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  1. #1
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    Melo at the 3 or 4 next year?

    Reading through some of the recent threads, it seems a lot of us want to scrap the small ball Knicks since we lost to Indy. Big Baby seems like a popular guy to get to play the 4.

    I for one think we should stay with Melo playing the pseduo-4 next year. What I really mean is I think we should stick with the lineup structure of PG/2 shooters/Melo/Chandler.

    So I guess what I'm really asking is do you want a traditional 4 man in our main lineup next year?

  2. #2
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    Here are some of the reasons I think we should stick with Melo at the pseudo-4 (i.e. PG/2 shooters/Melo/Chandler):

    1. This team proved we are extremely successful with the PG/2 shooters/Melo/Chandler structure.
    We built a good identity with this lineup, I don't want to have to go through another year of acclimating a new team. Another year of chemistry with this group will be more successful than acclimating a new system. Look how our record suffered when Amare played. And Amare played well. Our offense just dies when Chandler is rendered useless playing next to a traditional 4 man.

    2. Our team, as presently constructed (i.e. with Chandler as our center, Felton at PG), suits Melo at the pseudo-4.
    Chandler is never going to be an above average offensive center, so his offensive value is maximized by putting him in P&Rs and giving us "vertical spacing" if you will. Getting a new PF to play next to Chandler will not be that much more successful than playing Amare (unless this new PF has 3 point range, in which case we are essentially playing Melo at the pseudo-4).
    Also, our PG (Felton) does not have a reliable shot. We saw how Indy just sagged Hibbert in all P&Rs daring Felton to shoot. The paint will be even more packed for Felton and Melo if we added in a traditional 4 man, on top of teams disregarding Chandler.

    3. Our best player (Melo) is best suited without a traditional 4 man.
    Again, the paint was already packed when he tried to drive against Indy and Hibbert was already stationed in there waiting for him. If we add another nonshooter to the mix, on top of Felton and Chandler, Melo will have no driving lanes whatsoever. He will just be regulated to shooting pull up jumpers.

    4. We were extremely close to beating Indy.
    We didn't lose because of our small ball identity. If anything, we played worse when Woodson scrapped that in game 4 and started Kmart and Chandler. We still got outrebounded by a dozen that game iirc. The point of playing small is to have shooting and spacing. Well we were playing nonshooters for a lot of the series, like Kidd instead of Cope. So we weren't playing to our true spacing identity. That doesn't mean we should scrap it.

    5. Indy might not be this good next year (they might lose West)
    Indy is a small market team on a budget. They are probably going to lock up George with a max extension this summer. Hibbert already got a max deal. Granger is making 14m, but he comes off the books soon. If they are thinking a couple years down the line when George and Hibbert are making 15m+, Hill is making his current 8m, and Stephenson is making more than his current 900k, it might be tough to give West a longterm offer. Somebody can swoop in with a 4 year deal that Indy can't offer. I'd say it's still likely West stays though.

    6. Our spacing lineup can play with Miami.
    Yes, we see Indy's bullyball lineup giving Miami lots of problems. And I think Indy will actually beat them. But we are not going to magically find a highly skilled offensive center that's a beast on D like Hibbert. And the traditional 4 man we get through some sort of trad will not be as good as D West. With Chandler as our center, playing big against Miami won't work as well as it does for Indy since he's not Hibbert on offense. But our current lineup of PG/2shooters/Melo/Chandler worked wonders against Miami in the regular season. Lets stick with that.

    7. Copeland
    We played much better against Indy when Cope got minutes. He can guard some of the 4s out there, and give Melo a little break on defense/boards. And then on offense, we still would have PG/2 shooters/Melo/Chandler structure. His development can be huge for us.

    *** If we got a point guard who can shoot off the P&R or a center who could reliably hit the midrange pick and pop shot, this would be a different story. But finding a new PG or C is not a better proposition than building off the team we have now IMO.
    Last edited by nytunnelvision; 05-26-2013 at 02:07 PM.

  3. #3
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    At the 3, and then trade for a real PF like Millsap or Hickson...

  4. #4
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    With the roster the Knicks have currently you have to play Melo at the 4. Knicks don't have a true power foward with a low post game. There is no reason to force it and put a defensive guy at the 4 since Chandler is already giving you nothing on offense out of the 5 besides pick and roll dunks.

    It's sad that the 6 foot 10 100 million dollar man can't handle power fowards or centers and can't do what we paid im to do.

  5. #5
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    Well, we had the third best ranked offense and Melo had the best year of his career with him playing at the 4.

    That's in terms of regular season success.

    As for the playoffs, I don't know. The Bulls and Pacers absolutely manhandle weak front courts and Melo isn't exactly suited to bang with those guys at the 4 spot.

    On the other hand, we match up really well with Miami with Melo at the 4. But it's pointless if we never get to play Miami because we can't beat the Bulls or Pacers. But I don't think we can beat Miami with a traditional lineup.


  6. #6
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    If you stick melo at the 4 he'd probably be forced to retire in 2-3 years.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hustla23 View Post
    Well, we had the third best ranked offense and Melo had the best year of his career with him playing at the 4.

    That's in terms of regular season success.

    As for the playoffs, I don't know. The Bulls and Pacers absolutely manhandle weak front courts and Melo isn't exactly suited to bang with those guys at the 4 spot.

    On the other hand, we match up really well with Miami with Melo at the 4. But it's pointless if we never get to play Miami because we can't beat the Bulls or Pacers. But I don't think we can beat Miami with a traditional lineup.

