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  1. #1
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    KNICKS FUTURE: The Lightside

    I predicted last year, before the season, that if healthy we could win 60 games. We weren't fully healthy and we won 54 games.

    This year, we are already better (on paper)

    The return of the core: Melo, Tyson, JR, STAT, Felton, Shump, Prigs

    Key additions: Bargnani, THjr

    Potential SL additions: CJ Leslie, TM2 (dleague Tony Mitchell), Jerome Jordan

    People like to hate and look for the negative and bad, especially Knicks fans that want to hate on anything that doesn't fit in their vision of what is good or will get us to the promised land. That is where the lightsiders come in. The sky is not falling. Especially if we don't sign the back up to the backup in free agency right away.

    Realistic evaluations:

    Our core players have not changed from last year. They will be a year older and a year better as a group. STAT should be healthy (even if he is on a minutes limit). He showed he could provide some excellent, efficient play consistently off the bench. JR should be more consistent than last year with an award and nearly identical role, confidence should be high. Felton will also have a year under his belt and should be even better than last year in continuity and comfort with the team. Melo should dominate once again.

    Overall, even with the loss of Kidd, our core should be better than last year. A core that won 54 games.

    Bargnani and THjr will improve the team over James White and Novak. Period. If you don't agree, please make an appointment to see a psychologist. If you look at Bargnani's career, he has steadily increased his PER (with the exception of last year) and had his best production playing off of another player. Bargnani is better than Copeland/Novak, period. There doesn't have to be an explanation. Bargnani has been the #1/#2 option his whole career with a boatload of expectations that were not helped to be realized by a poor GM and coaching/roster inconsistency. He is very talented. He was a more effective player as the #2 option, but coming to the Knicks he will be a #4 guy on the team. He will become the clear #2 or #3 option on offense by the end of the season. He has never played with the level of talent that is on the Knicks. THjr fits the mold of the Knicks successful strategy from last season: Hit 3s, Play efficient basketball, Defend.


    Potential additions:

    For those who haven't looked him up, Tony Mitchell (dleague from Alabama) is a gifted athletic wing player who had questions about his offense coming out of college and wasn't picked up by any team. He went to the dleague and simply dominated by improving his outside jumper and expanding his offensive game. TM2 is, I think a real possibility to make the team, just as Copeland was last year. He will not be as good offensively in the NBA, but if he continues to improve his jumper, he can become a prototypical 3pt shooting defender that has become common in the NBA. CJ Leslie is on another level, because if he puts it together, he has the potential to become a very good player (but he has a long way to go to put it all together). That being said, Leslie's natural talents are good enough that he can get by and be productive as he tries to put things together. He can simply do things that a lot of players can't do physically. Jerome Jordan is a good player. We saw him here. We've seen him in SL before. He came to basketball at a late age and big men take longer to develop. His main areas of weakness are strength and fouling on defense. If he has gotten a little stronger and learned to not foul while defending, he can be an effective roleplaying big.

    There are more potential additions as I am sure The Knicks will add a couple of veterans (hopefully Brand). But with too much uncertainty it isn't worth looking at right now.


    Improved core + improved additions = Better team in 2013-14.

    I am going to say that we should win 55-60 games this year (provided no major injuries). We should also be well equipped to handle Miami, Chicago, Indiana, New Jersey in the regular season and in the playoffs. I see nothing short of an ECF appearance and a very good chance to advance to the Finals.

    We should relax and enjoy the offseason. We are not looking at a 23 win team with turmoil and no draft pick because our GM gave it away in a bad trade. We are not wondering when our team will be good again. We are just tweaking our team to make sure that we can overcome all contenders. That is a good place to be.

  2. #2
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    x2. Nothing more to say.

  3. #3
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    I agree with most of this.

    I would really like to see us add some size and physicality up front because Jerome Jordan still isnt really a bruiser, although I'm excited about what he could bring as a backup big after another year of development. I just feel that with the injury concerns we have along the frontline, we need to have quality insurance.

    JR, Prigs, Hardaway, Melo, Bargs, and now Shump have all shown they can knock down 3's. I think we have enough shooters on this team.

    Quote Originally Posted by Guppyfighter View Post


    The division is going to be ran by the Sixers and Raptors in three years. Book it.

  4. #4
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    You people are going to say "Well Derrick Rose was injured" like we didn't lose to the Bulls 4-0 already lol

    I think we are good, try this Melo/Amare thing once more this year and if it doesn't work he can be moved, plus with all of these new HUGE contracts that were just signed, we could probably move him this year, because I have seen worse contracts moved (Francis, Joe Johnson, etc.)

