Top players per position for 2013

[VRP723]

Felix Hernandez to me is easily the 3rd best pitcher in baseball.

Give me AJ Ellis over Pierz.

[C-ross12]

Mauer over Molina?

Pujols still over Votto?

Rizzo over Craig?

Cano the third best second basemen after last year?

I'm an absolute sucker for Mauer. I love Molina, so you could certainly certainly sway me from that.

Pujols still over Votto. Another monster year from Votto and another regression type season and Votto will be number 1.

Rizzo over Craig was another close one. Either one could be better in 13. But I think Rizzo is the real deal and could ops over .900 with solid D, if everything goes accordingly.

How the hell did I have Cano at 3? Delete, delete delete. Hes Number 1. Dont know how I missed that.

[Jeffy25]

Strasburg is 16th?! No way.

Would like to see him throw more than 160 innings.

I'm sure he'll be great this year. But durability does matter. Of course, it wasn't his fault that he was shut down.

Felix Hernandez to me is easily the 3rd best pitcher in baseball.

Then make a list, pretty silly to ridicule a list and not make one yourself.

And as I said, it's far from a final list.

Give me AJ Ellis over Pierz.

Naw, 30 something catcher who was horrible after 70 games into the season

From May 20th he hit .249/.343/.383 with a negative WPA well over 1.000.

I'm going more so with the 'nobody knew how to pitch to him yet' factor for his high OBP.

Pierz out his Ellis again last year, and while defensively I'm sure Ellis is better than Pierz I'd like to see more than a first full season at the age of 31 to believe he will be any good again.

I'm an absolute sucker for Mauer. I love Molina, so you could certainly certainly sway me from that.

Pujols still over Votto. Another monster year from Votto and another regression type season and Votto will be number 1.

Rizzo over Craig was another close one. Either one could be better in 13. But I think Rizzo is the real deal and could ops over .900 with solid D, if everything goes accordingly.

How the hell did I have Cano at 3? Delete, delete delete. Hes Number 1. Dont know how I missed that.

O Jeffy, you still have no idea where to place Cain on a top pitchers list. Without hesitation, he should be higher then Dickey, Cueto, Wainwright, Sale, and Weaver based on longevity and durability. You can also make very compelling arguments that he has been much more consistent then Hamels and Price. All he does is pitch 200+ innings every year, gives up hits at an elite low level, gives up runs at a well below average clip (park adjusted). All of this while greatly improving his periphals (K's and BB's) over each of the last 3-4 years. Then throw in the 2 WS rings with a 0 ERA in 2010 and 3 series clinching wins in 2012 playoffs.

You know the story on Cain like everyone else does.

It's the ugly periphs, although they are improving.

But let's ignore the periphs

His pitching ranks for the last few seasons, which will ignore the uglier FIP and xFIP but rather focus on what he is good at doing, run prevention


2012
rWAR - 23rd
ERA+ - 18th

2011
rWAR - 28th
ERA+ - 26th

2010
rWAR - 23rd
ERA+ - 27th

His durability allowed him to be as high as 14th. His rate stats don't make him belong there.

[canefandynasty]

Did you just make that stuff up?

Heyward Career: .261/.352/.447 -- .350 wOBA -- 118 wRC+ -- 34.3 UZR 10.8 BSR -- 13.7 WAR

Stanton Career: .270/.350/.553 -- .383 wOBA -- 140 wRC+ -- 21.3 UZR -- -6.3 BSR -- 13.1 WAR

That is including Heyward injury riddled 2011. Take that out and he is at ~ .365 wOBA, 125 wRC+ career, with better defense and better base running than Stanton.

Its close either way. You are acting like Heyward is trash and Stanton is the second coming of Christ. It is probably the closest 1-2 of the whole list, so dont act like its so obvious.

You're way off buddy. That "Heyward had a injury-riddled 2011 season" doesn't work. Stanton has had injury issues just like Heyward. Injuries are part of the game.

The fact is, Stanton has showed an upward trend the last 2 seasons since their rookie season while Heyward hasn't improved much offensively since his rookie season:

* fWAR and rWAR rate per 600 PA

2011 STATS
Heyward 2.76 fWAR rate* | 3.16 rWAR rate* | .313 wOBA | 95 wRC+
Stanton: 4.49 fWAR rate* | 3.89 rWAR rate* | .381 wOBA | 140 wRC+

2012 STATS
Heyward: 6.08 fWAR rate* | 5.07 rWAR rate* | .351 wOBA | 120 wRC+
Stanton: 6.95 fWAR rate* | 6.48 rWAR rate* | .405 wOBA | 156 wRC+

Stanton has easily been the better player after rookie campaign and it shouldn't really be a debate. Heywards the better defender, but the Stanton is no butcher on defender. If he was, then this would be a debate. Stanton's offensive gap is too wide for this comparison to be considered close.

