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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bramaca View Post
    It all depends what you 'matter' means. I think being a contender for a title is the definition of that, which I don't think the Raps current route will ever produce. Some people think making the playoffs consistently is the definition of that, which I don't agree with.
    I agree. When you become a team that makes the playoffs every year and never get out of the first two rounds it starts to get REALLY old really fast. That's my biggest concern here after this trade. Despite the laugher last night I don't expect other teams to lie down for us while we run fast breaks all night. I look at this lineup and I don't see serious contender, not even with the upside some of the players have. Problem is, if we climb in the standings we reduce our chances of getting more new young prospects to develop from within.

  2. #47
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    Not related to Gasol, but do you pull the trigger?

    Trade No. 4

    Cousins to the Toronto Raptors for Jonas Valanciunas.

    It is no secret that the Raptors are one of the teams most eager to trade, and this would be a no-brainer from a talent standpoint. Big V is still two years away from being a three-year project.
    http://www.sheridanhoops.com/2012/12...cus-cousins/2/

  3. #48
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    Considering it's the Lakers, the base would have to be Bargnani and Derozan/Ross. No thanks. Wait till the offseason to trade Bargnani. Trade him at the draft if need be.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by ink View Post
    I agree. When you become a team that makes the playoffs every year and never get out of the first two rounds it starts to get REALLY old really fast. That's my biggest concern here after this trade. Despite the laugher last night I don't expect other teams to lie down for us while we run fast breaks all night. I look at this lineup and I don't see serious contender, not even with the upside some of the players have. Problem is, if we climb in the standings we reduce our chances of getting more new young prospects to develop from within.
    Its a problem that the NBA has more then any other league. In other leagues making the playoffs means there is a chance to win the whole thing, sometimes not a great chance but a chance atleast. In the NBA that doesn't exist, a 5-8 seed in the playoffs hasn't even made the conference finals since the 90's let alone the finals. If a team isn't a top 4 seed there is zero chance to win and even then there are top 4 seeds that you know have no chance either.

    I am a huge advocate for the NBA going to a vertical division where everyone is playing for something.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by GodsSon View Post
    Not related to Gasol, but do you pull the trigger?



    http://www.sheridanhoops.com/2012/12...cus-cousins/2/
    No

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by GodsSon View Post
    Not related to Gasol, but do you pull the trigger?



    http://www.sheridanhoops.com/2012/12...cus-cousins/2/
    Naw, Cousins is a big ego maniac, don't think he'd get along

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bramaca View Post
    I am against the overall route that BC is taking the team, how he rushed the rebuild which resulted in very little in the way of high end picks which is where you generally get high end talent. Instead he is building around a core of not so high end talent. That is the reason I am not a huge fan of the Gay trade. Although as I mentioned in another thread the trade for Gay didn't really matter because BC had already moved beyond the point where he could realistically get high end talent in the draft.

    The contract of both Gay or Gasol doesn't really make much of a difference in my opinion. They are what they are. The reason I had interest in Gasol is as a mentor type role for JV which I think can be important for a developing young talent. Wasn't too concerned with whether or not Gasol made the Raps a winner, just what he brought for JV and the potential for ball movement among the bigs.
    The lottery is such a crapshoot, there really is no guarantee. How many years have we been in the lottery now?

    We may not have got a "franchise" talent but BC has done a good job at drafting where we were positioned.

    Selling high on a guy like Ed Davis, and an expiring contract in Jose to get a guy like Rudy Gay is almost like winning the lottery. And now we have a bunch of talented players in Rudy, Derozan, Ross, JV, Lowry and other really solid players like Amir, Fields & Acy.

    Its not easy to build a championship contending team, especially in this era where you have players dictating where they want to play. This team is exciting to watch now and there is still a lot of upside.

    I like the direction he has this team going, if everything goes right, we could be a 3-4 seed in the east next year or at the very least a 4-8 seed.
    Last edited by Tmath; 02-02-2013 at 03:54 PM.


    SWAGUEZ!!!

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by GodsSon View Post
    Not related to Gasol, but do you pull the trigger?



    http://www.sheridanhoops.com/2012/12...cus-cousins/2/
    Absolutely. If you're gonna abandon the rebuild and make hasty trades, this is the perfect move. For the type of build BC seems to be going for you need to do at least two things: 1) bring in overpaid guys through trades because they have reduced value and 2) bring in attitude problems through trades because they have reduced value. With this philosophy, you have abandoned the possibility of building through FA or the draft.

  9. #54
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    If the Raptors do trade Bargnani, Anderson is as good as gone.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bramaca View Post
    Its a problem that the NBA has more then any other league. In other leagues making the playoffs means there is a chance to win the whole thing, sometimes not a great chance but a chance atleast. In the NBA that doesn't exist, a 5-8 seed in the playoffs hasn't even made the conference finals since the 90's let alone the finals. If a team isn't a top 4 seed there is zero chance to win and even then there are top 4 seeds that you know have no chance either.

