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  1. #1
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    Shank asks Ortiz about the juice

    http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/20...zrO/story.html

    Hitting is not this easy. Athletes do not get better as they mature into their late 30s. Baseball has been peppered with performance-enhancing drugs for the last 20 years. The cheaters are always ahead of the testers. A number of players from the Dominican Republic have tested positive for steroids. Injuries to the Achilles’ tendon are consistent with steroid use. It is not natural for a guy to hit .426 out of the gate without the benefit of any spring training.

    So David Ortiz knows. He knows he is a suspect. He knows there are people out there who think he’s cheating. His name appeared on a list of players who tested positive for PEDs in 2003. And what he is doing now just doesn’t look possible.

    When you cheat at cards, they tell you to lose a couple of hands to make it look good. Ortiz can’t even seem to do that. He just keeps raking. Ortiz Tuesday night extended his hitting streak to 27 games, dating to last July, before he got hurt.

    ‘My bat speed has been the same since the first day I got here.’

    This is an uncomfortable topic, but it’s preferable to question a man face-to-face than to tarnish him by whisper and innuendo. I went to Ortiz Tuesday afternoon in the Sox clubhouse and put some hard questions to him. I told him he looks dirty.

    Did he hear the fans in Toronto chanting, “Steroids!’’?

    “No, not really,” said Ortiz. “Why?’’

    Because what you are doing looks too good to be true.

    “They test me all the time,” he said. “They make you pee and they test your blood, too. This year I would say I’ve probably been tested five times, peeing. Blood, just once. That was in spring training. They don’t warn you. They just show up.’’

    What it is like to be suspected?

    “I don’t think I have been,” he said. “Nobody comes to me and tells me, ‘They suspect you are using steroids.’ ’’

    But you fit all the models. You are from the Dominican Republic. You are an older player. Older players don’t get better. You’ve had injuries consistent with steroid use. You showed up on the list from 2003. You fit all the formulas.

    “[Expletive], I’m a human being just like everyone else,” said Ortiz. “You can get worse or you can get better. One or the other.’’

    But in 2009, you didn’t hit a home run until May 20. Now this. You are Baseball Rambo. What is the difference?

    “In 2009, I was coming back from a hand injury [partially torn sheath, left wrist],” he said. “I injured my hand, badly. I tried to come back, but I wasn’t the same. It carried over until my hand started feeling better. I got bad habits from that.

    “Once I started feeling better, I went back to be who I was. It wasn’t any different. I went back to hitting homers like I was doing before that. It wasn’t like I started hitting homers after I figured it out in ’09.’’

    But it’s like you’re a different hitter now from what you were then (Ortiz hit .238 in 2009).

    “Where are you trying to go with this? That’s my question. If you work hard, you’re not supposed to get better?’’

    No, but the rest of us don’t get better when we get older. I could touch the rim when I played basketball in high school. I’m not out there throwing down dunks today.

    “Basketball is not the same,” said Ortiz. “I don’t forget about hitting the damn fastball. I go up there” — he points to the weight room — “and I bench press 400 pounds. Every other day. If I don’t do it, I’m not going to feel as strong as I am.

    “I don’t like to be talking about this steroid thing because people get the wrong idea.’’

    But how can your bat speed be better now than it was when you were 34? How do you do that?

    “It ain’t better,” he said. “My bat speed has been the same since the first day I got here.

    “I just don’t want no misunderstanding ’cause I got no time for this [expletive] right now.’’

    But hitting is really hard and you are making it look so easy. No spring training. You are hitting .426.

    “It is not easy, bro. My good day, I go 0 for 4. It’s not easy. It just happens.

    “We work consistently to get better. I don’t work consistently in the cage every day, I don’t hit every day in batting practice, I don’t watch video every day to get worse. If I want to get worse, or if I’m expecting to get worse, I come here and sit in my chair and 10 minutes before the game I get up.

    “No. I get here at 2 o’clock and I have a whole routine like everyone else to do well. One day it’s not going to continue happening and I’m fine with it.’’

    Do you understand why people are suspicious?