  5. #5
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    While I like the optimism and certainly hope it plays out like this I'm not sure how realistic your expectations are.

    The most realistic expectations are that none of these core guys will improve much considering they are all in their prime and haven't really changed much in the past couple years. Melo will be Melo. Smith will be his inconsistent self. If he repeats what he did last year (besides playoffs) we should be ecstatic. Felton is what he is too. I don't see much room for improvement from him.

    As for Amare, the most realistic thing is that he will be injured at some point this season so to expect anything out of him is tough.

    I will say though that having a 100% healthy Shumpert should be a big upgrade over what he did last year. He was obviously timid at times and thinking of the injury a lot before he started flashing signs of being completely healthy towards the end of the season.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by HouRealCoach View Post
    You people are going to say "Well Derrick Rose was injured" like we didn't lose to the Bulls 4-0 already lol

    I think we are good, try this Melo/Amare thing once more this year and if it doesn't work he can be moved, plus with all of these new HUGE contracts that were just signed, we could probably move him this year, because I have seen worse contracts moved (Francis, Joe Johnson, etc.)
    All the Chicago games were pretty close if I recall with some key defense/rebounding happening in Chicago's favor in the 4th quarter of those games. We were also not nearly at full strength for most of those games.

    Rose doesn't scare me. The Bulls will have less ball movement and be easier to defend when Rose comes back. Bulls advantage was clearly up front and healthy (relatively) Amare and addition of Bargnani should provide plenty of matchup problems to swing the balance back in our favor. Hopefully we will also have a veteran big man that can give us good minutes off the bench (Brand or another FA).

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by KnicksFan4Years View Post
    I predicted last year, before the season, that if healthy we could win 60 games. We weren't fully healthy and we won 54 games.

    This year, we are already better (on paper)

    The return of the core: Melo, Tyson, JR, STAT, Felton, Shump, Prigs

    Key additions: Bargnani, THjr

    Potential SL additions: CJ Leslie, TM2 (dleague Tony Mitchell), Jerome Jordan

    People like to hate and look for the negative and bad, especially Knicks fans that want to hate on anything that doesn't fit in their vision of what is good or will get us to the promised land. That is where the lightsiders come in. The sky is not falling. Especially if we don't sign the back up to the backup in free agency right away.

    Realistic evaluations:

    Our core players have not changed from last year. They will be a year older and a year better as a group. STAT should be healthy (even if he is on a minutes limit). He showed he could provide some excellent, efficient play consistently off the bench. JR should be more consistent than last year with an award and nearly identical role, confidence should be high. Felton will also have a year under his belt and should be even better than last year in continuity and comfort with the team. Melo should dominate once again.

    Overall, even with the loss of Kidd, our core should be better than last year. A core that won 54 games.

    Bargnani and THjr will improve the team over James White and Novak. Period. If you don't agree, please make an appointment to see a psychologist. If you look at Bargnani's career, he has steadily increased his PER (with the exception of last year) and had his best production playing off of another player. Bargnani is better than Copeland/Novak, period. There doesn't have to be an explanation. Bargnani has been the #1/#2 option his whole career with a boatload of expectations that were not helped to be realized by a poor GM and coaching/roster inconsistency. He is very talented. He was a more effective player as the #2 option, but coming to the Knicks he will be a #4 guy on the team. He will become the clear #2 or #3 option on offense by the end of the season. He has never played with the level of talent that is on the Knicks. THjr fits the mold of the Knicks successful strategy from last season: Hit 3s, Play efficient basketball, Defend.


    Potential additions:

    For those who haven't looked him up, Tony Mitchell (dleague from Alabama) is a gifted athletic wing player who had questions about his offense coming out of college and wasn't picked up by any team. He went to the dleague and simply dominated by improving his outside jumper and expanding his offensive game. TM2 is, I think a real possibility to make the team, just as Copeland was last year. He will not be as good offensively in the NBA, but if he continues to improve his jumper, he can become a prototypical 3pt shooting defender that has become common in the NBA. CJ Leslie is on another level, because if he puts it together, he has the potential to become a very good player (but he has a long way to go to put it all together). That being said, Leslie's natural talents are good enough that he can get by and be productive as he tries to put things together. He can simply do things that a lot of players can't do physically. Jerome Jordan is a good player. We saw him here. We've seen him in SL before. He came to basketball at a late age and big men take longer to develop. His main areas of weakness are strength and fouling on defense. If he has gotten a little stronger and learned to not foul while defending, he can be an effective roleplaying big.