[Jeffy25]

You're way off buddy. That "Heyward had a injury-riddled 2011 season" doesn't work. Stanton has had injury issues just like Heyward. Injuries are part of the game.

The fact is, Stanton has showed an upward trend the last 2 seasons since their rookie season while Heyward hasn't improved much offensively since his rookie season:

* fWAR and rWAR rate per 600 PA

2011 STATS
Heyward 2.76 fWAR rate* | 3.16 rWAR rate* | .313 wOBA | 95 wRC+
Stanton: 4.49 fWAR rate* | 3.89 rWAR rate* | .381 wOBA | 140 wRC+

2012 STATS
Heyward: 6.08 fWAR rate* | 5.07 rWAR rate* | .351 wOBA | 120 wRC+
Stanton: 6.95 fWAR rate* | 6.48 rWAR rate* | .405 wOBA | 156 wRC+

Stanton has easily been the better player after rookie campaign and it shouldn't really be a debate. Heywards the better defender, but the Stanton is no butcher on defender. If he was, then this would be a debate. Stanton's offensive gap is too wide for this comparison to be considered close.

you speak of rate.

But you have to be on the field to create value.

[sportscrazy34]

I wouldn't be surprised if stanton had a bad year this season. He is unhappy and playing with a triple a team. He'll probably get the pitch around treatment pretty bad.

[Bravo95]

There ain't 10 ML shortstops better than Simmons.

EDIT: Also, Justin Upton will be playing left field. Adjust your lists accordingly.

[canefandynasty]

you speak of rate.

But you have to be on the field to create value.

True. Injuries are part of the game, but the rate stats pretty much how much value they have when healthy.

[canefandynasty]

There ain't 10 ML shortstops better than Simmons.

EDIT: Also, Justin Upton will be playing left field. Adjust your lists accordingly.

One of the very few times I've actually agreed with a Braves fan.

[More-Than-Most]

Utley will prove everyone wrong.

[jej]

You're way off buddy. That "Heyward had a injury-riddled 2011 season" doesn't work. Stanton has had injury issues just like Heyward. Injuries are part of the game.

The fact is, Stanton has showed an upward trend the last 2 seasons since their rookie season while Heyward hasn't improved much offensively since his rookie season:

* fWAR and rWAR rate per 600 PA

2011 STATS
Heyward 2.76 fWAR rate* | 3.16 rWAR rate* | .313 wOBA | 95 wRC+
Stanton: 4.49 fWAR rate* | 3.89 rWAR rate* | .381 wOBA | 140 wRC+

2012 STATS
Heyward: 6.08 fWAR rate* | 5.07 rWAR rate* | .351 wOBA | 120 wRC+
Stanton: 6.95 fWAR rate* | 6.48 rWAR rate* | .405 wOBA | 156 wRC+

Stanton has easily been the better player after rookie campaign and it shouldn't really be a debate. Heywards the better defender, but the Stanton is no butcher on defender. If he was, then this would be a debate. Stanton's offensive gap is too wide for this comparison to be considered close.

Once again, I said it was close. After looking closer I may go Stanton too. But it's not some blowout like you want to believe. I'm guessing you are a Marlins fan too, so there's that.

Stanton may be > Heyward, but it's not like Heyward is way down the list and its crazy to have him one. He is definitely number two.

Also, their WARs suggest that Heywards D does overcome Stanton's offense.

[mtf]

RF
1. Stanton
2. Heyward
3. Beltran
4. Bautista
5. Swisher
6. Reddick
7. Hunter
8. Rios
9. Choo
10. Upton

I'm not sure what criteria you're using, but it really surprised me that you had Jose Bautista behind those 3 guys.

[Bravo95]

One of the very few times I've actually agreed with a Braves fan.

Try it more often. It's good for the soul.

[jej]

I'm not sure what criteria you're using, but it really surprised me that you had Jose Bautista behind those 3 guys.

Well Bautista is a lot older, and was hurt/struggled last year.

[Fly]

To 'canefandynasty':

Don't act as if the 1-2 of Heyward & Stanton should be some type of blowout with Stanton taking the cake. Your rate stats are all nice and dandy unless one of the players has shown he can't stay on the field while the other played 158 games last year. Like Jeffy said, you have to be on the field to create value.

Heyward is a much more complete player than Stanton in my opinion. Jason's one of the best defensive right fielders in years, and while Stanton is no slouch defensively himself he doesn't come close to touching Heyward. J-Hey is also easily the superior baserunner by far, and I know it's shocking but defense and baserunning matter.

Also, please stop using WAR as your end all, be all stat. Doing that really just shuts you out to actually viewing how well a player is doing. You say that there's no other stat that can provide a view on how good a player is. That may or may not be true, but you're acting as if you can only look at one stat. You have all the information in the world available to you on the internet, use it.