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  1. #1
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    Doc and his inability to get the most out of new players

    Out of these 22 new additions since the big 3 era, here is a list showing if their stats ever went up or down since joining our team, from their previous or earlier seasons with another team: (+, -, or =)

    Brandon Bass +
    Nenad Krstic +
    Mickael Pietrus =
    Shelden Williams =
    Leandro Barbosa -
    Courtney Lee -
    Jason Terry -
    Jason Collins -
    Sam Cassell -
    Nate Robinson -
    Delonte West -
    Sheed -
    Shaq -
    Jeff Green -
    Carlos Arroyo -
    Eddie House -
    Marbury -
    Mikki Moore -
    Michael Finley -
    Troy Murphy -
    Sasha Pavlovic -
    Chris Wilcox -

    Pietrus and Shelden Williams had nearly the same stat lines as their year prior with another team.

    As you can see, only Krstic and Brandon Bass (and some have argued some of Bass's other stats showed he was actually better in Orlando) have actually gone up in stats since being acquired by the Doc Rivers coached Celtics.

    It's pretty clear the Doc's biggest weakness is getting the most out of his players. He has not shown any knowledge of being able to get the best out of them, and just when it seems they may be coming along, he'll find a way to derail their rhythm.

    Out of 22 new additions, he's gotten a tiny bit more production out of only two of them and two others hovered around their usual stat output. 18 other players have seen their stats go down immediately after coming to the C's.

    The sad part is, that the out of the only two players who showed stat increases, Bass and Krstic, Bass has now regressed this year due to Doc's constantly changing rotations and minutes, and Krstic had an injury but then failed to come back into rhythm with any consistency after the fact. He would get DNP's and inconsistent minutes from Doc, and it totally ruined the rest of his season, eventually leading to his overseas departure.


    "Stats are for losers. The final score is for winners." - Bill Belichick

  2. #2
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    So a player having a drop in ppg means we aren't getting g the most out of them?

    A majority of your list had bigger roles on worse teams...of course their totals are going to go down with a lesser role on a better team.

    You're not factoring I. Shot attempts, shooting percentages, minutes played or anything. It's a flawed afgunnt of you're not going go include all factors.

  3. #3
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    most of those players are trash anyways

  4. #4
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    Thats usually what happens when you goto a team with 3 superstars already on it.

  5. #5
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    At least half of the players on your list were either garbage or players years past their prime. And the fact that you're saying Jeff Green is worse after playing only a half season after a heart surgery is quite laughable.

  6. #6
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    I once heard Bobby Knight say one of the most important facets of his job was to give the players his confidence in them. This where I think Doc struggles the most. The focus is always on "earning" Doc's trust but any good relationship is built on give and take. Not at all convinced Doc conveys his confidence in new players to them to the degree necessary for them to quickly establish a comfort level within the systems and with the team in general.
    Chris Mannix ‏@ChrisMannixSI 14m  More
    SI: Statistics suggest Joel Embiid will fully recover from foot surgery. But it could be 9-12 months before he plays http://bit.ly/1qwZuIB

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by B'sCeltsPatsSox View Post
    At least half of the players on your list were either garbage or players years past their prime. And the fact that you're saying Jeff Green is worse after playing only a half season after a heart surgery is quite laughable.
    Correctimundo.

    Agreed completely.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corey View Post
    So a player having a drop in ppg means we aren't getting g the most out of them?

    A majority of your list had bigger roles on worse teams...of course their totals are going to go down with a lesser role on a better team.

    You're not factoring I. Shot attempts, shooting percentages, minutes played or anything. It's a flawed afgunnt of you're not going go include all factors.
    Wrong, as their stats per 48 decreased as well. And I didn't only go by PPG.

