Like us on Facebook


Follow us on Twitter





Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 28
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    39,498
    vCash
    1500

    Celts move deeper into advanced stats

    http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ba...185519162.html

    Sorry I couldn't grab the text w/o having to multi copy/edit the mess.... you'll have to click on..

    Stevens comments this morning just back it up.

    Time for Celts fans to start to pay attention to more than "standard" stats - to try and understand what is going on on the floor/substitutions.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Rhode Island
    Posts
    22,484
    vCash
    1500
    Bye Rondo.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Haha View Post
    What I feel right now is like the satisfaction you feel when a highly judgmental, moralistic televangelist gets caught screwing a male hooker.
    NE Patriots Forum HOF (Class of 2011)

    Trill Team

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    39,498
    vCash
    1500
    I missed this one:

    http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/20...r8N/story.html

    Danny Ainge happy, but Celtics’ salary cap a concern
    By Gary Washburn
    | Globe Staff

    July 11, 2013


    ORLANDO — As the blockbuster trade sending Kevin Garnett and Paul Pierce to the Brooklyn Nets is hours from being official, christening the beginning of the Celtics’ rebuilding era, president of basketball operations Danny Ainge Wednesday watched his summer league squad tussle with the Houston Rockets, satisfied with his offseason work so far.

    There are two standout rookies on the team, first-round pick Kelly Olynyk and second-round selection Colton Iverson, and an emerging player in former Missouri guard Phil Pressey, who will officially receive a training camp invitation following the summer league conclusion Friday.

    It’s been a few weeks of recovery for the Celtics, who are trying to reduce their roster size, avoid any luxury taxes, and add youth to their roster despite the contracts of Gerald Wallace ($10.1 million owed next season), Kris Humphries ($12 million), and Keith Bogans ($5 million) coming over in the Brooklyn trade.

    On the day that free agent contracts were official and the league-wide moratorium was lifted, the Celtics had nothing to announce for the first time in years. They are likely to be inactive in the free agent market, save for some minimum salary deals. Ainge maintains the Celtics need to shave players off the roster, condense salary, and put themselves in a better financial position, unlike those luxury tax years when they were competing for championships.

    It’s a bizarre position for the Celtics. They are not making a peep in free agency, they are in complete restructuring mode, and Ainge said Wednesday he is not likely to use the team’s mini mid-level exception or bi-annual exception to sign a free agent who merely would be a stopgap. With the incumbent veterans such as Brandon Bass, Jeff Green, and Courtney Lee along with Wallace, potentially Humphries (if his expiring deal is not moved), and Bogans, the Celtics have enough veterans.

    Signing a couple of more won’t help their retooling plan if it means robbing playing time from a youngster.

    “Right now we’ll have a full roster,” Ainge said. “So there’s some guys we’re still taking a look at but we got a lot of guys. We’ve been active but just in a different way. We’ve been trying to make more deals as opposed to just free agent signings because we haven’t had cap space and we have a lot of bodies and we have a lot of guys we like under contract.”

    Ainge has fielded his share of calls on Rajon Rondo and there are teams such as the Detroit Pistons lurking, waiting for the Celtics to make him available. Ainge has maintained he is not trading Rondo. Rondo’s agent said his client is ready to cooperate and work with new coach Brad Stevens, and Rondo is still recovering from a torn anterior cruciate ligament. Yet Ainge said teams are not making ridiculous offers for Rondo, such as expiring contracts or low draft picks, trying to feast off a rebuilding team looking to dump salary.

    “No people don’t do that, I think they know better than that,” he said, laughing. “It’s a normal summer that way, a lot of conversation, every team is trying to improve their team. Every team is trying to manage their payroll. You look at every team in the league and try to figure out what they may need, what they may want, what they can afford. So it’s tough. Making trades is challenging because there’s so many teams that have different goals and different payrolls.”

    Ainge said there was no progress in talks for Brazilian center Vitor Faverani, who would require a buyout from his team in Spain. That would only garner the Celtics the rights to the 6-feet, 11-inch 250-pounder, and they would have to squeeze him into the salary structure somehow.

    While Ainge said he is unlikely to stretch the budget at this point, he didn’t rule it out — as if Ainge leaving himself an out is a surprise.

    “I don’t know what we’re going to do,” he said. “For the right person we’ll pay anything we can. We’ll pay the full mid-level, get under the tax and pay a full mid-level [$5.1 million] if we have to.”

    Ainge said last week that the Celtics had no intention on tanking the season for a high draft pick and the players who showed up at Amway Center — Green, Lee, Bass, and Jared Sullinger — reiterated their desire to compete and were disturbed by the perception 2013-14 was a throwaway season.

    Ainge again agreed.