    I am a huge advocate for the NBA going to a vertical division where everyone is playing for something.
    and what is the probability that a team can build a contender from draft picks? In recent history I could think of 2 Cleveland and okc, and with our scouts do you really expect anything more than mediocrity out of our picks? As a frustrated raptors fan yes I would rather make the playoffs and lose in the first round than tank and screw up the draft again. Especially considering if we dont make the playoffs our pick is almost guaranteed to okc, our best pick in the last 9 years came in playoff 1st rounder territory anyway with Roy Hibbert, so why not?
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  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tmath View Post
    The lottery is such a crapshoot, there really is no guarantee. How many years have we been in the lottery now?
    How many years were we in the lottery with reasonable expectation for a good pick? One. There is a big difference between being the 7th through 14th worst team and one of the 3 worst teams.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tmath View Post
    We may not have got a "franchise" talent but BC has done a good job at drafting where we were positioned.

    Selling high on a guy like Ed Davis, and an expiring contract in Jose to get a guy like Rudy Gay is almost like winning the lottery. And now we have a bunch of talented players in Rudy, Derozan, Ross, JV, Lowry and other really solid players like Amir, Fields & Acy.

    Its not easy to build a championship contending team, especially in this era where you have players dictating where they want to play. This team is exciting to watch now and there is still a lot of upside.

    I like the direction he has this team going, if everything goes right, we could be a 3-4 seed in the east next year or at the very least a 4-8 seed.
    Getting Rudy Gay is not like winning the lottery, its what it is. Getting a borderline star player. You see the direction of being a 4th-8th seed as going in the right direction. I see at the upside of the treadmill process.

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvb815 View Post
    and what is the probability that a team can build a contender from draft picks? In recent history I could think of 2 Cleveland and okc, and with our scouts do you really expect anything more than mediocrity out of our picks? As a frustrated raptors fan yes I would rather make the playoffs and lose in the first round than tank and screw up the draft again. Especially considering if we dont make the playoffs our pick is almost guaranteed to okc, our best pick in the last 9 years came in playoff 1st rounder territory anyway with Roy Hibbert, so why not?
    Better then the probability of building a contender the way the Raps are currently building their team. If you are happy with making the playoffs and maybe getting to the second round then I understand why you are happy with the team. Enjoy it. I'm not, leave it at that.

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bramaca View Post
    Better then the probability of building a contender the way the Raps are currently building their team. If you are happy with making the playoffs and maybe getting to the second round then I understand why you are happy with the team. Enjoy it. I'm not, leave it at that.
    alright, it's a forum though, people with other opinions are going to argue with you, I'm sure a lot of fans are torn with this new path
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  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvb815 View Post
    alright, it's a forum though, people with other opinions are going to argue with you, I'm sure a lot of fans are torn with this new path
    They have and they do, thats fine. There wasn't any new points that I felt the need to address though.

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bramaca View Post
    How many years were we in the lottery with reasonable expectation for a good pick? One. There is a big difference between being the 7th through 14th worst team and one of the 3 worst teams.
    And that is why it is a crapshoot. Lets look at the last few drafts not including the last draft.

    2009 draft

    1st pick Clippers: Blake Griffin (were a lottery team before Chris Paul trade)
    2nd pick Grizzlies: Hasheem Thabeet (Bust)
    3rd pick Thunder: James Harden (already had a superstar in Durant)
    4th pick Kings: Tyreke Evans (Still in the lottery)
    5th pick T'Wolves: Ricky Rubio (Still in the lottery)


    2010 draft

    1st pick Wizards: John Wall (still in the lottery)
    2nd pick 76'ers: Evan Turner (still in the lottery, borderline playoff team)
    3rd pick Nets: Derrick Favors (Nets have been bad till this year until they signed key free agents and trades)
    4th pick T'Wolves: Wesley Johnson (Bust, Still in the lottery)
    5th pick Kings: Demarcus Cousins (Still in the lottery)

    2011 draft

    1st pick Cavs: Kyrie Irving (Still in the lottery)
    2nd pick T'Wolves: Derrick Williams (Still in the lottery)
    3rd pick Utah: Ernas Kanter (Border line playoff team)
    4th pick Cavs: Tristan Thompson (Still lottery team)
    5th pick Raptors: Jonas Valanciunas (Still in the lottery)

    Unless you are getting the 1st pick, which is far from guaranteed it is a complete crapshoot.

    The only teams that are in the playoffs now excluding the Thunder (Nets, Clippers) made key trades to get them where they are now. Memphis built through the draft but thats because they have to due to financial limitations, now they can't even keep their players because eventually you have to pay them.
    Last edited by Tmath; 02-02-2013 at 04:55 PM.


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