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  1. #1
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    Who goes? Who stays?

    I figured I would start a thread on this, because it tends to derail the GDTs and the trade thread whenever it comes up and it's an interesting debate.

    We have a handful of regulars injured, and their replacement players are doing an excellent job filling in, hence the current winning streak.

    So, who goes when Reyes comes back is a tough decision in its own, but then who goes when Lawrie is back, or when Morrow and Happ return?

    Players who aren't going away:
    Bautista
    Encarnacion
    Lind
    Rasmus
    Davis
    Arencibia
    Thole
    Cabrera
    Izturis
    DeRosa

    Players on the bubble:
    Kawasaki
    Bonifacio

    Pitchers who aren't going anywhere:
    Dickey
    Johnson
    Beuhrle
    Jansen
    Cecil
    Delabar
    Loup

    Pitchers on the bubble:
    Wagner
    McGowan
    Perez
    Wang
    Rogers?

    When Reyes comes back, the most plausible situation is either remove Kawasaki or Boni, or send down a reliever. When Lawrie gets back, one of Boni or Kawasaki has to go, or Lawrie stays in AAA. Then when Mortow returns, either Wang or Rogers moves to the pen, and another pen arm goes. The same goes for Happ, unless Happ stays in AAA or goes to the pen. Could we see someone traded, like Boni or Oliver? Someone like Lawrie or Happ kept in AAA?

    What do you guys think?

    Reyes SS
    Bautista RF
    Encarnacion 1B
    Lind DH
    Cabrera LF
    Rasmus CF
    Lawrie 3B
    Arencibia C
    Izturis 2B

    Bench
    Thole, Davis, DeRosa, Kawasaki or Boni

    Rotation:
    Dickey
    JJ
    Beuhrle
    Morrow
    Rogers/Wang

    Pen:
    Janssen
    Cecil
    Delabar
    Rogers/Wang
    Loup
    Wagner
    Oliver
    Last edited by MrForever; 06-23-2013 at 05:07 PM.

  2. #2
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    I think Lawrie gets a long, long rehab stint. They'll try and get him sorted out offensively before bringing him back this time. Last time, they sort of rushed him back before making sure his timing was there, and the results were so ugly. Once Reyes gets back they can afford to let him take his time.

    As for the rotation, both Happ and Morrow are probably out til the AS break at least. Pitching is too volatile to make any predictions that far away.

  3. #3
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    I think that when everyone is healthy you have what you had at the beginning of the year with LAwrie 3B, Reyes SS, Iztruis 2B. With a bench of Davis, Derosa, Bonifacio, THole. I think that with that infield you are not going to get many guys on the bench playing everyday so you might as well have guys on the bench who specialize in something. Thole C, Bonifacio (speed and defensive flexibility), Davis (speed and all three OF positions, possible platoon with Lind at somepoint again).


    But until Lawrie gets back you prolly have a 7 man BP with a bench of Thole, Derosa, Bonifacio/Kawasaki, Davis.


    You'll note that I didnt include DeRosa's name in the specialization part above. THat was by design. He really is a useless on this team. BUt AA seems to have a hard on with having a "veteran" guy on his teams.

  4. #4
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    C - Arencibia
    1B - EE/Lind
    2B - Kawasaki/DeRosa
    SS - Reyes
    3B - Lawrie
    OF - Cabrera, Rasmus, Bautista
    DH - Lind/EE

    Bench - Davis, DeRosa, Izturis, Thole

    Rotation - JJ, MB, Dickey, Wang, Morrow
    Bullpen - Janssen, Cecil, Oliver, Delabar, Wagner, Rogers, Loup

    I could care less what happens to the designated pinch runner (Boni). Perez is sort of a loss but on this team he's fairly redundant with all the LHP. And as much as I like McGowan, he's not exactly deserving of a spot over the other RH arms. Seems pretty straightforward to me, but I know it will never happen.

    But the pitchers will catch a break since it'll be a while before Morrow/Happ are ready.


    Vic Mackey: You better figure out how much you hate me. And how you're going to deal with that. 'Cause I'm not going anywhere.

    This sums up every sports interview, ever.

  5. #5
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    When does santos come back? Or is he going to just ride the DL train to retirement?

  6. #6
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    Josh Thole , Wang, Rogers

    have been god sends!

  7. #7
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    We can trade Oliver for a prospect.
    He will not resign anyways. Allows us to keep Perez.
    Rogers over Wang all day in the rotation.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Hurt View Post
    We can trade Oliver for a prospect.
    He will not resign anyways. Allows us to keep Perez.
    Rogers over Wang all day in the rotation.
    Why...?

    We're at the point where the team is looking to contend, not build for the future. If you have to lose someone like Perez on waivers while trying to send him to the minors, so be it. You don't jettison a player like Oliver, regardless of his impending free agency/retirement, while you're making a run for the playoffs. You just don't.

