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  1. #121
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    considering lakers wont accept any deal where the filler for bargnani is not named lowry or derozan, i say its not a good idea.
    add the fact that pau and gay DONT LIKE each other.
    add that pau would be hindering valanciunas in the bench, ( he is a center right now, he cant cover the small PF taht teams are playing in defense).
    add that pau would not thrive in a fast system,

    Oh and while we are at it, how bout checkign the Lowry+gay+gasol grizzlies record?


    look somwhere else, will be better for you.

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellcrooner View Post
    considering lakers wont accept any deal where the filler for bargnani is not named lowry or derozan, i say its not a good idea.
    add the fact that pau and gay DONT LIKE each other.
    add that pau would be hindering valanciunas in the bench, ( he is a center right now, he cant cover the small PF taht teams are playing in defense).
    add that pau would not thrive in a fast system,

    Oh and while we are at it, how bout checkign the Lowry+gay+gasol grizzlies record?


    look somwhere else, will be better for you.
    I agree croons

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bramaca View Post
    Teams that win championships have superior top end talent and not necesarily superior support players (whether they be starters or off the bench). Thats where the major problem lies for the Raps is the top end talent and not somebody like Amir being a starter or not.
    totally right. people often seem to have the notion that the way to winning is basically cramming the 5 most talented players possible into the starting lineup and that's almost never the case. it's a combination of a select few top end players and solid role players that wins almost every time. ego has killed more talented teams than any other factor imo.

    do you agree Bramaca that with the current composition of our starting lineup (minus the PF position), Lowry/Derozan/Gay/Valanciunas (i include Val because he is clearly the future at that position, at least as it looks now) that it is far more important to have someone like Amir at PF as apposed to "upgrading" to a more talented offensive player?

    basically the kind of player i would target at PF with that group would be someone who is the anti-bargs (doesn't shoot much, provides superior defense and rebounding/lane intimidation). whoever it is basically has to thrive without the basketball imo.
    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    well unfortunately it looks like you were right about Bargs...

    but hopefully we can use his expiring, if not at least we unloaded Novak's deal...

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jobe View Post
    i think its huge. jack and devlin said something last night about the clippers culture and teams that aquired clippers players. one of them talked to an executive and they said it would take those teams a year to get the clipper out of the player.
    what a great quote. i like that and tend to agree. losing, like winning becomes a habit that you get used to.
    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    well unfortunately it looks like you were right about Bargs...

    but hopefully we can use his expiring, if not at least we unloaded Novak's deal...

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by deaner View Post
    http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=akfqymd

    Then this:

    http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=bjbopqn

    It gives the lakers a Acy for Clark switch that saves them quite a bit of money for the next two years to compensate for field's contract.

    Oops. Klieza or Feilds... Whomever they want. If they took Feilds.. Klieza could be amnestied this offseason.

    Deaner that's an absolutely crazy deal. If the Lakers are trading the best player (by far) the Raptors will not be able to land him without giving back a minimum of two players the Lakers covet.

    I agree that the Lakers are our best bet for getting value for Bargnani because D'Antoni covets (or in my opinion overvalues) Bargani, but even then if you are giving up the best player there is absolutely no reason to accept filler. It's up to the Raps to provide enough quality parts to cover Gasol's salary. If the Raptors end up landing Gasol I will be totally stunned. They had the pieces to get Gay/Gasol IMO, not both.
    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    well unfortunately it looks like you were right about Bargs...

    but hopefully we can use his expiring, if not at least we unloaded Novak's deal...

  6. #126
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    Although I agree it's a lowball offer for gasol... I'd like to think the market for him is small. He's not going to be happy in many places IMO plus how many teams can/would take on his contract. For Dantoni, Bargs is the perfect match with Howard.

    I think we undervalue Bargs.
    Last edited by deaner; 02-03-2013 at 08:27 AM.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by deaner View Post
    Although I agree it's a lowball offer for gasol... I'd like to think the market for him is small. He's not going to be happy in many places IMO plus how many teams can/would take on his contract. For Dantoni, Bargs is the perfect match with Howard.

    I think we undervalue Bargs.
    Gasols market right now is MINIMUM.

    Rockets decided to go other way.
    Wolves refuse to include pekovic or Kirilenko, making the deal imposible maths way unless is a three way.
    Hawks have rejected to deal them smith for Pau ( altough that is not out of the question if J Smith goes "Melo" on them before the deadline
    )But they would probably preffer a three way ( thats an otpion for raptros).

    Celtics: I guess have fallen out of the picture when Rondo and sullinger went down, unless they fool lakers into green+crap, wich is not happening.

    Golden State : has always been an after tought, and have only had marginal interest, and they are doing well.

    So righ now IMO the "market" for Gasol is just TWO teams.
    Raptors.
    And Nuggets.

    havent heard of any other team with a legit interest in him.
    And since lakers wont acept Bargs without either lowry or Derozan.
    And nuggets wont Surrender Gallo ( thats who dantoni would like).

    I think Pau stays until the summer at least.

