Official 2012-13 Trade / Roster Discussion Thread Pt 2

[Bob_at_york]

Hey guys, your last thread was quite large. It was time for a new one.




Added by bholly:

Post all your trade and FA stories and ideas and discussions here.

Stories with links from LEGIT sources get their own thread and need to be appropriately titled. Everything else goes in here. If you aren't sure, it probably goes in here.

Last thread is here:
http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/sho...on-Thread-Pt-1

[CinnPirate]

CONTINUED FROM LAST THREAD. SORRY I DON'T KNOW HOW TO RE-QOUTE THIS.

Originally Posted by Bajecco
This strategy is all about dumping salary. Getting a high draft pick is a byproduct of dealing away as many high dollar players as you can.

I personally think this is the approach we need to pursue. Even if the cap space is not for FA this offseason. Mayo would be the only player I would pursue hard, with two lesser contracts to Al-Farouq Aminu and Dorell Wright.

It could also be used for 2014 Wade, LeBron, Bosh, Melo can all become FA there will be some nice players that fall through the crack. I would focus my the restricted FA though, Favors or Cousins and through contracts at either one that their teams won't want to match.

However, the cap space is the way to go. If you look at what the Cavs are trying to do. They realize they aren't competing so they are making moves by taking on bad contracts and gaining future picks to do so. By the time they are ready to compete the contracts will be up and they will be a roster full of young talent just beginning to peak with cap space to bring in the FA to put them over the top.

The Sixers and this FO office need to make the decision to make this team over from scratch around Jrue and Bynum (with a contingency plan if he is a bust). And stop teetering on the fence of trying to be contenders and rebuilding.

[Bajecco]

Chad Ford is chatting right now over at ESPN. He was just asked about Turner value.

Chad Ford: I think Turner is one player who is definitely available. Ditto for Spencer Hawes. That package should be able to get them a quality player. They seem to be to be a natural fit for Josh Smith ... however they face the same dilemma everyone does with Smith. He's an unrestricted free agent this summer. He wants A LOT of money. No one wants to trade valuable assets for a guy who could be a two to three month rental.

[wannabGM]

I think this Dwight/Bynum obsession might be the wrong path. One is a big muscle with little skill that might have peaked as a player at an early age and took a small step back this year. The other is peaking at the right time but has the knees of a 50 y/o. When Bynum plays, I might change my opinion. But to those of you thinking a Bynum/Thad front court might be contender-worthy, I think you are in for a rude awakening.

And paying Josh smith close to what he wants is ludricous.

Am I the only one who thinks that Moving Thad's contract for value/role players, getting a new coach, and then trading Bynum for anything we can get is the way to move forward?

[Bajecco]

Am I the only one who thinks that Moving Thad's contract for value/role players, getting a new coach, and then trading Bynum for anything we can get is the way to move forward?

I absolutely have no problem with that line of thinking. Collins is a great basketball coach, but needs to go because he hinders the development of young players. If he's proven anything during his coaching career it's that he's not the guy to coach young rebuilding teams.

[urban85disciple]

I think this Dwight/Bynum obsession might be the wrong path. One is a big muscle with little skill that might have peaked as a player at an early age and took a small step back this year. The other is peaking at the right time but has the knees of a 50 y/o. When Bynum plays, I might change my opinion. But to those of you thinking a Bynum/Thad front court might be contender-worthy, I think you are in for a rude awakening.

And paying Josh smith close to what he wants is ludricous.

Little skill? The guy is a 3x DPOY, 7x All-Star, dunk champion who averages 16 & 12 plus 2.5 blocks (while playing w/ Kobe). Even if he has peaked, he's still the best center in the league right now. Personally, I'd take him over Bynum 10/10 strictly because of the knee issue. Dwight could be 100% healthy next season. Bynum will never be 100% healthy for the rest of his career; he only has like 85% of his body left.

I'm more interested in a Hawes/Bynum frontcourt, myself.

Am I the only one who thinks that Moving Thad's contract for value/role players, getting a new coach, and then trading Bynum for anything we can get is the way to move forward?

New coach? Yes. Trade Bynum? Maybe. Moving Thad for role players? Nah. No way you get back the amount of value you're trading away. Why pay 2-3 players the amount you paid 1 if they can't provide the same production? Thad is slightly overpaid, but so is Paul Millsap, Carl Landry, Carlos Boozer, etc. You're not gonna find a bargain anymore with the way GMs are overpaying players, especially PFs & Cs.

[wannabGM]

Little skill? The guy is a 3x DPOY, 7x All-Star, dunk champion who averages 16 & 12 plus 2.5 blocks (while playing w/ Kobe). Even if he has peaked, he's still the best center in the league right now. Personally, I'd take him over Bynum 10/10 strictly because of the knee issue. Dwight could be 100% healthy next season. Bynum will never be 100% healthy for the rest of his career; he only has like 85% of his body left.

I'm more interested in a Hawes/Bynum frontcourt, myself.



New coach? Yes. Trade Bynum? Maybe. Moving Thad for role players? Nah. No way you get back the amount of value you're trading away. Why pay 2-3 players the amount you paid 1 if they can't provide the same production? Thad is slightly overpaid, but so is Paul Millsap, Carl Landry, Carlos Boozer, etc. You're not gonna find a bargain anymore with the way GMs are overpaying players, especially PFs & Cs.

I meant little skill on the offensive end. And if Dwight was the same player he was 2 seasons ago, I think he'd be averaging 20+ on this Lakers team. I started to notice even last year, while his play hadn't dropped off something had physically. And this season it's worse, showing up in his play and his athleticism. He's still athletic, don't get me wrong. But as a player, it's his freakish athleticism that has made him special. Once he loses some of that due to either age or injury, does he continue to improve as a player? I could be wrong but I doubt it.