  9. #9
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    Kawasaki will probably be here till all start break when Lawrie comes back. Which means in 4 days he will either be at 2nd or the bench where he is kind of worthless since we already have infield back up. So, the only place is at 2nd and he will have to be huge in order for the team to let go of Izturis or Boni. Cause when Lawrie returns, someone has to go. Pick 1?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1hardcore View Post
    Josh Thole , Wang, Rogers

    have been god sends!
    how the hell has thole been a godsend? hes done nothing
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by wagnall View Post
    Kawasaki will probably be here till all start break when Lawrie comes back. Which means in 4 days he will either be at 2nd or the bench where he is kind of worthless since we already have infield back up. So, the only place is at 2nd and he will have to be huge in order for the team to let go of Izturis or Boni. Cause when Lawrie returns, someone has to go. Pick 1?
    This is when the decision gets tough. As much as I like Kawasaki I can understand the reasoning behind sending him to Buffalo. On the other hand, he has been better than Bonifacio both offensively and defensively. I know the hardcore fans like most of us who post here will get over sending Kawasaki down despite his popularity, but a lot of fringe/bandwagon fans won't like it and as much as they shouldn't matter they are the extra 15,000 who have been coming to the games lately. AA and Gibby have a tough decision to make even if it is just for a utility infielder spot.

  12. #12
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    Question answered...Kawasaki sent down to make room for Reyes.

    New question...was this the right answer to this problem?

    Over the last 2 weeks (when we have been playing so well):

    Kawasaki: .286/.400/.619 with 2 triples and a HR.
    DeRosa: .143/.333/.214 with 0 RBI's
    Izturis: .289/.319/.511 with 2 HR's and 4 doubles
    Bonifacio: .226/.226/.323 with 3 doubles

    Out of all those possible solutions at 2B, Kawasaki has been giving us the most at the dish with an OPS over 1.000. I really don't understand this decision. Kawasaki has shown enough arm strength to play second base, he just crow hops from SS to get his feet moving in the right direction to ensure a good throw when he has a chance. When he needs to rush the throw he has shown the ability to snap it over there. I think he has as much arm strength as Boni, and should be playing 2B for us today with Reyes at SS and Izturis at 3B.

    Please AA, trade Boni or Oliver and bring Kawasaki back!!!...at least until Lawrie is ready to play 3B. We have a stolen base threat on the bench in Davis (and a better one), so there is no need to keep a speed guy around who can't get on base to use that speed.. He has 6 BB's and 49 K's in 196 AB's...and has an OPS under .450 this month ffs.

    This was not the right solution imo.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartron_44 View Post
    Question answered...Kawasaki sent down to make room for Reyes.

    New question...was this the right answer to this problem?

    Over the last 2 weeks (when we have been playing so well):

    Kawasaki: .286/.400/.619 with 2 triples and a HR.
    DeRosa: .143/.333/.214 with 0 RBI's
    Izturis: .289/.319/.511 with 2 HR's and 4 doubles
    Bonifacio: .226/.226/.323 with 3 doubles

    Out of all those possible solutions at 2B, Kawasaki has been giving us the most at the dish with an OPS over 1.000. I really don't understand this decision. Kawasaki has shown enough arm strength to play second base, he just crow hops from SS to get his feet moving in the right direction to ensure a good throw when he has a chance. When he needs to rush the throw he has shown the ability to snap it over there. I think he has as much arm strength as Boni, and should be playing 2B for us today with Reyes at SS and Izturis at 3B.

    Please AA, trade Boni or Oliver and bring Kawasaki back!!!...at least until Lawrie is ready to play 3B. We have a stolen base threat on the bench in Davis (and a better one), so there is no need to keep a speed guy around who can't get on base to use that speed.. He has 6 BB's and 49 K's in 196 AB's...and has an OPS under .450 this month ffs.

    This was not the right solution imo.
    I agree. The numbers show what the right answer was and AA decided to go the other way.

    I'm a tad bit concerned with AA's decision. Yes, it's about winning but, are we going to win the WS? A lot needs to be said about the product you put on the field. I'm not a big fan but I like Kawasaki. I haven't see anything like him...or more importantly...the fans reaction to him in the 30+ years I've followed the Jays.

    Boni better get better fast. I hope AA knows something we don't.
    Hey! It'S JoeyBatS

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartron_44 View Post
    Question answered...Kawasaki sent down to make room for Reyes.

    New question...was this the right answer to this problem?

    Over the last 2 weeks (when we have been playing so well):

    Kawasaki: .286/.400/.619 with 2 triples and a HR.
    DeRosa: .143/.333/.214 with 0 RBI's
    Izturis: .289/.319/.511 with 2 HR's and 4 doubles
    Bonifacio: .226/.226/.323 with 3 doubles

    Out of all those possible solutions at 2B, Kawasaki has been giving us the most at the dish with an OPS over 1.000. I really don't understand this decision. Kawasaki has shown enough arm strength to play second base, he just crow hops from SS to get his feet moving in the right direction to ensure a good throw when he has a chance. When he needs to rush the throw he has shown the ability to snap it over there. I think he has as much arm strength as Boni, and should be playing 2B for us today with Reyes at SS and Izturis at 3B.

    Please AA, trade Boni or Oliver and bring Kawasaki back!!!...at least until Lawrie is ready to play 3B. We have a stolen base threat on the bench in Davis (and a better one), so there is no need to keep a speed guy around who can't get on base to use that speed.. He has 6 BB's and 49 K's in 196 AB's...and has an OPS under .450 this month ffs.

    This was not the right solution imo.
    His OPS was not over 1.000 it was .662, and his On base percentage was .337,
    Last edited by Monkefied; 06-26-2013 at 10:36 AM.

  15. #15
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    Don't agree with move get rid of derosa and trade boni/oliver

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