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  1. #1
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    Evaluation of Thibs

    Where do you guys rank Thibs? Evaluate his Defensive and Offensive schemes.

    I personally think he's a top 3 coach in the league production wise and everyone knows he brings a legendary defensive coaching scheme.

    I wanted to get you guys opinion on his offensive scheme and his staying power?

    Do you think he can ease up a little or is he a great version of Scott Skiles that will soon wear down his players?

  2. #2
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    Top 3 in league.

    Pop, Carl and Thibs are my top 3.

  3. #3
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    Top 3. His biggest/only flaw is playing stars in garbage minutes. I was at the game Rose tore his ACL and i told my brother, they should take him out, the game is over. Idk why he does that. So stupid. give radmonovic some minutes when were up by 20 rather than have Noah play

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badluck33 View Post
    Top 3 in league.

    Pop, Carl and Thibs are my top 3.
    Adelman in my eyes would be in the discussion, but he can never get a healthy team.
    Last edited by ChitownbullsBG7; 02-17-2013 at 05:59 PM.

  5. #5
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    His biggest flaw is that he's stubborn. It works both for him and against him. As everyone knows, he has a tendency to overplay some of his guys no matter the situation. When you think of guys like Phil Jackson and Pop, they realized the importance of resting their guys. Albeit, Pop has and is still growing as a coach. He's changed a bit over the years and PJ had a more veteran team but the season is a marathon. I think sometimes he can lose sight of that in his homicidal work ethic\we have enough to win mentality.

    He's still easily a top 5 coach and maybe\probably top 3 despite his iffy rotations at times. I think he's gonna have to realize he's not perfect and make some adjustments that may go against what he believes in. That's tough to do. He's a stubborn guy but being stubborn is the quickest way to shortchange yourself in the end.

  6. #6
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    ugh this board (dbl post)

  7. #7
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    I know (almost certain) he wants to start Taj & Butler! I personally wish he would just do it. Anyone else have thoughts on this? I feel our points against would drop a lot (like better than last year)

    Also does anyone think there is a good chance we get that back up center soon? Is the trade deadline our only option? Say if there was someone good in Free Agency or on D. League (not saying there is), could we sign him after the trade deadline? If nothing happens, would you suspect an issue behind the scenes or just feel we probably tried but couldn't get anyone or???

  8. #8
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    Evaluation of Thibs

    Defensively: A+
    The best in the league. Nobody comes close to his attention to detail, the way he puts all players in a position to succeed on rotations and allows everyone to utilize their strengths. His coaching outside of games is also unbelievable --- prior to his arrival, Deng wasn't first-team defender. Noah wasn't near the discussion for DPOY. His impact on NBA-ready defenders in Gibson/Butler is harder to gauge but he surely has helped them on rotations and footwork. Insert Omer Asik's improvement defensively as well, Boozer's growing aptitude and the emergence of Marco/Korver as "solid" defenders and there's nothing else to mention...

    But wait... Rose is now an elite defender at his position. We all longed for the day where we could say he's an all-around player, the poor execution of defending a pick and roll under Vinny and so on. Now, those days are far removed from the present and almost inadvertently wiped from memory.


    Offensively: B
    Simple. Non-imaginative. But wonderfully effective when the team is at full strength. The ball-movement, double screens, high/low passing between big men, the cutting... it's all wonderful. And with Rose, the team's easily a top-10 offense and arguably top-5 (2011-12 we were a top-5 offense). But, it's not all fine and dandy. We go away from Boozer too much still. The fast-break execution is pitiful the majority of the time, and it's hard to put all of that on the players. With his defense, he puts everyone in a position to succeed. I can't say he does that all the time offensively.


    Coaching: A
    He has the respect of his players, all of them. He has the respect of the FO and the entire league. He's a tough-minded coach that wants you to give it all. Can the get gruesome and tiring? Sure, but the results are there and everyone loves them. He tends to play certain guys too much as well, but at least he chooses the right guys. His timeout plays are productive. I'm sure I'm forgetting something else, but I'll leave it at that.

