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  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tmath View Post
    We are much more younger, talented & athletic compared to that 2007 team.
    There's no doubt about that. No doubt. I commented on the athleticism of some of our players last night. It's amazing. And I think all of us are really happy to be moving away from the plodding shooters toward a way more dynamic lineup.

    I was talking about the situation of having some $$$ to spend and some assets to move and how it seems like he's doing his second rapid overhaul.

  2. #92
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    I'm not to sure how healthy Gasol is but yeah I'd be down now, if it was a trade involving just Bargs and other fillers. I just don't really see Lakers falling for it unless Pau is really pissing them off. If Howard was a lock to resign then they might do it cause a Howard Bargnani front court could work well but looks like he won't. That would give us a solid starting five for a couple seasons and if it didn't work out 2 huge expiring players in two years from now.

    Lowry-Demar-Gay-Gasol-Val with a bench of Ross-Amir plus who ever else to fill the hole's. Barring any major injuries and the steady improvement of Ross-Val-DD that's a team that could do damage in the east.
    Last edited by LanceUpperCut; 02-02-2013 at 09:42 PM.

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jobe View Post
    anybody who thinks that amir is a starter in this league is crazy, he does not have the polish or the mid range game; great option off the bench though. I initially was against the raptors getting gasol but post gay trade it makes a lot of sense. i question how much gasol has left in the tank but watching him in the olympics, particularly in the final game against USA, he was outstanding and almost carried that team to victory. the situation in LA has runs its course with him and I think he is ready/needs a change. looking at the atlantic division, its down, now is the time for the raps to make a run. Dont pay attention to the conference, adding gasol would vaults the raps to the top of that division and will essentially guarantee a 3-4th seed. Looking at the conference as a whole, lot of questions as well, does west resign with the pacers? do the heat want to pay the luxury tax (will they break up the team), can they acquire more depth, their an aging team? will rose be the same dynamic player following his surgery? ppl talk about this is the time for the jays, this is the time for the raps. who cares about the cap hit, its not our money, do you expect to get something better in the offseason cause the last couple FA signings I remember are kapono, hedo, fields. the raps are not going to attract high end talent that way. Plus, not that much risk, raps will be buying low on a player with a short term contract and the potenial reward is high (ie. east conference finals?), millsap is a great option but he is an undersized PF, imo he would be plan B. acquiring a player like gasol with championship experience will go along way in an inexperienced locker room and in an inexperienced conference as there is not much championship pedigree when considering celtics are done, those old piston teams are done and they have dominated the ECF the past number of years. this is the time for the raps to make a move, and looking at how demar and gay meshed after only minutes of gay stepping into the locker room, there is tons of potential there. obviously i am talking about next year, its highly unlikely the raps make the playoffs but it would be great to acquire gasol now as the team will have time to gel and work towards next year.
    Amir's last ten games started, next to an undersized PF 30+ mins.

    OKC - 19pts / 9rbs / 3blks (8-11) 38mins
    Philly - 19pts / 12rbs / 5ast / 1stl / 1blk (6-11) 40mins
    Cats - 13pts / 8rbs / 2ast / 2blks (6-10) 30mins
    Bucks - 22pts / 14rbs / 4ast / 3stls / 2blks (9-16) 45mins
    Philly - 9pts / 5asts / 5stls / 2blks (4-8) 46mins
    Miami - 15pts / 6rbs / 2ast / 1blk (6-9) 32mins
    Magic - 21pts / 10rbs / 1ast / 3blks (9-18) 36mins
    Cavs - 18pts / 12rbs / 1ast / 1blk (7-12) 37mins
    Atlanta- 6pts / 14rbs / 4blks (3-12) 39mins (played PF)
    Clippers - 19pts / 16rbs / 3ast / 1blk (7-9) 37mins (played PF).

    He's 25, Call me crazy.

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by B2B View Post
    Amir's last ten games started, next to an undersized PF 30+ mins.