    “We have some good players and I’m very excited about these guys and how hard they’re playing and next year will be fun,” he said. “They don’t believe [they’ll be bad]. Who cares what other people think? You have to go out and play for each other. If it gives you a chip on your shoulder because of what people are saying then that’s fine. I don’t know who’s paying attention to what’s being said, I don’t know what’s being said, but time will tell.”

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++

    So basically what you see is what you get. With health, and an early return of Rondo appears to be a 35 win team +/- 5. That's just excellent! First round (maybe) and out and middle of the draft pick. The kind of team/direction that's designed to excite new fans
    Last edited by bagwell368; 07-12-2013 at 01:27 PM.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    farmington nh
    Posts
    160
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by hugepatsfan View Post
    Bye Rondo.
    how exactly does this mean bye to rondo? I think if anything rondo fits in well when talking about advanced statistics because he gets the best out of the players on the floor with him and he makes them perform better when he is on the court. so how does he not fit in? why would stevens go out of his way to praise rondo and say that there is no bigger fan of rondo them him and he cant wait to work with him and learn from him? (everyone is going to say cuz a coach is never going to throw his player under the bus incase he ends up stuck here blah blah) but my point is if it has been planned to get rid of rondo all stevens could have said is he is a great talented player not go all out and say there is no bigger fan and that he cant wait to coach and learn from rondo. he wouldn't it would make him look bad too a lot of Celtics fans and he doesn't want to piss them off before his first official game.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    farmington nh
    Posts
    160
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    Ainge has fielded his share of calls on Rajon Rondo and there are teams such as the Detroit Pistons lurking, waiting for the Celtics to make him available. Ainge has maintained he is not trading Rondo. Rondo’s agent said his client is ready to cooperate and work with new coach Brad Stevens, and Rondo is still recovering from a torn anterior cruciate ligament. Yet Ainge said teams are not making ridiculous offers for Rondo, such as expiring contracts or low draft picks, trying to feast off a rebuilding team looking to dump salary.
    THIS!!! rondo wont be traded

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    23,738
    vCash
    1500
    Not surprised. They hired Drew Cannon who was an assistant at Butler who had stats available on the bench.

    Quote Originally Posted by bstnfn34 View Post
    how exactly does this mean bye to rondo? I think if anything rondo fits in well when talking about advanced statistics because he gets the best out of the players on the floor with him and he makes them perform better when he is on the court. so how does he not fit in? why would stevens go out of his way to praise rondo and say that there is no bigger fan of rondo them him and he cant wait to work with him and learn from him? (everyone is going to say cuz a coach is never going to throw his player under the bus incase he ends up stuck here blah blah) but my point is if it has been planned to get rid of rondo all stevens could have said is he is a great talented player not go all out and say there is no bigger fan and that he cant wait to coach and learn from rondo. he wouldn't it would make him look bad too a lot of Celtics fans and he doesn't want to piss them off before his first official game.
    Outside of AST%, Rondo really doesn't have great advanced stats.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Rhode Island
    Posts
    22,484
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by bstnfn34 View Post
    how exactly does this mean bye to rondo? I think if anything rondo fits in well when talking about advanced statistics because he gets the best out of the players on the floor with him and he makes them perform better when he is on the court. so how does he not fit in? why would stevens go out of his way to praise rondo and say that there is no bigger fan of rondo them him and he cant wait to work with him and learn from him? (everyone is going to say cuz a coach is never going to throw his player under the bus incase he ends up stuck here blah blah) but my point is if it has been planned to get rid of rondo all stevens could have said is he is a great talented player not go all out and say there is no bigger fan and that he cant wait to coach and learn from rondo. he wouldn't it would make him look bad too a lot of Celtics fans and he doesn't want to piss them off before his first official game.
    The stats don't back those statements up at all. In fact, they tell the opposite. Rondo turns everyone else on the court strictly into an off ball player and most guys don't excel that way. It's just not the way most NBA players like to be used. For stretches and plays sure but not exclusively. But then again Rondo is a huge liability on offense when he doesn't have the ball (until the shot goes up when his offensive rebounding is an asset but that isn't really all that valuable at his position). If Rondo's on the court without the ball the rest of the team is pretty much playing 5 on 4.

    I don't think a Rondo trade is actually going to happen now. I'm expecting a deal to DET between Christmas and the deadline. A deal makes sense now when we're talking on the internet, but when real money, marketing strategies, and jobs being on the line if a deal goes wrong (i.e. Dumars in DET if Rondo isn't the same after surgery) it makes sense to wait. Stevens and the FO knows that so the smart business move is pumping Rondo up as much as possible.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Haha View Post
    What I feel right now is like the satisfaction you feel when a highly judgmental, moralistic televangelist gets caught screwing a male hooker.
    NE Patriots Forum HOF (Class of 2011)

    Trill Team

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Rhode Island
    Posts
    22,484
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by B'sCeltsPatsSox View Post
    Not surprised. They hired Drew Cannon who was an assistant at Butler who had stats available on the bench.