  9. #9
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    I say Spo is #1
    The Quest For Lombardi
    Bringin' It Back Home


    Where It All Began

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shammyguy3 View Post
    Evaluation of Thibs

    Defensively: A+
    The best in the league. Nobody comes close to his attention to detail, the way he puts all players in a position to succeed on rotations and allows everyone to utilize their strengths. His coaching outside of games is also unbelievable --- prior to his arrival, Deng wasn't first-team defender. Noah wasn't near the discussion for DPOY. His impact on NBA-ready defenders in Gibson/Butler is harder to gauge but he surely has helped them on rotations and footwork. Insert Omer Asik's improvement defensively as well, Boozer's growing aptitude and the emergence of Marco/Korver as "solid" defenders and there's nothing else to mention...

    But wait... Rose is now an elite defender at his position. We all longed for the day where we could say he's an all-around player, the poor execution of defending a pick and roll under Vinny and so on. Now, those days are far removed from the present and almost inadvertently wiped from memory.


    Offensively: B
    Simple. Non-imaginative. But wonderfully effective when the team is at full strength. The ball-movement, double screens, high/low passing between big men, the cutting... it's all wonderful. And with Rose, the team's easily a top-10 offense and arguably top-5 (2011-12 we were a top-5 offense). But, it's not all fine and dandy. We go away from Boozer too much still. The fast-break execution is pitiful the majority of the time, and it's hard to put all of that on the players. With his defense, he puts everyone in a position to succeed. I can't say he does that all the time offensively.


    Coaching: A
    He has the respect of his players, all of them. He has the respect of the FO and the entire league. He's a tough-minded coach that wants you to give it all. Can the get gruesome and tiring? Sure, but the results are there and everyone loves them. He tends to play certain guys too much as well, but at least he chooses the right guys. His timeout plays are productive. I'm sure I'm forgetting something else, but I'll leave it at that.
    This is a great breakdown first off. But I'd give him a B- or C+ type grade on Offense. This is my personal opinion and I'd like to get your take and whoever wants to chime in also. I feel he benefits from our guys unselfishness. I think he does a great job at preaching ball movement but most coaches do that already. At some point during the Heat series our Offense seemed too predictable it basically consists of ball screens, draw and kicks, sprinkled with post ups. As engaged on Defense as he is, he kind of takes a step back on offense.

    I feel like Lu gets lost in the offense and under utilized. This could partially be due to his high amount of mpg but I feel he could make a larger impact under a more well-rounded coach. (not saying I want a new coach)

    One thing I would like to see more from lu is him posting up more from the mid post. I feel if his number was called as if he was a second option he would be a more productive player. I love the ball movement and overall team approach but I feel like this team can do so much better with more clearly defined roles on offense. Other than Derrick I feel nobody really gets into a rhythm on a nightly basis. On a nightly basis anybody can be our second leading scorer which is good but in a way it's bad also. When a one and two scoring option is clearly defined it allows role players to know where they fit in and have a good idea where they are going to get their shots from. I also feel allocating someone else to be a focal point would also relieve pressure off Rose offensively. Rose taking more open spot up jump shots. I feel we are so concentrated on getting another ball handler/playmaking star if we use our current players differently it can alleviate the need for a star and more of a player that is within our grasp like Redick or OJ.

    I would like to get you and other Bulls fans take on our offensive structure? Would we be better off featuring Boozer or Deng as our second option or Is the whole 1st and 2nd option overrated?

  11. #11
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    I think while you're spot on with certain points, I can't help but disagree. I don't think Deng is under utilized, first off. He's at best a good 2nd option, but realistically a very good 3rd option. Take Rose out of the equation, and you then have to move pieces around. When those pieces get moved around, the clearly defined roles on offense aren't as clearly defined. Those pieces don't fit, and the "smooth around the edges" part become rough.

    "When pigs fly" --- Think of Deng as the pig. And think of Carlos Boozer as a penguin. Neither one of them can fly. Would we love for both of them to all of a sudden fly? Sure. But it's never been in Deng's nature to fly, he's not that type of player that can be a legitimate 25% usage type of player with above average efficiency. Boozer used to be able to fly --- he was a perennial 20+ppg and 10+rpg type of player for 4-5 seasons of his career. Now though, he's lost that ability. Just like through evolution the penguin branched off from your typical bird and can no longer take to the air.