    OKC - 19pts / 9rbs / 3blks (8-11) 38mins
    Philly - 19pts / 12rbs / 5ast / 1stl / 1blk (6-11) 40mins
    Cats - 13pts / 8rbs / 2ast / 2blks (6-10) 30mins
    Bucks - 22pts / 14rbs / 4ast / 3stls / 2blks (9-16) 45mins
    Philly - 9pts / 5asts / 5stls / 2blks (4-8) 46mins
    Miami - 15pts / 6rbs / 2ast / 1blk (6-9) 32mins
    Magic - 21pts / 10rbs / 1ast / 3blks (9-18) 36mins
    Cavs - 18pts / 12rbs / 1ast / 1blk (7-12) 37mins
    Atlanta- 6pts / 14rbs / 4blks (3-12) 39mins (played PF)
    Clippers - 19pts / 16rbs / 3ast / 1blk (7-9) 37mins (played PF).

    He's 25, Call me crazy.
    and whats the raps record in that 10 game stretch. oh 4-6. and their overall record in that 14 game stretch since the OKC game? 5-9. amir has solid numbers and im not calling him terrible but the guy has no mid range game, his shot is terrible. its improving but it still has a long way to go. also, he has been in the league since he has been 18, so 25 is young but he is a veteran player in this league. amir is a scrapper and he is a great big off the bench but your not going to win a championship with this guy as your starting PF.
    now this isnt a shot at you or anybody in this forum but a shot at the raptors. the raptors franchise has a LONG losing culture and essentially we the fans are losers (not personally or socially) but as fans of a losing franchise. we see good players and think they are great becasue we have been subject to garbage for so many years. do you think a fan base of the lakers or mavericks would be so upset to trade 2 medicore players for a borderline all-star? the answer is no butsome raptors fans were up in arms. the raptors need to change the culture and get in winners and not stand for mediocrity. once the raptors change their culture, the culture of the fans and the perceptions of the fans will change. amir is a piece but he is by no means the main piece. gasol is a winner and will be a step in changing the culture of the franchise.

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jobe View Post
    and whats the raps record in that 10 game stretch. oh 4-6. and their overall record in that 14 game stretch since the OKC game? 5-9. amir has solid numbers and im not calling him terrible but the guy has no mid range game, his shot is terrible. its improving but it still has a long way to go. also, he has been in the league since he has been 18, so 25 is young but he is a veteran player in this league. amir is a scrapper and he is a great big off the bench but your not going to win a championship with this guy as your starting PF.
    now this isnt a shot at you or anybody in this forum but a shot at the raptors. the raptors franchise has a LONG losing culture and essentially we the fans are losers (not personally or socially) but as fans of a losing franchise. we see good players and think they are great becasue we have been subject to garbage for so many years. do you think a fan base of the lakers or mavericks would be so upset to trade 2 medicore players for a borderline all-star? the answer is no butsome raptors fans were up in arms. the raptors need to change the culture and get in winners and not stand for mediocrity. once the raptors change their culture, the culture of the fans and the perceptions of the fans will change. amir is a piece but he is by no means the main piece. gasol is a winner and will be a step in changing the culture of the franchise.
    Couldn't disagree more, Amir is exactly the type player that wins championships. He's the heart of the team with his effort & commitment, he's the teams best defender, he doesn't require touches while producing on good efficiency, being versatile enough to guard C/PF, come off the bench/start, with out complaining. This teams most consistent player. IMO invaluable.

    The fact the Raptors went 4-6 doesn't represent him as an individual. If your talking about his ability to carry a team, that's different. I'm suggesting he's a quality 2 way starter that doesn't require touches & should start.

    IMO he more than anyone, Davis included, deserves the opportunity.

    At this point I take Amir's production on a 6mil contract over Smith on a max deal.