    Our lack of versatility is our biggest weakness IMO. Other teams can shift their rotations and become different teams. Melo at the 4 clearly gives our team the best chance at winning most nights but most of the playoff teams will match up well against that. We need to work on becoming more versatile EVEN if it means more losses during the regular season. We need to turn Amare into an impact player. If that means we have plays where Felton and Amare run pick and roll while Melo plays the wing to stretch the defense so be it.

    If I am Woodson or whoever is responsible for the offense I go to Melo and ask him what do want? Scoring titles or championship runs? I don't see whats the harm in ISO Melo one play and then pick and roll with Amare in the next play. What about a pick and pop with Melo and Amare? People think we have low IQ players, it does look like it at times. Maybe its a chemistry thing? We have had different key players at different times and people have been hurt. IDK, I think it can work. I also think Melo's shooting is a great indicator of what to do. If his jumper is going down then you play big with Amare and Chandler. If he is struggling you move him to 4 to get him a better match up. We need to be able to play both ways if we want deep playoff runs.

    We have role players like Shump and hopefully Smith + Prigs who can knock the 3 ball down. That is fine but we CANNOT live and die by the 3. We will die over and over again. We have a small window and its our only choice IMO. I am pretty sure Melo at the 3 or 4 isn't the problem. He can do both as long as others do their job and take some defensive pressure off of him.

    The other weakness we have is the lack of passing from our bigs. You look at all these other teams, their bigs create easy offense for their perimeter players. I would like to see Amare and Chandler work on passing. Its a big time aspect that many overlook.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dmagic87 View Post
    Our lack of versatility is our biggest weakness IMO. Other teams can shift their rotations and become different teams. Melo at the 4 clearly gives our team the best chance at winning most nights but most of the playoff teams will match up well against that. We need to work on becoming more versatile EVEN if it means more losses during the regular season. We need to turn Amare into an impact player. If that means we have plays where Felton and Amare run pick and roll while Melo plays the wing to stretch the defense so be it.

    If I am Woodson or whoever is responsible for the offense I go to Melo and ask him what do want? Scoring titles or championship runs? I don't see whats the harm in ISO Melo one play and then pick and roll with Amare in the next play. What about a pick and pop with Melo and Amare? People think we have low IQ players, it does look like it at times. Maybe its a chemistry thing? We have had different key players at different times and people have been hurt. IDK, I think it can work. I also think Melo's shooting is a great indicator of what to do. If his jumper is going down then you play big with Amare and Chandler. If he is struggling you move him to 4 to get him a better match up. We need to be able to play both ways if we want deep playoff runs.

    We have role players like Shump and hopefully Smith + Prigs who can knock the 3 ball down. That is fine but we CANNOT live and die by the 3. We will die over and over again. We have a small window and its our only choice IMO. I am pretty sure Melo at the 3 or 4 isn't the problem. He can do both as long as others do their job and take some defensive pressure off of him.

    The other weakness we have is the lack of passing from our bigs. You look at all these other teams, their bigs create easy offense for their perimeter players. I would like to see Amare and Chandler work on passing. Its a big time aspect that many overlook.
    I agree on most points. Most intriguing point you've brought up is giving up some wins during the regular season to get the players more acclimated to different setups during the playoffs. That would be pretty key.

  9. #9
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    It really just depends on matchups and that's on the coach if we play big teams we need davis or somebody to start against those teams while putting melo at the 3 but against most teams melo should stay at the 3

  10. #10
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    Melo is a 3 and should play the 3. Question is, who will start @ 4? Hate the small ball crap. Killed us in the playoffs

  11. #11
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    We need to draft a 4 or make a trade for one

    I like Udoh, Dieng, & keeping Martin

  12. #12
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    I'm just throwing this out there, but this is those moments I wish we would have kept Davis Lee. I'm sorry but he fits what we need as a PF next to Anthony. He can get double-doubles on limited touches and can dish from the high and low post oh and he can shot from 18ft pretty good. Yeah his defense isn't something to die for but **** looks better than Stats at this moment. SMH, Just had a Nando moment...

    Anthony is better off playing the 3 spot when you have a PF who has inside/outside capabilities, but also is efficient. The key to a winning Anthony team is players around him who are efficient with the attempts they get per game. We all know Anthony has a high usage rate and it won't change.

    Instead of looking for high volume shooters, we should be looking at players who brings both defense and a high efficient offensive game.

  13. #13
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    Depends on who is on the roster next year...

    I am probably the only Knick fan on here that will continue to stand by this statement:

    JOSH SMITH is the PERFECT complement to Melo. Somehow someway this has to happen.
    AS MJ WOULD SAY " IS THIS SIGNATURE IN VIOLATION NOW..."

    "Isiah's about as safe as me in a room full of cookies, If I'm in a room full of cookies the cookies ain't got no chance." --- Sir Charles

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhymeratic View Post
    Depends on who is on the roster next year...

    I am probably the only Knick fan on here that will continue to stand by this statement:

    JOSH SMITH is the PERFECT complement to Melo. Somehow someway this has to happen.
    it wont

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhymeratic View Post
    Depends on who is on the roster next year...

    I am probably the only Knick fan on here that will continue to stand by this statement:

    JOSH SMITH is the PERFECT complement to Melo. Somehow someway this has to happen.
    I agree, he's the perfect compliment. Has a mid range game, plays defense, yada, yada, yada - and he also thinks he's a MAX player - so can imagine how this happens.


    My man Ike got a bad rap

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