    “I don’t care about what people say, bro. People don’t feed my family. I feed my family.

    “You are never going to make everybody happy, bro. That’s the bottom line. If you struggle, it’s bad. If you do well, it’s bad, too.

    “I don’t care. I don’t got nothing to hide, bro. Testing is not my problem. Being tested — I ask to go in to get it done. I got no problem with that. I’m not going to screw everything that I have done in my career because I test positive for steroids. That’s not going to happen.

    “If I can’t get it done anymore because I can’t get it done? I go home. But not because of that [expletive].

    “I guarantee you that later, you are not going to find out that I tested positive for some [expletive]. It’s not happening. Guaranteed. Guaranteed.’’

    ################################################## ##########

    Well, Shank was being pretty fair, except not mentioning the minor league PA's...

    The happy days of the first few weeks are drying up. Two hurt closers, 3B that can't get his strike zone in order, SS still wrapping up ST, Felix can't get deep in games, Salty ? meh, and David is juicing...

    Now we'll see if it's a real team, or it was an early season chimera.
    Last edited by bagwell368; 05-08-2013 at 07:34 AM.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  2. #2
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    Drew in his last 10 games has been batting around .400. Looks like he's turning a corner.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by goshhhjosh View Post
    Drew in his last 10 games has been batting around .400. Looks like he's turning a corner.
    Yeah, I pointed that about 3-4 games ago. Still on the season overall, he's been a downer. OTOH WMB is a bigger downer because we have no depth at 3B behind him, even though we've had all sorts of can't miss kids coming up through the system the last 3-4 years. On the positional player side 3B has to be the biggest headache - at least at SS we have D in the system. Oh yeah, we're pretty screwed at 1B too....

    Anyhow back to Ortiz.... he stuck his neck out, he must have the cheating down or be clean to say those things.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    Yeah, I pointed that about 3-4 games ago. Still on the season overall, he's been a downer. OTOH WMB is a bigger downer because we have no depth at 3B behind him, even though we've had all sorts of can't miss kids coming up through the system the last 3-4 years. On the positional player side 3B has to be the biggest headache - at least at SS we have D in the system. Oh yeah, we're pretty screwed at 1B too....

    Anyhow back to Ortiz.... he stuck his neck out, he must have the cheating down or be clean to say those things.
    Yeah the NESN people have been stating that due to Drew's injury he didn't really have a ST. They were stating that he's just surpassed the AB's he would have had in ST. Oh well.

    In regards to WMB, he's been pretty terrible this year at the plate. Aside from the 3 (almost 4) HR game against Toronto, he's been invisible. He K's way too much and can't take a walk to save his life. Sub Mendoza line...yikes. If Bogaerts doesn't stick at SS (assuming he progresses as he is just a prospect) he could be moved to 3B. Also, down in Salem Cecchini has been raking, but they're not going to make an impact for awhile (assuming they pan out.)

    On the Ortiz front, I sure hope he isn't juicing, as it would be extremely demoralizing to the fans and the team. I don't think he's juicing, but if I see a fake website pop up (a la Melky Cabrera) I'll be pissed.

  5. #5
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    The question that wasn't asked >>> "What exactly are you taking to enhance your performance?"

    All of these guys are using everything they can, so what is Ortiz using?

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by MG956 View Post
    The question that wasn't asked >>> "What exactly are you taking to enhance your performance?"

    All of these guys are using everything they can, so what is Ortiz using?

    Jeeez. So why not just ask "when did you stop hitting your wife?" while you're at it.

  7. #7
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    Personally, I'm not a fan of Shank the Ginger. I've never cared for him as a person or human being. I don't like the fact that he's trying to stir something up. Ortiz as stated has been tested randomly for steroids or PED's and we're assuming that he's passed all of the tests. Unless, Shank has inside information that a positive test is coming down the pipe.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by goshhhjosh View Post
    Personally, I'm not a fan of Shank the Ginger. I've never cared for him as a person or human being. I don't like the fact that he's trying to stir something up. Ortiz as stated has been tested randomly for steroids or PED's and we're assuming that he's passed all of the tests. Unless, Shank has inside information that a positive test is coming down the pipe.
    +1. Can't stand the guy. At all.