    There are more potential additions as I am sure The Knicks will add a couple of veterans (hopefully Brand). But with too much uncertainty it isn't worth looking at right now.


    Improved core + improved additions = Better team in 2013-14.

    I am going to say that we should win 55-60 games this year (provided no major injuries). We should also be well equipped to handle Miami, Chicago, Indiana, New Jersey in the regular season and in the playoffs. I see nothing short of an ECF appearance and a very good chance to advance to the Finals.

    We should relax and enjoy the offseason. We are not looking at a 23 win team with turmoil and no draft pick because our GM gave it away in a bad trade. We are not wondering when our team will be good again. We are just tweaking our team to make sure that we can overcome all contenders. That is a good place to be.
    Great post... I'm glad some people see the positives.
    We have a good team to fight with for 2 years.
    If we win great, If we dont we can rebuilt the team around a Melo, Shump, TH jr.
    We'd have enough cap space to add another star + more.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by TallicaFan87 View Post
    While I like the optimism and certainly hope it plays out like this I'm not sure how realistic your expectations are.

    The most realistic expectations are that none of these core guys will improve much considering they are all in their prime and haven't really changed much in the past couple years. Melo will be Melo. Smith will be his inconsistent self. If he repeats what he did last year (besides playoffs) we should be ecstatic. Felton is what he is too. I don't see much room for improvement from him.

    As for Amare, the most realistic thing is that he will be injured at some point this season so to expect anything out of him is tough.

    I will say though that having a 100% healthy Shumpert should be a big upgrade over what he did last year. He was obviously timid at times and thinking of the injury a lot before he started flashing signs of being completely healthy towards the end of the season.
    I realistically expect that Amare will be able to a consistent contributor with a minutes restriction. He had surgeries to repair the damage in his knees and should be at or near the level we saw in the middle of last season. The surgery on the first knee seemed to have worked well and Amare was playing at a high and efficient level for us. If we can get 25 minutes of an efficient Amare, that will be more than enough to help make us successful.

  9. #9
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    Duplicate post

  10. #10
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    I don't think that ppl think the Knicks are gonna suck...they will probably win 50 games again but be eliminated before the ECF again, and that's the problem...and even if they make it to the ECF they haven't made the moves necessary to give themselves a better shot against MIA or any of the top teams in the east for that matter

    The issue is more about stagnation and not improving rather than the Knicks being bad, because that simply is not the case. My personal issue, and I know some share it as well, is that they used part of their MMLE, which was their only way of improving, for a vet min player in Prigioni. That contract is costing the Knicks more than what the contract is actually worth.

    Simple question...have the Knicks made definite improvements this offseason? I say definite because the past 2 yrs have shown you can't count on Amare or Bargarni. Everyone happy or showing optimism is saying if Bargarni finally gets it after 7 yrs in the league?! If Amare stays healthy...meanwhile others simply see it for what it is at the moment and simply acknowledge the ifs.

    Also, can't ignore that the Knicks PG situation is one of the worst in the league and their big man situation has gotten worse this offseason as well.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by smood999 View Post
    I don't think that ppl think the Knicks are gonna suck...they will probably win 50 games again but be eliminated before the ECF again, and that's the problem...and even if they make it to the ECF they haven't made the moves necessary to give themselves a better shot against MIA or any of the top teams in the east for that matter

    The issue is more about stagnation and not improving rather than the Knicks being bad, because that simply is not the case. My personal issue, and I know some share it as well, is that they used part of their MMLE, which was their only way of improving, for a vet min player in Prigioni. That contract is costing the Knicks more than what the contract is actually worth.

    Simple question...have the Knicks made definite improvements this offseason? I say definite because the past 2 yrs have shown you can't count on Amare or Bargarni. Everyone happy or showing optimism is saying if Bargarni finally gets it after 7 yrs in the league?! If Amare stays healthy...meanwhile others simply see it for what it is at the moment and simply acknowledge the ifs.

    Also, can't ignore that the Knicks PG situation is one of the worst in the league and their big man situation has gotten worse this offseason as well.
    The health issue is important to any team. But are the Knicks that unique with respect to the recent injury history of Amare and Barg? While I wish every NBA player the best of health, there is always a concern for any team.

    Miami: Wade is showing some serious wear and tear. Will he be able to continue this season as a productive member of the big three?

    Chicago: Noah? Talk about a history of injuries. What about Deng's medical crisis at the end of last season? Rose's knee is still untested. I am sure Chicago worries about those issues.

    Indiana: Hibbert has a history or wrist injuries. Danny Ganger has been out for a year. They just lost Hansborough.