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamiecballer View Post
    totally right. people often seem to have the notion that the way to winning is basically cramming the 5 most talented players possible into the starting lineup and that's almost never the case. it's a combination of a select few top end players and solid role players that wins almost every time. ego has killed more talented teams than any other factor imo.

    do you agree Bramaca that with the current composition of our starting lineup (minus the PF position), Lowry/Derozan/Gay/Valanciunas (i include Val because he is clearly the future at that position, at least as it looks now) that it is far more important to have someone like Amir at PF as apposed to "upgrading" to a more talented offensive player?

    basically the kind of player i would target at PF with that group would be someone who is the anti-bargs (doesn't shoot much, provides superior defense and rebounding/lane intimidation). whoever it is basically has to thrive without the basketball imo.
    This is exactly what I think ... Amir fits that role to a T..... Hard working, doesn't need plays called for him, , doesnt need the ball , and willing to do whatever the team needs him to do on any given night ( and never complains about it ) Amir is the perfect starter for the group we have IMO....

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellcrooner View Post
    considering lakers wont accept any deal where the filler for bargnani is not named lowry or derozan, i say its not a good idea.
    add the fact that pau and gay DONT LIKE each other.
    add that pau would be hindering valanciunas in the bench, ( he is a center right now, he cant cover the small PF taht teams are playing in defense).
    add that pau would not thrive in a fast system,

    Oh and while we are at it, how bout checkign the Lowry+gay+gasol grizzlies record?


    look somwhere else, will be better for you.
    this is how many years ago? players changed. not saying this is going to work but you could say it was the coach or the system they were or other factors that contribute to the mess. They didn't have a JVal, a Derozan, a Terrence Ross or an Amir Johnson on the team.

    imo, i don't like Pau cuz he's old and slow but he's crafty and he's a vet. If Pau was the last piece and we needed that guy at the PF position, go for it. but right now, we're not even in the playoff picture. maybe in the off season when Bargnani gains some trade value.



  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by koreancabbage View Post
    this is how many years ago? players changed. not saying this is going to work but you could say it was the coach or the system they were or other factors that contribute to the mess. They didn't have a JVal, a Derozan, a Terrence Ross or an Amir Johnson on the team.

    imo, i don't like Pau cuz he's old and slow but he's crafty and he's a vet. If Pau was the last piece and we needed that guy at the PF position, go for it. but right now, we're not even in the playoff picture. maybe in the off season when Bargnani gains some trade value.
    Prime Mike Miller? , Navarro? stromile Swift?
    Ok it was not a GREAT team , but they should ahve won at least 40 games, not 20 something.
    not to mention at this point pau is a center,like td or garnett, they cant get away playing pf any longer.
    Last edited by Hellcrooner; 02-03-2013 at 09:07 AM.

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bramaca View Post
    Teams that win championships have superior top end talent and not necesarily superior support players (whether they be starters or off the bench). Thats where the major problem lies for the Raps is the top end talent and not somebody like Amir being a starter or not.
    While I agree I also think we have some issues with talent and depth in our frontcourt.

  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamiecballer View Post
    totally right. people often seem to have the notion that the way to winning is basically cramming the 5 most talented players possible into the starting lineup and that's almost never the case. it's a combination of a select few top end players and solid role players that wins almost every time. ego has killed more talented teams than any other factor imo.

    do you agree Bramaca that with the current composition of our starting lineup (minus the PF position), Lowry/Derozan/Gay/Valanciunas (i include Val because he is clearly the future at that position, at least as it looks now) that it is far more important to have someone like Amir at PF as apposed to "upgrading" to a more talented offensive player?

    basically the kind of player i would target at PF with that group would be someone who is the anti-bargs (doesn't shoot much, provides superior defense and rebounding/lane intimidation). whoever it is basically has to thrive without the basketball imo.
    i agree that you don't need guys who are sexy scorers in the starting 5 but put in some rugged blue collar type players, and the lineup works better. I remember saying a long long time ago that we should've been targeting these type of players when we had Calderon-Derozan-Turkoglu-Bosh-Bargnani as our starting 5. Oakley mentioned it too during that same season, that the Raptors starting lineup needed to take out one or two of their offensive minded players and put in some blue collared grit

    just like when they put dennis rodman and one time oakley with MJ and Pippen. they also had Toni Kukoc who was a PF that could score, didn't rebound well, come off the bench and was one of their main scorers. Maybe Bargnani could be that Toni Kukoc on this team

  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellcrooner View Post
    Prime Mike Miller? , Navarro? stromile Swift?
    Ok it was not a GREAT team , but they should ahve won at least 40 games, not 20 something.
    prime mike miller was not great either. navarro was just an offensive spark plug and stromile swift was absolutely garbage

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellcrooner View Post
    considering lakers wont accept any deal where the filler for bargnani is not named lowry or derozan, i say its not a good idea.
    add the fact that pau and gay DONT LIKE each other.
    add that pau would be hindering valanciunas in the bench, ( he is a center right now, he cant cover the small PF taht teams are playing in defense).
    add that pau would not thrive in a fast system,

    Oh and while we are at it, how bout checkign the Lowry+gay+gasol grizzlies record?


    look somwhere else, will be better for you.
    I posted it somewhere else: 22-60 for the two seasons they were together. Things have changed since then, especially for Pau, but I get the point about recreating the 2006-08 Grizzlies here.

  15. #135
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    I think this deal is more dependent on the Lakers FO's desperation to get rid of Gasol plus their eagerness to acquire Bargnani more so than Colangelo's wanting to break that attachment with his former no.1 pick.

    So if the former outweighs the latter, most likely they will eat the contract of either Fields or Kleiza as an add-on to Bargs.

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