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jobe View Post
    and whats the raps record in that 10 game stretch. oh 4-6. and their overall record in that 14 game stretch since the OKC game? 5-9. amir has solid numbers and im not calling him terrible but the guy has no mid range game, his shot is terrible. its improving but it still has a long way to go. also, he has been in the league since he has been 18, so 25 is young but he is a veteran player in this league. amir is a scrapper and he is a great big off the bench but your not going to win a championship with this guy as your starting PF.
    now this isnt a shot at you or anybody in this forum but a shot at the raptors. the raptors franchise has a LONG losing culture and essentially we the fans are losers (not personally or socially) but as fans of a losing franchise. we see good players and think they are great becasue we have been subject to garbage for so many years. do you think a fan base of the lakers or mavericks would be so upset to trade 2 medicore players for a borderline all-star? the answer is no butsome raptors fans were up in arms. the raptors need to change the culture and get in winners and not stand for mediocrity. once the raptors change their culture, the culture of the fans and the perceptions of the fans will change. amir is a piece but he is by no means the main piece. gasol is a winner and will be a step in changing the culture of the franchise.
    Gasol wouldn't be a bad player for the team but the idea that anybody who thinks Amir is a capable starter being crazy is a little extreme. He may not win the Raps a championship but he is good enough to be a starter on a championship team. There are plenty of bigs who started on championship teams that were worse then Amir overall or had no offensive game to speak of.

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tmath View Post
    People complain about being a lottery team for consecutive years then call for the GM's head, then call for the GM's head when he makes a trade to get us out of the lottery because they want a top draft pick.

    It really just how hard being a GM is, it is literally impossible to please everyone.
    it's not that hard. he's not supposed to try and please everyone. i'm sure the good GM's can sleep knowing that not everyone agrees with their decisions and only the weak character ones even worry about it in the first place.
    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    well unfortunately it looks like you were right about Bargs...

    but hopefully we can use his expiring, if not at least we unloaded Novak's deal...

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by B2B View Post
    Couldn't disagree more, Amir is exactly the type player that wins championships. He's the heart of the team with his effort & commitment, he's the teams best defender, he doesn't require touches while producing on good efficiency, being versatile enough to guard C/PF, come off the bench/start, with out complaining. This teams most consistent player. IMO invaluable.

    The fact the Raptors went 4-6 doesn't represent him as an individual. If your talking about his ability to carry a team, that's different. I'm suggesting he's a quality 2 way starter that doesn't require touches & should start.

    IMO he more than anyone, Davis included, deserves the opportunity.

    At this point I take Amir's production on a 6mil contract over Smith on a max deal.
    he is a great first option off the bench and a starter on a crappy team. he is one dimensional offensively and the raptors record does reflect because he is a member of the starting unit. i dont think smith is a good fit for this team but if your basing the decision not to sign josh smith because off how much money he makes compared to amir then you have it all wrong. smith is a far superior talent and teams that win championships have superior talent. do you think any of the top teams this year or teams that have won championships in the past couple of years would trade their top PF for amir? im not trying to bash amir but if your goal for this team is to win, him as your starter is not the answer. if you have a guy like lebron, jordan or durant i would change my stance but i dont see that as a realistic option for the raptors in the near future.
    Last edited by Jobe; 02-02-2013 at 11:44 PM.

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jobe View Post
    he is a great first option off the bench and a starter on a crappy team. he is one dimensional offensively and the raptors record does reflect because he is a member of the starting unit. i dont think smith is a good fit for this team but if your basing the decision not to sign josh smith because off how much money he makes compared to amir then you have it all wrong. smith is a far superior talent and teams that win championships have superior talent. do you think any of the top teams this year or teams that have won championships in the past couple of years would trade their top PF for amir? im not trying to bash amir but if your goal for this team is to win, him as your starter is not the answer.
    Teams that win championships have superior top end talent and not necesarily superior support players (whether they be starters or off the bench). Thats where the major problem lies for the Raps is the top end talent and not somebody like Amir being a starter or not.

