
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    Ibanez vs Hafner

    Did Cashman screw up?


    Ibanez
    G: 73
    Ave: .267
    HR: 24
    RBI: 56
    OBA: .314
    SGL: .578
    OPS: .892
    OPS+: 149
    Contract: 1 year @ $2.75 million

    Hafner
    G: 75
    Ave: .218
    HR:12
    RBI: 37
    OBA: .314
    SGL: .407
    OPS: .721
    OPS+: 97
    Contract: 1 year@ $2 million

    With Ibanez having postseason heroics I found it strange at the time that Cashman would not resign him....I thought it was a bad decision then and obviously now as the numbers don't lie.....
    Nick

  2. #2
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    Maybe he didn't want to resign with the Yankees?

  3. #3
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    Depends what you mean by screw up?

    Has Ibanez out performed Hafner so far, yes.


    But over the 3 previous seasons
    Hafner: .267/.363/.447 (25% better than the league average)
    Ibanez: .255/.317/.437 (1% better than the league average)
    *http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.asp...ayers=607,1573

    Projection systems like ZiPS and STEAMER also forcasted Hafner for a better season.

    The thought process was sound, the results didn't end up favorably.


    If you had a coin that was rigged to land on heads 60% of the time would you bet heads? If it landed on tails would that mean you screwed up?

    There was some probability that Ibanez would outperform Hafner. There was more probability that Hafner would outperform Ibanez.

  4. #4
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    Ibanez is having a CAREER year this year, so in hindsight, yes we screwed up big time.

    Based on what was known at the time the Hafner for Ibanez decision was made, though, I agree with the above post.
    <a href=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/29/Ichiro_Suzuki_on_August_1%2C_2012.jpg/240px-Ichiro_Suzuki_on_August_1%2C_2012.jpg target=_blank>http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi..._1%2C_2012.jpg</a>

    BA: .282 HR: ONE! RBI: 20 SB: 12 AGE: 40

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by filihok View Post
    Depends what you mean by screw up?

    Has Ibanez out performed Hafner so far, yes.


    But over the 3 previous seasons
    Hafner: .267/.363/.447 (25% better than the league average)
    Ibanez: .255/.317/.437 (1% better than the league average)
    *http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.asp...ayers=607,1573

    Projection systems like ZiPS and STEAMER also forcasted Hafner for a better season.

    The thought process was sound, the results didn't end up favorably.


    If you had a coin that was rigged to land on heads 60% of the time would you bet heads? If it landed on tails would that mean you screwed up?

    There was some probability that Ibanez would outperform Hafner. There was more probability that Hafner would outperform Ibanez.
    My other point is Ibanez had the flair for the dramatics....he hit many big homeruns for the Yankees in 2012....even if Ibanez numbers slipped from 2012 he would have been a better choice than Pronk....Ibanez could also play OF...What position does Pronk play? Ibanez should have been signed over Ichiro as well...yes, Cashbox screwed up! Gut feelings need to be used as well instead of projections based off of computer programs....I think if The Yankees offered $4-5 million Raul returns easily.....This was like losing Matsui and Damon....these players have ice in their veins during pressure situations......

    IMO, Ibanez was worth more than just a flip of the coin.....the injury issues alone said Pronk was a risk...Cashman flipped the coin and thought the short porch would benefit Hafner more....wrong again!

    $$$$$$$ was the real issue not losing out flipping a coin......they probably offered Ibanez $2 million and his team said obviously said no....His big HR in Game 1 vs the Tigers alone should have increased it to $4-5 million.....
    Last edited by rrzubnyy; 07-16-2013 at 06:01 PM.
    Nick

  6. #6
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    Do you actually read your posts before posting them? Or after.. There an edit button you know. Yikes.

  7. #7
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    I didnt want ibanez to be honest thought we got every thing out of him plus he was going on 41. Obviously now id rather have ibanez. But realisticly we could have had both or could use them both now.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by rrzubnyy View Post
    My other point is Ibanez had the flair for the dramatics....he hit many big homeruns for the Yankees in 2012....even if Ibanez numbers slipped from 2012 he would have been a better choice than Pronk....Ibanez could also play OF...What position does Pronk play? Ibanez should have been signed over Ichiro as well...yes, Cashbox screwed up! Gut feelings need to be used as well instead of projections based off of computer programs....I think if The Yankees offered $4-5 million Raul returns easily.....This was like losing Matsui and Damon....these players have ice in their veins during pressure situations......

    IMO, Ibanez was worth more than just a flip of the coin.....the injury issues alone said Pronk was a risk...Cashman flipped the coin and thought the short porch would benefit Hafner more....wrong again!

    $$$$$$$ was the real issue not losing out flipping a coin......they probably offered Ibanez $2 million and his team said obviously said no....His big HR in Game 1 vs the Tigers alone should have increased it to $4-5 million.....
    And if Raul had gotten hurt or was hitting .210 with 5 hrs, Cashman would have been an idiot for bringing him back based on the fact that he hit a home run in the playoffs.
    <a href=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/29/Ichiro_Suzuki_on_August_1%2C_2012.jpg/240px-Ichiro_Suzuki_on_August_1%2C_2012.jpg target=_blank>http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi..._1%2C_2012.jpg</a>

    BA: .282 HR: ONE! RBI: 20 SB: 12 AGE: 40

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by RCSownsU View Post
    Do you actually read your posts before posting them? Or after.. There an edit button you know. Yikes.
    Only when to add anything .......I know, I am a freaking mess!
    Nick

  10. #10
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    I hope the passing on guys like Bartolo Colon and Raul Ibanez and the trades of Vernon Wells and signing of Hafner puts to rest the ridiculous claim that Cashman is some sort of omnipresent "genius" when it comes to picking guys off the scrape heap. The fact that you people were making it seem like he had some sort of six sense was just laugh out loud ridiculous. It's always been dumb luck and it always will be. Case closed.
    "I'm an administrator. I'm a good listener. I would not pass myself off as an evaluator of talent"

    - Brian Cashman, GM of the Yankees

  11. #11
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    Another example of eyes over stats.

    Everyone SAW the intangibles Raul brought in the fall.....but stats said Hafner was the better play.

    Hi.
    Leo's Thought Of The Day


    Bummer. The Core Be No More.

  12. #12
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    ibanez is on pace to hit more homers than any otehr season in his career at the age of 41. that could never have been predicted. hindsight is always 20/20
    30 Team Stadium Checklist: 10 to go

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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinstripe power View Post
    ibanez is on pace to hit more homers than any otehr season in his career at the age of 41. that could never have been predicted. hindsight is always 20/20
    Oh come on, plenty of people seem to think he was clearly going to have his breakout season at 41.

  14. #14
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    I would bet everything I had that he's been juicing since that year he went nuts in Philly.
    Leo's Thought Of The Day


    Bummer. The Core Be No More.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeoYankee View Post
    I would bet everything I had that he's been juicing since that year he went nuts in Philly.
    It's important to take those stats and put them into context. Hafner played 100+ games only once (118) in the previous 5 seasons. His numbers may be better when he does play but he does not play that much. He was a risk simply due to his injury history.

    The stats also show that Ibanez was at his best when he was the DH last season which is what Hafner does now.
    Last edited by Yankees 1903; 07-17-2013 at 01:50 PM.

    Masahiro Tanaka

    11-1| 99.2 IP| 10.20 K/9| 1.44 BB/9| 0.90 HR/9| 1.99 ERA| 2.70 FIP| 2.32 xFIP| 2.9 fWAR

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