    Quote Originally Posted by B'sCeltsPatsSox View Post
    At least half of the players on your list were either garbage or players years past their prime. And the fact that you're saying Jeff Green is worse after playing only a half season after a heart surgery is quite laughable.
    Then 1) why would Danny and Doc bring in all these guys in if they were garbage, and 2) do you think the plan with 18 out of 22 of these guys was to use them in a way that was even worse than their "garbage years" or "past their prime years"? Yah, that sounds real logical. Let's go out and get scrubs so we can watch them play even worse than scrubs and worse than what they did earlier that year on other teams, or their previous years.


    "Stats are for losers. The final score is for winners." - Bill Belichick

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by 69centers View Post

    Then 1) why would Danny and Doc bring in all these guys in if they were garbage, and 2) do you think the plan with 18 out of 22 of these guys was to use them in a way that was even worse than their "garbage years" or "past their prime years"? Yah, that sounds real logical. Let's go out and get scrubs so we can watch them play even worse than scrubs and worse than what they did earlier that year on other teams, or their previous years.
    Google the team salaries by year and you will see why he repeatedly signed "garbage" and let key players walk.

    Looking back, he should have traded Allen after following the 2009 season to free up money for Tony Allen. But again, had the team stayed healthy they could have raised a second banner in LA. Fans look back and judge Danny based on Perkins knee, pretty much...selective memory.

    Danny has done more good than bad within his and Doc's team philosophy. You can argue the philosophy was wrong, and he should have traded Ray Allen and Rondo minutes after the 08 finals. But seriously, without knowing where we would be today nobody would do that. And the fans would have rioted

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by CELTICS4LYFE View Post
    Thats usually what happens when you goto a team with 3 superstars already on it.
    this.

    Wilcox, West, House, Pietrus were all just as good if not better here.
    Green is equal for now he's matching career averages pretty much and playing better D.

    Shaq played very well when he was healthy. Doc used him best he could

    Also how come rookies don't count, those are new pieces too. Bradley, Sullinger? Big baby?

  11. #11
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    always have the feeling that new players lost all their confidence when they first step on the floor for us

  12. #12
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    this is obvious unless you're a doc apologist that thinks he does no wrong
    Quote Originally Posted by Kobe Bryant
    "You don't want Rondo? Send him my way," Kobe declared. "I love everything about him. Everything. I love his attitude, I love his chippiness, his edge, his intellect, his know-it-allness. All of it. That's what makes championship players.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by 69centers View Post
    Wrong, as their stats per 48 decreased as well. And I didn't only go by PPG.
    Really, what stats did you use then?

    You're still making a flawed argument. A majority of the players you listed are scrubs, were having injury problems, or were in the final two years of their playing career.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corey View Post
    Really, what stats did you use then?

    You're still making a flawed argument. A majority of the players you listed are scrubs, were having injury problems, or were in the final two years of their playing career.
    Rebounds if they're a big, assists if they're guards, steals, shooting percentage, etc. Regardless of a scrub, injury, or last year of their career, they should have at least been able to match their previous output and 18 out of 22 did not.

    The percentages of players who failed here are too high for your "most of them are scrubs" argument. Because other than Bass (who has regressed this year) and Krstic (who Doc quickly ran out of town) you don't have ANY stitch of proof that players have excelled here under Doc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hustlenomics View Post
    this is obvious unless you're a doc apologist that thinks he does no wrong
    Hmmmm, now I wonder who that would be ....


    "Stats are for losers. The final score is for winners." - Bill Belichick

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by 69centers View Post
    Wrong, as their stats per 48 decreased as well. And I didn't only go by PPG.



    Then 1) why would Danny and Doc bring in all these guys in if they were garbage, and 2) do you think the plan with 18 out of 22 of these guys was to use them in a way that was even worse than their "garbage years" or "past their prime years"? Yah, that sounds real logical. Let's go out and get scrubs so we can watch them play even worse than scrubs and worse than what they did earlier that year on other teams, or their previous years.

    Look at half of the players you named again. I mean half of them were the 9th/10th man in the rotation. Usually most 9th/10th men are below average to begin with and rarely do you get them to perform them to play better.

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