    So, I can't blame Thibs for what he's done with our offense with Derrick Rose out. And when Rose was healthy, there were still improvements to be made for the offensive scheme, but it definitely was one of the most efficient offenses in the league because we had the right pieces fitting into the right spots.

    The "night in and night out" 2nd option to me is overrated. It's not necessary, so long as someone else or multiple other players step up on a given night. If the cars are produced, it doesn't matter if they're produced in Los Angeles or in Italy. ESPECIALLY when you factor in the Bulls' defense.

  12. #12
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    I think while you're spot on with certain points, I can't help but disagree. I don't think Deng is under utilized, first off. He's at best a good 2nd option, but realistically a very good 3rd option. Take Rose out of the equation, and you then have to move pieces around. When those pieces get moved around, the clearly defined roles on offense aren't as clearly defined. Those pieces don't fit, and the "smooth around the edges" part become rough.

    "When pigs fly" --- Think of Deng as the pig. And think of Carlos Boozer as a penguin. Neither one of them can fly. Would we love for both of them to all of a sudden fly? Sure. But it's never been in Deng's nature to fly, he's not that type of player that can be a legitimate 25% usage type of player with above average efficiency. Boozer used to be able to fly --- he was a perennial 20+ppg and 10+rpg type of player for 4-5 seasons of his career. Now though, he's lost that ability. Just like through evolution the penguin branched off from your typical bird and can no longer take to the air.

    So, I can't blame Thibs for what he's done with our offense with Derrick Rose out. And when Rose was healthy, there were still improvements to be made for the offensive scheme, but it definitely was one of the most efficient offenses in the league because we had the right pieces fitting into the right spots.

    The "night in and night out" 2nd option to me is overrated. It's not necessary, so long as someone else or multiple other players step up on a given night. If the cars are produced, it doesn't matter if they're produced in Los Angeles or in Italy. ESPECIALLY when you factor in the Bulls' defense.

  13. #13
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    When you have a playoff team like the bulls where your main shot creator is Nate and Marco and with them you win >50% of the games... to do that you got to have (strong defense) a good off coach.

    I dont understand about tatics but i also think that we dont do fast brakes because we dont want to "brake the team" defensively. Thibs likes controled speed and pace so he can control his defense.

    We must also count offsensive rebounds has an offensive (second shot opportunities) action that thibs cares a lot.

  14. #14
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    It's not really fair to credit Thibs for offensive rebounds. It's not as if he plans on those occurring, we simply have personnel that are good at getting offensive boards. And the team doesn't execute fast breaks (transition offense) well that often because they don't have their best person to initiate said break (Derrick Rose) and we simply don't have the most athletic guys that are great at attempts near the rim (like Nate, he's small... Marco/Deng/Boozer/Noah all not great athletes, etc).

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shammyguy3 View Post
    It's not really fair to credit Thibs for offensive rebounds. It's not as if he plans on those occurring, we simply have personnel that are good at getting offensive boards. And the team doesn't execute fast breaks (transition offense) well that often because they don't have their best person to initiate said break (Derrick Rose) and we simply don't have the most athletic guys that are great at attempts near the rim (like Nate, he's small... Marco/Deng/Boozer/Noah all not great athletes, etc).
    He but when people thought deng had all-star superstar potential, it was when we were an open court team under smiles. Offense from defense. Deng was Mr. And1. Mid range and fast break.

    Deng would be great in the open court but even when we push the ball it seems like he isn't up the court as much as he was in 06-07.

    This is my opinion but I think he would be much better in a fast pace offense but he is so fundamentally sound that he is also pretty damn good in a half court system.

    I understand rose isn't here but the pg always comes back for the ball which gives the other team even more of a chance to set up. If we pushed the ball more, there is no doubt in my mind that we would be top 10 in ppg instead of 27th. Even without our former MVP.

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