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jobe View Post
    he is a great first option off the bench and a starter on a crappy team.
    Disagree but your entitled to your opinion,

    Quote Originally Posted by Jobe View Post
    he is one dimensional offensively and the raptors record does reflect because he is a member of the starting unit.
    I Don't think he's a threat offensively but underwhelming talent/chemistry will reflect poorly on anyone. Amir was efficient & played solid defense, he IMO did his part.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jobe View Post
    i dont think smith is a good fit for this team but if your basing the decision not to sign josh smith because off how much money he makes compared to amir then you have it all wrong. smith is a far superior talent and teams that win championships have superior talent.
    Amir plays within himself & is efficient, Smith has a low IQ which works negatively against his talent.

    Amir is cheaply invaluable to this team, Atlanta is about to let Smith walk before giving him the max.

    IMO Amir is not getting enough credit here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jobe View Post
    do you think any of the top teams this year or teams that have won championships in the past couple of years would trade their top PF for amir? im not trying to bash amir but if your goal for this team is to win, him as your starter is not the answer.
    Did I miss something, Lakers are considering trading Gasol for a struggling Bargnani, I would think they would love to land Amir.

  11. #101
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    For all those thinking gasol can play pf, he cant anymore. Hes not quick anymore plus Ima have to say no to this deal. Two pf i think fits perfectly is Milsap and Smith. Someone mentioned Cousins, I would do that deal only if there was a high chance he doesnt bring all that maturity and locker room issues with him

  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bramaca View Post
    Teams that win championships have superior top end talent and not necesarily superior support players (whether they be starters or off the bench). Thats where the major problem lies for the Raps is the top end talent and not somebody like Amir being a starter or not.
    i agree. im not bashing amir. a player like gasol, although aging, is still a top end talent. and for the raps to be successful they will have to pair that talent with talent off the bench and have a strong 8-10 man unit. the key to the raps success will be based on the strength of the bench. amir on a team with high front end talent could start and expect to play big minutes but the raptors dont have that talent and i dont expect them to acquire that talent in the near future. my big thing is that the raptors need to start changing their culture, i dont expect them to win a championship in the near future but i think acquiring a player like gasol will go along way in changing the culture and starting to establish a winning attitude. especially if you dont have to give up much to get him. if anything other players will take notice, much like they did when gay was acquired.

  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jobe View Post
    i agree. im not bashing amir. a player like gasol, although aging, is still a top end talent. and for the raps to be successful they will have to pair that talent with talent off the bench and have a strong 8-10 man unit. the key to the raps success will be based on the strength of the bench. amir on a team with high front end talent could start and expect to play big minutes but the raptors dont have that talent and i dont expect them to acquire that talent in the near future. my big thing is that the raptors need to start changing their culture, i dont expect them to win a championship in the near future but i think acquiring a player like gasol will go along way in changing the culture and starting to establish a winning attitude. especially if you dont have to give up much to get him. if anything other players will take notice, much like they did when gay was acquired.
    I don't think the 'changing the culture' thing is as big a deal. If you don't have the players to be a real contender then the changed culture will die quickly with the team thats not going to win anything.

  14. #104
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    Gasol won't be able to run with the young guns on this team.

  15. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bramaca View Post
    I don't think the 'changing the culture' thing is as big a deal. If you don't have the players to be a real contender then the changed culture will die quickly with the team thats not going to win anything.
    i think its huge. jack and devlin said something last night about the clippers culture and teams that aquired clippers players. one of them talked to an executive and they said it would take those teams a year to get the clipper out of the player. if paul leaves the clippers, the clippers will soon again become the lowly clippers. i dont think the raps have that type of label yet but if they keep losing year after year they will get it. i dont know who the raps would give up to acquire gasol, i didnt start the rumor, i dont have sources,i didnt start the thread but i think it would be a good idea and a good two year risk.

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