    Outside of AST%, Rondo really doesn't have great advanced stats.
    And AST% is a meaningless stat without context. If a team scores the least amount of FGs in the NBA a player can still have a high AST%. If you go a game playing 36 minutes and the team only scores 20 buckets when you're on the floor but you assist on 15 of them you're going to have a God-like AST% even if you're lack of off ball skills is a major reason why the team scored so few buckets.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Haha View Post
    What I feel right now is like the satisfaction you feel when a highly judgmental, moralistic televangelist gets caught screwing a male hooker.
    NE Patriots Forum HOF (Class of 2011)

    Trill Team

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    farmington nh
    Posts
    160
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by hugepatsfan View Post
    The stats don't back those statements up at all. In fact, they tell the opposite. Rondo turns everyone else on the court strictly into an off ball player and most guys don't excel that way. It's just not the way most NBA players like to be used. For stretches and plays sure but not exclusively. But then again Rondo is a huge liability on offense when he doesn't have the ball (until the shot goes up when his offensive rebounding is an asset but that isn't really all that valuable at his position). If Rondo's on the court without the ball the rest of the team is pretty much playing 5 on 4.
    I don't think a Rondo trade is actually going to happen now. I'm expecting a deal to DET between Christmas and the deadline. A deal makes sense now when we're talking on the internet, but when real money, marketing strategies, and jobs being on the line if a deal goes wrong (i.e. Dumars in DET if Rondo isn't the same after surgery) it makes sense to wait. Stevens and the FO knows that so the smart business move is pumping Rondo up as much as possible.
    statistically pgs who go down with injuries such as this come back as much improved shooters because that is all they can do basketball wise during their recovery, rondo being a work horse and a tough player will take advantage of that. I almost guarantee rondo will shock everyone with his shooting percentage this year. plus now he is the GUY on the team before he would defer to the other guys because they were there look for rondo to be more aggressive going to the hoop like he was a few years back when he carried us in the playoffs. he can still get to the lane almost at will and finishes around the rim pretty efficiently.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    3,935
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by bstnfn34 View Post
    statistically pgs who go down with injuries such as this come back as much improved shooters because that is all they can do basketball wise during their recovery, rondo being a work horse and a tough player will take advantage of that. I almost guarantee rondo will shock everyone with his shooting percentage this year. plus now he is the GUY on the team before he would defer to the other guys because they were there look for rondo to be more aggressive going to the hoop like he was a few years back when he carried us in the playoffs. he can still get to the lane almost at will and finishes around the rim pretty efficiently.
    I feel really sorry for you, cause you will get murdered in this thread on this topic...

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Rhode Island
    Posts
    22,484
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by bstnfn34 View Post
    statistically pgs who go down with injuries such as this come back as much improved shooters because that is all they can do basketball wise during their recovery, rondo being a work horse and a tough player will take advantage of that. I almost guarantee rondo will shock everyone with his shooting percentage this year. plus now he is the GUY on the team before he would defer to the other guys because they were there look for rondo to be more aggressive going to the hoop like he was a few years back when he carried us in the playoffs. he can still get to the lane almost at will and finishes around the rim pretty efficiently.
    If he does come back with even an average jump shot it will improve what I think of him by leaps and bounds. However, I don't have as much faith in that as you do. Jump shooting has been pretty much the only major weakness in Rondo's game for the last 5 seasons or so yet it still hasn't gotten better. You claim he has more time to work on it but all we've heard about the beginning of every training camp is how much Rondo worked on shooting that offseason. Why should I believe that him working on it another time will yield different results? And jump shooting isn't the only way to be an effective off ball player. Rondo compounds the problem by not being a good cutter to the hoop without the ball. And like I said before, that isn't unique to him. Most players don't excel at that.