    As for the torrid pace, he wants the best of both worlds. It's a 27-game hitting streak when that's an advantage... or a .427 average when that's an advantage. Have your cake and eat it too.

    At any rate, I think we're seeing little more than SSS. In 2005 Clint Barmes hit .410/.467/.639 for the month of April. He was hitless in only 5 of 21 games. This was the season in which he missed a couple months after a fall trying to carry deer meat. He finished .289/.330/.434. Not bad for a 75 OPS+ career hitter but still I think it makes the point: just about anyone can have a hot start.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by goshhhjosh View Post
    Personally, I'm not a fan of Shank the Ginger. I've never cared for him as a person or human being. I don't like the fact that he's trying to stir something up. Ortiz as stated has been tested randomly for steroids or PED's and we're assuming that he's passed all of the tests. Unless, Shank has inside information that a positive test is coming down the pipe.
    I hate Shank, but he's got the goods on this one. It's a valid question. Supposedly the "clear" clears the system inside of 48 hours, so wait around for a day off, and have a quick cycle. Go take a look at a picture of Ortiz and Ramirez before they came here. Huge heads, huge weight gain, massive performance for uptick for Ortiz. Time for Sox fans to stop protecting their heroes because of the laundry.

    Ortiz is a Saint to Red Sox fans. But why don't they ponder why his personal trainer was banned by MLB?


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedSoxtober View Post
    just about anyone can have a hot start.
    But less do it w/o no spring training, and a few minor league PA's. And fewer have increased in size more than Ortiz from the day he got to the Sox, to 6-7 years later. He wasn't hitting just the iron, and getting thirds at the buffet line (although clearly he passed up few meals).
    Last edited by bagwell368; 05-08-2013 at 06:53 PM.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  11. #11
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    David Ortiz ‏@davidortiz 28s
    End of my hitting streak tonight the season stil going and l hope Dan shaugnessy is a happy man now... Not more 426 enjoy it✌


    BOOOM... shaugnessy is a dick

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by grandsalami View Post
    David Ortiz ‏@davidortiz 28s
    End of my hitting streak tonight the season stil going and l hope Dan shaugnessy is a happy man now... Not more 426 enjoy it✌


    BOOOM... shaugnessy is a dick
    A pro athlete can't handle very well founded questions, and the writer is a dick? No, the player has clay feet, and the pink hats are rallying to the colors regardless of the truth.

    Amazing, a 20-8 start turns this forum from a graveyard of disappointment, to a gang of sycophants.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    I hate Shank, but he's got the goods on this one. It's a valid question. Supposedly the "clear" clears the system inside of 48 hours, so wait around for a day off, and have a quick cycle. Go take a look at a picture of Ortiz and Ramirez before they came here. Huge heads, huge weight gain, massive performance for uptick for Ortiz. Time for Sox fans to stop protecting their heroes because of the laundry.

    Ortiz is a Saint to Red Sox fans. But why don't they ponder why his personal trainer was banned by MLB?
    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    But less do it w/o no spring training, and a few minor league PA's. And fewer have increased in size more than Ortiz from the day he got to the Sox, to 6-7 years later. He wasn't hitting just the iron, and getting thirds at the buffet line (although clearly he passed up few meals).
    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    A pro athlete can't handle very well founded questions, and the writer is a dick? No, the player has clay feet, and the pink hats are rallying to the colors regardless of the truth.

    Amazing, a 20-8 start turns this forum from a graveyard of disappointment, to a gang of sycophants.
    It seems you have had it out for Ortiz the past two years because he has outplayed your personal projections for him. Not trying to call you out, but it just seems pretty obvious. You have called for his decline for two years in a row, and no doubt it should have come, but he has out performed it. And now it seems you are looking for reasons why to justify your previous stance.