    Nets: Old, Older, and Oldest.

    Lakers: Kobe is 35 and no NBA player, young or old, has come back 100% from a ruptured achilles. Gasol is 33. Nash will be 40 in 2014 and is coming off an injury.

    Spurs: Parker is 31; Duncan is 37 and Ginobli is 36.

    I am sure I can go on and on. Obviously every team is concerned about injuries and the injury history of their players. We are not unique in this regard.

    And yes. The Knicks unquestionably improved the roster from last season. The addition of Bargs and Hardaway is an improvement. I am sorry, but I cannot even comprehend the idea that it is not an improvement. I am sure there is more to come.
    Last edited by trout1627; 07-08-2013 at 03:47 PM.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by trout1627 View Post
    The health issue is important to any team. But are the Knicks that unique with respect to the recent injury history of Amare and Barg? While I wish every NBA player the best of health, there is always a concern for any team.

    Miami: Wade is showing some serious wear and tear. Will he be able to continue this season as a productive member of the big three?

    Chicago: Noah? Talk about a history of injuries. What about Deng's medical crisis at the end of last season? Rose's knee is still untested. I am sure Chicago worries about those issues.

    Indiana: Hibbert has a history or wrist injuries. Danny Ganger has been out for a year. They just lost Hansborough.

    Nets: Old, Older, and Oldest.

    Lakers: Kobe is 35 and no NBA player, young or old, has come back 100% from a ruptured achilles. Gasol is 33. Nash will be 40 in 2014 and is coming off an injury.

    Spurs: Parker is 31; Duncan is 37 and Ginobli is 36.

    I am sure I can go on and on. Obviously every team is concerned about injuries and the injury history of their players. We are not unique in this regard.

    And yes. The Knicks unquestionably improved the roster from last season. The addition of Bargs and Hardaway is an improvement. I am sorry, but I cannot even comprehend the idea that it is not an improvement. I am sure there is more to come.
    Thanks for making my point. No team has been a champion without getting a little lucky on injuries to their major players.

    But, going into next season, we will be way more prepared for injuries than last season - and we did okay despite a whole mess of injuries.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by smood999 View Post
    I don't think that ppl think the Knicks are gonna suck...they will probably win 50 games again but be eliminated before the ECF again, and that's the problem...and even if they make it to the ECF they haven't made the moves necessary to give themselves a better shot against MIA or any of the top teams in the east for that matter

    The issue is more about stagnation and not improving rather than the Knicks being bad, because that simply is not the case. My personal issue, and I know some share it as well, is that they used part of their MMLE, which was their only way of improving, for a vet min player in Prigioni. That contract is costing the Knicks more than what the contract is actually worth.

    Simple question...have the Knicks made definite improvements this offseason? I say definite because the past 2 yrs have shown you can't count on Amare or Bargarni. Everyone happy or showing optimism is saying if Bargarni finally gets it after 7 yrs in the league?! If Amare stays healthy...meanwhile others simply see it for what it is at the moment and simply acknowledge the ifs.

    Also, can't ignore that the Knicks PG situation is one of the worst in the league and their big man situation has gotten worse this offseason as well.
    I agree with about wasting our midlevel exception. I rather have used the full 3.1M on a guy like Mo Williams or Devin Harris instead of Prigioni. Those guys are are clear upgrades over him. It seems like the 1.7M is wasted.

    But we have to see how the rest of the offseason goes. Last season we snatched Brewer for the min at the last second, he was expected to make more. A couple of years ago Shawn williams left us and we ended up getting JR for that 2.5M. There could be 2-3 guys left at the end after everyone is done shoping.

    I disagree with you on Barngani. Amare's injuries are serious and mostly knee related. He's older and can no longer be counted on. Barngani hasn't had any serious injuries, he hasn't had any surguries either. The guy is only 27. He has proven to be a 20ppg scorer, with a very versitle game. Injuries have ruined has last two seasons. The fans and the Media in toronto have killed him for not living up to be the #1 pick. I think he's happy to be here, a change of scenery might reserect his career. You can argue that he hasn't tapped his full potential yet. I think he'll do fine. I dont worry about Bargnani at all, the only thing that concerns me is Melo playing the 3. He's too lazy to stay with his man.

  14. #14
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    BTW - Knicks signed CJ Leslie

    So count him in.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by KnicksFan4Years View Post
    BTW - Knicks signed CJ Leslie

    So count him in.
    I always like to see the underdog succeed. Hope he does well. Another player I am hopeful about is AJ Matthews. Can't wait to see what he has in summer league.

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