And trading away Thad doesn't mean you pay the same salary. Thad has I think 3 more years after this one. You could trade for shorter contract plus a young valuable role player or pick. We need to stay salary cap flexible. Thad clogs it beyond his value to becoming a contender. He represents mediocrity to me more than Iggy ever did.

[CinnPirate]

I love all the talk of moving Hawes and Thad. I still have yet to see any person here offer a legitimate destination for either... Maybe just maybe the Hawks, but I don't see how they don't get a better offer closer to the deadline when teams get desperate to make a run.

[wannabGM]

I've brought up potential Bobcats trades multiple times. It seems to me that would be a very legitimate destination for him. The return wouldn't be sexy. But that combined with the cap freedom would be what the doctor ordered.

[CinnPirate]

I've brought up potential Bobcats trades multiple times. It seems to me that would be a very legitimate destination for him. The return wouldn't be sexy. But that combined with the cap freedom would be what the doctor ordered.

Why would the Bobcats want either? Their cap next year is 40 million so its not like they have a ton of room to spare. I don't see how Hawes fits into their long term plan or playing style.

As for Thad they already have Mullens giving them essentially the same make about a 1/3 of Thad's contract. In addition they are invested Biyombo (really a PF) and Kidd-Gilchrist at SF, as their future. Bringing in Thad would give them an even smaller front court. That's not even beginning to mention that they have a ton of dead money locked up in Tyrus Thomas who plays Thad's PF/SF. Thad skill set is just redundant on their team.

[Bajecco]

The Bynum move was a step in the right direction even if we don't retain him. People can talk about how good Thad, Swaggy, Lavoy & Hawes are all they want, but it won't change the fact that this team is going to STINK until the get better players on the floor with Jru. If this supporting cast was as good as some think this team would have a winning record despite the loss of Bynum.

Since Collins took over we are 36-67 vs winning teams. That's ugly and it will get uglier because the East is getting stronger. Dramatic changes have to take place and praying for Bynum to get healthy isn't going to cut it. I'm not blaming Doug, but he certainly isn't going to win with the current squad. DiLeo and Collins want to see how this group plays with Bynum. They need to understand that this roster needs a makeover weather Bynum is here or not. I'm hopeful it starts before the deadline, but will be content if the makeover waits until the offseason.

[wannabGM]

Why would the Bobcats want either? Their cap next year is 40 million so its not like they have a ton of room to spare. I don't see how Hawes fits into their long term plan or playing style.

As for Thad they already have Mullens giving them essentially the same make about a 1/3 of Thad's contract. In addition they are invested Biyombo (really a PF) and Kidd-Gilchrist at SF, as their future. Bringing in Thad would give them an even smaller front court. That's not even beginning to mention that they have a ton of dead money locked up in Tyrus Thomas who plays Thad's PF/SF. Thad skill set is just redundant on their team.

Thad at PF is not redundant on that team. Mullens plays a different position, and has only shown flashes. MKG would start at SF, Thad at PF. Biyombo would probably have to be moved in the trade....to us or someone else. Tyrus Thomas is so God aweful of a basketball player at this point in his career that the Bobcats know that they are stuck with him and he is unlikely to earn playing time if they become a playoff team.

Thad would instantly make them competetive. As a FA destination, they are going to have to overpay for a Thad-level player anyway in the hopes of attracting someone. They'd be interested.

[thevcballer]

I meant little skill on the offensive end. And if Dwight was the same player he was 2 seasons ago, I think he'd be averaging 20+ on this Lakers team. I started to notice even last year, while his play hadn't dropped off something had physically. And this season it's worse, showing up in his play and his athleticism. He's still athletic, don't get me wrong. But as a player, it's his freakish athleticism that has made him special. Once he loses some of that due to either age or injury, does he continue to improve as a player? I could be wrong but I doubt it.

And trading away Thad doesn't mean you pay the same salary. Thad has I think 3 more years after this one. You could trade for shorter contract plus a young valuable role player or pick. We need to stay salary cap flexible. Thad clogs it beyond his value to becoming a contender. He represents mediocrity to me more than Iggy ever did.

Dwight is hurt -_- dont you have any idea whats going on?

[thevcballer]

All this trade talk this soon is silly we need to take time to see everyone on the court before we overreact i really do believe this team is good enough to be a contender next season

[CinnPirate]

Thad at PF is not redundant on that team. Mullens plays a different position, and has only shown flashes.

Thad would instantly make them competetive. As a FA destination, they are going to have to overpay for a Thad-level player anyway in the hopes of attracting someone. They'd be interested.

Mullens has only shown so few flashes, that his averages are on par with Thad (Thad 14.9 PPG/7.4 RPG vs Mullens 12.6 PPG/8.1 RPG - in about 4 less MPG).

I'm sorry when did Thad become an All-Star? Hell is he even on the All-Star ballet??? The Bobcats are 12-39 his addition does not make them even remotely competitive what are you smoking?!?! Both Mullens and Biyombo combined earn about $1 Million less and get the same production out of Mullens and Biyombo still gives them a player with potential.

FA destinations are overrated if you have the players in place and cap space available you can sign free agents. A team of Biyombo, Kidd-Gilchrist, Walker and couple of another lottery picks is more attractive than Thad, Kidd-Gilchrist, Walker, mediocre picks (if he does infact improve them even a little) and less cap space.

By the way Thad IS OVERPAID for his THAD LEVEL TALENT!

EDIT: Thad hasn't even significantly helped us or made us competitive and we have better talent here. In Charlotte he'll have even less talent around him and teams he won't be as open as he is here with Jrue, etc on the court.