    I am by no way saying he isn't juicing or gaining some sort of advantage, but I think we can agree we are happy with it as long as it doesn't come back to hurt the club.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boston-Born View Post
    It seems you have had it out for Ortiz the past two years because he has outplayed your personal projections for him.
    Check your facts. Ortiz has outplayed his FG WAR $ once in the last five full seasons. Not very stellar is it?

    My belief in my abilities to judge baseball (using the written results here) is far beyond being wrong in some cases - which clearly does not apply here. Have at my POV's, just be ready for me to have at yours.

    Not trying to call you out, but it just seems pretty obvious.
    What? That you're wrong, or that your an Ortiz ball washer?

    You have called for his decline for two years in a row, and no doubt it should have come, but he has out performed it.
    Outperformed what? He was hitting well last year, then missed a ton of games - for which he was still paid for, and in fact DID not earn his money last year. You claim a hitter missing 72 games in a year is a good thing?

    He's already missed games this year, and I expect he'll miss more, many have him at missing more this year than last year.

    And now it seems you are looking for reasons why to justify your previous stance.
    I brought up a piece by a well known Boston sports writer. You say I have an agenda? Fine, what's your agenda? Using innuendo to poke at someone with an opinion you don't like? What's your excuse/shield? You're a fan of the Red Sox - oh well, of course, sorry..... GMaFB.

    I am by no way saying he isn't juicing or gaining some sort of advantage, but I think we can agree we are happy with it as long as it doesn't come back to hurt the club.
    In the real world that's a perfectly reasonable POV. Too bad you can't accept someone digging into Ortiz. He's a public figure in a public occupation. He gets to face difficult questions as anyone else would. To think or believe otherwise is to be a homer.

    BTW, do create a list of hitters of about Ortiz's height and weight at this age before the steroid era and tell me how many were hitting this well this late in their career? Doesn't anybody think that this is odd? Angel Presinal might have something to say (MLB banned trainer Ortiz used to use).
    Last edited by bagwell368; 05-09-2013 at 11:56 AM.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    Check your facts. Ortiz has outplayed his FG WAR $ once in the last five full seasons. Not very stellar is it?

    Did I say WAR or did I say your projections?

    My belief in my abilities to judge baseball (using the written results here) is far beyond being wrong in some cases - which clearly does not apply here. Have at my POV's, just be ready for me to have at yours.


    What? That you're wrong, or that your an Ortiz ball washer?

    Never been an Ortiz ball washer. This has nothing to do with what/how I feel about Ortiz. It's about my perception of how you have a blatantly negative opinion of him.

    Outperformed what? He was hitting well last year, then missed a ton of games - for which he was still paid for, and in fact DID not earn his money last year. You claim a hitter missing 72 games in a year is a good thing?

    Again, I said your projections, not his actual value in terms of WAR

    He's already missed games this year, and I expect he'll miss more, many have him at missing more this year than last year.

    We get it, you think Ortiz will under perform this year....

    I brought up a piece by a well known Boston sports writer. You say I have an agenda? Fine, what's your agenda? Using innuendo to poke at someone with an opinion you don't like? What's your excuse/shield? You're a fan of the Red Sox - oh well, of course, sorry..... GMaFB.

    You brought up a piece by a hack. A Boston sports writer who is out to make a name for himself with shock value and personal agenda issues. Buy his book? How was it?

    In the real world that's a perfectly reasonable POV. Too bad you can't accept someone digging into Ortiz. He's a public figure in a public occupation. He gets to face difficult questions as anyone else would. To think or believe otherwise is to be a homer.

    BTW, do create a list of hitters of about Ortiz's height and weight at this age before the steroid era and tell me how many were hitting this well this late in their career? Doesn't anybody think that this is odd? Angel Presinal might have something to say (MLB banned trainer Ortiz used to use).

    Again, I don't know how hard this is to comprehend... I am not saying he isn't using. This all started with the fact you seem to have it out for Ortiz. For all we know he is using, and Clay is using sunscreen, and the bullpen guys are stealing the catchers signs..... I don't care about that part of this and I never have. I was stating your obvious distaste for Ortiz. Plain and simple.
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