    My issue with Rondo is that he only is useful as a ball dominant offensive player. That's where all his value lies. Unfortunately, I don't believe that you can build a championship offense around a ball dominant player like him - one that looks to pass instead of shoot. You need unique players around him that are hard to find. It's possible but it's unrealistic to expect to build a team full of great off ball offensive players when it isn't a skill set most have beyond spot up shooting. For that reason, I think Rondo either needs to make major changes to his game or be traded. That's where his huge ego comes in. To this point, he hasn't shown himself willing to acknowledge this and work on his game. Shooting might be something he just doesn't have but the off ball cutting is something he can work on. He understands it so well from the passing end that he should be able to have it down on the other side.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Haha View Post
    What I feel right now is like the satisfaction you feel when a highly judgmental, moralistic televangelist gets caught screwing a male hooker.
    NE Patriots Forum HOF (Class of 2011)

    Trill Team

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    farmington nh
    Posts
    160
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by hugepatsfan View Post
    If he does come back with even an average jump shot it will improve what I think of him by leaps and bounds. However, I don't have as much faith in that as you do. Jump shooting has been pretty much the only major weakness in Rondo's game for the last 5 seasons or so yet it still hasn't gotten better. You claim he has more time to work on it but all we've heard about the beginning of every training camp is how much Rondo worked on shooting that offseason. Why should I believe that him working on it another time will yield different results? And jump shooting isn't the only way to be an effective off ball player. Rondo compounds the problem by not being a good cutter to the hoop without the ball. And like I said before, that isn't unique to him. Most players don't excel at that.

    My issue with Rondo is that he only is useful as a ball dominant offensive player. That's where all his value lies. Unfortunately, I don't believe that you can build a championship offense around a ball dominant player like him - one that looks to pass instead of shoot. You need unique players around him that are hard to find. It's possible but it's unrealistic to expect to build a team full of great off ball offensive players when it isn't a skill set most have beyond spot up shooting. For that reason, I think Rondo either needs to make major changes to his game or be traded. That's where his huge ego comes in. To this point, he hasn't shown himself willing to acknowledge this and work on his game. Shooting might be something he just doesn't have but the off ball cutting is something he can work on. He understands it so well from the passing end that he should be able to have it down on the other side.
    believe it or not I agree with most of your points there but look at the Celtics roster as it stands now, I can name a few spot up shooters and a whole bunch of off ball cutters Wallace Green Bradley. as for a pick and roll or pick and pop you have sully bass olynk Humphries, they are looking to build around rondo, is that the right move? I don't think so I think they should focus more around green and his game. I think if rondo gained a jumpshot and took it all the way to the hole more he would have to be respected on the floor spacing it out for the cutters and the jump shooters. you don't just throw away a special player such as rondo for expirings and draft picks. he is top 5 if not the best passer/court vision player in the entire league. and rondo has shown great off ball moves he is a decent I will not say great but decent cutter but again he is always looking to pass off the cuts to try and quickly find the open man even if he himself is the open man so yes he will need to make tweeks to his game but anytime you loose players like kg or pp to FA trades or retirement anyone left over has to adjust their games that's just the way it is.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    39,498
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by bstnfn34 View Post
    THIS!!! rondo wont be traded
    Ainge can gain nothing by intimating or stating he'd deal Rondo - so I don't believe he's 100% honest here.

    As far as Rondo and advanced metrics, they are part of the reason I can safely state he hasn't been inside the top 12 PG in any of the past 3 years during the regular season.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    913
    vCash
    1500
    This the time and team to do it with. Experiment away...

    City of Champions

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    39,498
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by bstnfn34 View Post
    statistically pgs who go down with injuries such as this come back as much improved shooters because that is all they can do basketball wise during their recovery, rondo being a work horse and a tough player will take advantage of that.
    I'd love to see a citation on that. BTW, it hasn't worked on his brutal unprofessional FT shooting since he got out of college - explain that.

    I almost guarantee rondo will shock everyone with his shooting percentage this year. plus now he is the GUY on the team before he would defer to the other guys because they were there look for rondo to be more aggressive going to the hoop like he was a few years back when he carried us in the playoffs. he can still get to the lane almost at will and finishes around the rim pretty efficiently.
    I agree - in reverse. Without HOF'ers to be KG, PP, and RA for other teams to worry about, simple man w/ limited switch defense can be employed - instead of the stand back 5 feet LAL defense on Rondo. That won't help his shooting.

    We all know he can drive very well, but, he does less and less of that since he gets crushed to put him on the line so he can miss 1 out of 2 - a big part of his high FG% shooting game melting away...

    Over the past 3 years on offense he's been good with assists, OReb (not a big slice of a PG's game), driving - shooting outside of 12' and his FT shooting make him a below average NBA PG on offense on average these past 3 years - it's a fact. You understand his misses at FG and FT above the NBA PG norm that are not Orebounded (Celts have among the worst OReb'ing in the NBA) are turnovers.

    His D used to be good during the playoffs in particular, but last year he started to play well off on man D - that's a horrible trend if it keeps up.

    Then of course there is the whole middle of the week, non National TV, non start opposing PG - play while yawning thing that Rondo specializes in... seems to have gotten worse since he took 15 games off after the Perk deal and sunk our chances at #1 seed in the East.

    Never mind all the moronic off the court stuff...


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •