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  1. #16
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    This was always the next step of his game. When the double comes as it often is sent after he puts the ball on the floor there are always people left wide open. When he learns to recognize where the double is coming from it's going to open up passing lanes and the rest of his game.


    I dunno about the rest of you guys but Derozan's handles look improved too. I havent seen him take too many misdribbles or travels or double dribbles or any of that. He's looking confident with his handle.
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  2. #17
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    I've been impressed. Hopefully this stretch isn't an aberration


  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vdot View Post
    Jose Calderon is a great player but his impact on this team was overrated. Why must you have a great pass-first point guard to be successful? It's simply not true. Mario Chalmers, Derek Fisher, Tony Parker Chauncey Billups, and whoever the point guard on the 06 heat was lol, were all the point guards of their championship teams and had little impact on the game with their passing.

    Rondo wasn't nearly the passer he is now when the Celtics won....the only point guard who impacted a championship team with passing in recent years was Jason Kidd, but we all know it was Dirk and Chandler in the front court that got that team a ring.

    A play-making point guard only helps you on offense, and is usually a liability on defense. Defense is a characteristic of EVERY championship team in recent history. Passing is overrated...people seem to be afraid of Lowry running the team - how about we depend on the entire team's passing ability instead of just the point guard? I'd rather have Amir Johnson develop his game/passing than depend on someone to keep passing the ball to him.
    Your post will definitely open a new can of worms about the pros and cons of having a conventional PG vs. an offensive minded PG.

    Relative to not having Calderon, Aside from Amir, I also would like to see Derozan's game with Lowry at the helm.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps Insider 12 View Post
    You said it yourself from your other post on another thread that chemistry cannot easily be quantified. So I will wait until season's end what Gay can bring on the table for Demar to feast on.

    Gay is not going anywhere soon so Give me that time.
    Chemistry is a different topic. This thread is talking about DeRozan's "ability" to pass.

    Does it look like he's improved at passing or not?.

    Is he still dribbling into triple teams?

    Is he recognizing/reading movement better?.

    There's definite improvement in his game, not just passing. I would say even despite his 3pt percentages his stroke from 3 looks improved.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by koreancabbage View Post
    well perfect timing. he was getting for Rudy Gay lol

    over the last few game, i really believe he has taken his game to another level. its gotten me off the hate Derozan train and slowly making my way to the Derozan fan club lol. Realistically, can't trade Demar now.

    Bargnani might be the only piece that people want gone but i actually want to see if Bargs can fit with this club. Before making a decision with his value at it's lowest
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  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vdot View Post
    Jose Calderon is a great player but his impact on this team was overrated. Why must you have a great pass-first point guard to be successful? It's simply not true. Mario Chalmers, Derek Fisher, Tony Parker Chauncey Billups, and whoever the point guard on the 06 heat was lol, were all the point guards of their championship teams and had little impact on the game with their passing.

    Rondo wasn't nearly the passer he is now when the Celtics won....the only point guard who impacted a championship team with passing in recent years was Jason Kidd, but we all know it was Dirk and Chandler in the front court that got that team a ring.

    A play-making point guard only helps you on offense, and is usually a liability on defense. Defense is a characteristic of EVERY championship team in recent history. Passing is overrated...people seem to be afraid of Lowry running the team - how about we depend on the entire team's passing ability instead of just the point guard? I'd rather have Amir Johnson develop his game/passing than depend on someone to keep passing the ball to him.
    there's some i agree with in here and some i don't.

    the whole notion of having a pass first pg is based on the desire to get the ball out of the point guards hands and into the hands of one of your scorers. it has nothing to do with how many assists you get. by this definition Fisher, Chalmers, even Billups all fit the definition of pass first pg. guys like Fisher and Chalmers just happen to make that pass very early in the shot clock.

    so the whole debate should probably be re-titled "unselfish pg vs selfish pg". and "unselfish pg" is a definition that every point guard you listed fits IMO.

    anyways, as far as Derozan - he's learning. not everybody gets a kick out of getting an assist but i think we are seeing some real growth in Demar's thought process out there. of course i thought the same thing about his rebounding early in the season and look where it is now so i gets we'll have to wait and see.
    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    well unfortunately it looks like you were right about Bargs...

    but hopefully we can use his expiring, if not at least we unloaded Novak's deal...

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by B2B View Post
    Chemistry is a different topic. This thread is talking about DeRozan's "ability" to pass.

    Does it look like he's improved at passing or not?.

    Is he still dribbling into triple teams?

    Is he recognizing/reading movement better?.

    There's definite improvement in his game, not just passing. I would say even despite his 3pt percentages his stroke from 3 looks improved.
    Will his chemistry with Gay not affect that aspect of his game, I would think so. I see a glimpse of that during last night's game...as if he already knew Gay, picking the right moment to channel the ball to his SF.

    I said that I still have reservations so I'll wait. 35 games is not that long I supposed.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamiecballer View Post
    there's some i agree with in here and some i don't.

    the whole notion of having a pass first pg is based on the desire to get the ball out of the point guards hands and into the hands of one of your scorers. it has nothing to do with how many assists you get. by this definition Fisher, Chalmers, even Billups all fit the definition of pass first pg. guys like Fisher and Chalmers just happen to make that pass very early in the shot clock.

    so the whole debate should probably be re-titled "unselfish pg vs selfish pg". and "unselfish pg" is a definition that every point guard you listed fits IMO.

    anyways, as far as Derozan - he's learning. not everybody gets a kick out of getting an assist but i think we are seeing some real growth in Demar's thought process out there. of course i thought the same thing about his rebounding early in the season and look where it is now so i gets we'll have to wait and see.
    I see what you're saying, Fisher Chalmers Billups etc. are definitely unselfish....but it's easy to be unselfish when you're surrounded by superstars and great playmakers lol

    I would say its about "play-making vs non-play-making" point guards. All those guys weren't necessarily great play-makers, yet their teams still won.
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  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps Insider 12 View Post
    Will his chemistry with Gay not affect that aspect of his game, I would think so. I see a glimpse of that during last night's game...as if he already knew Gay, picking the right moment to channel the ball to his SF.

    I said that I still have reservations so I'll wait. 35 games is not that long I supposed.
    Your still not separating ability from chemistry. Chemistry improves stats, ability is seen.

  10. #25
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    the fact of the matter is people trash demar but fail to see that he is still adjusting to the way defences are game planning for him. in the earlier part of the year, he was RIPPING guys apart on the low block, nailing open jumpers, and rebounding the ball at a higher rate because these were things uncharacteristic for demar.

    since then, teams have started to double, not allow him in the post, play faster guys on him, stronger guys on him, and force him to take contested perimeter shots. he struggled for a bit, but has since picked up his ast numbers, although his scoring and rebounding may have dipped a little.

    the guy is only 23 and obviously the coaches are pointing these things out to him and he is a student of the game as well. he watches a lot of film and from what we hear, he is his own harshest critic. everyone NEEDS to realize that this kid is ONLY GOING TO GET BETTER. 23 is DAMN YOUNG. kobe was a highlight reel but he was as ONE DIMENSIONAL as it got in his early years.

    i know the kobe analogy is horrible in terms of talent and ability, but it feeds into my point that kobe had to put in a LOT of work and it took a LOT of failure and TOUGH criticism before he got any type of rep near what he has now.

    there is still SO MUCH TIME for derozan to improve and some people think it can happen overnight... it cant. he needs time and he will get there. he has gotten better EVERY year and i dont think hes at his ceiling just yet. a prime example of this is amir.

    amir has been in the league for NINE YEARS and is only really coming into his own now. its all starting to come together for the guy and hes only 25. at this stage, his numbers are already WAY better than another raptor great at the age of 25, antonio davis.

    just give demar time. he's getting there. having rudy alongside him will only make them BOTH better.
    Last edited by jsumadchat; 02-02-2013 at 11:13 AM.

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  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by B2B View Post
    Your still not separating ability from chemistry. Chemistry improves stats, ability is seen.
    I would like both in Derozan's game going forward and the Gray area in between.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vdot View Post
    I see what you're saying, Fisher Chalmers Billups etc. are definitely unselfish....but it's easy to be unselfish when you're surrounded by superstars and great playmakers lol

    I would say its about "play-making vs non-play-making" point guards. All those guys weren't necessarily great play-makers, yet their teams still won.
    That would be the point, it's not easy to be unselfish, it's what's needed, the dynamic of the team determines fit.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by B2B View Post
    That would be the point, it's not easy to be unselfish, it's what's needed, the dynamic of the team determines fit.
    agreed. unselfish pg play is becoming increasingly rare with the new athletic breed of pgs - and a players unselfishness isn't dictated by the quality of their teammates.
    Last edited by Jamiecballer; 02-02-2013 at 11:35 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    well unfortunately it looks like you were right about Bargs...

    but hopefully we can use his expiring, if not at least we unloaded Novak's deal...

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamiecballer View Post
    a players unselfishness isn't dictated by the quality of their teammates.
    Question though, does that mean that a NBA starter's APG will not improve if he has AAU playing alongside him going against NBA defenses?

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps Insider 12 View Post
    Question though, does that mean that a NBA starter's APG will not improve if he has AAU playing alongside him going against NBA defenses?
    i don't understand the question. did you mean decrease rather improve?
    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    well unfortunately it looks like you were right about Bargs...

    but hopefully we can use his expiring, if not at least we unloaded Novak's deal...

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