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Thread: PED Discussion

  1. #271
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    Watch Holiday on the next list of players

    But seriously, I think the punishment is enough. They're reputation gets tarnished already, and if they can play without the PEDs after, let them play.

    And by the way, those pants, they belong to my dad.And they're not really pants,
    they're Lederhosen



  2. #272
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johann View Post
    Watch Holiday on the next list of players

    But seriously, I think the punishment is enough. They're reputation gets tarnished already, and if they can play without the PEDs after, let them play.
    How can you say it's enough when it isn't stopping people from doing it. I think they deserve to have their reputation diminished, but it doesn't matter if that's enough because the goal should be to have a fair level of play for the players who don't cheat period. Barry Bonds may get an asterisk but why does that matter for the guy who's ERA was higher every year because of him? They need to stop using before it happens.

  3. #273
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    http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/...iguez-directly

    Sources: Bosch injected A-Rod

    MIAMI -- The texts, the source said, usually came late at night, telling Anthony Bosch to come to the house. Bosch would then head to the waterfront mansion on Biscayne Bay, through the gate on North Bay Road, to inject performance-enhancing drugs into Alex Rodriguez.

    Procedures were different, though, sources told "Outside the Lines," for the other athletes who were customers of Bosch's Biogenesis of America clinic in Coral Gables, which Major League Baseball considers the center of a widespread doping operation in South Florida. Those athletes, sources said, relied on intermediaries to transport the performance-enhancing drug regimens Bosch provided.

    But for A-Rod, the service was always personal: "Only Tony handled A-Rod," one source told "Outside the Lines."

    The visits were every few weeks. One night last spring, a source said, Bosch told associates he had been kicked out of Rodriguez' home after he had trouble locating a vein and infuriated the player. The sources did not say why Bosch would have been tapping a vein, as HGH and testosterone do not require intravenous injections. But whatever he was doing, "Tony said A-Rod was pissed at him," a source said. "He said he was bleeding everywhere."

    Several sources, speaking on the condition of anonymity, said Bosch spoke openly about his relationship with the Yankee All-Star, and two sources said that documents they reviewed detailed the drug regimens and schedules Rodriguez received.

    A spokesperson for Rodriguez on Friday said, "the allegations are not true."

    MLB officials say they believe Bosch is the center of the South Florida doping operation and have urged the U.S. Drug Enforcement Agency to open an investigation. But numerous sources contacted by "Outside the Lines" say that they have not been interviewed by federal agents or by MLB investigators, and are not aware of any law enforcement effort to seize material from the now-shuttered Biogenesis office or Bosch's home. MLB officials have turned over information they collected to the DEA. But sources in Florida said they have seen no indication that an investigation has begun. DEA officials have declined to comment on the existence of a case.

    Rodriguez was named in the Miami New Times on Monday as one of numerous athletes listed in Biogenesis paperwork. A source told "Outside the Lines" Bosch had an aversion to computerized records and wrote all of his records by hand. The other MLB players named were Melky Cabrera, Bartolo Colon, Nelson Cruz, Yasmani Grandal and Gio Gonzalez.

    Bosch termed the allegations against him "bull----'' and "all wrong'' when reached by "Outside the Lines.'' His attorney, Susy Ribero-Ayala, also put out a statement denying the allegations and told "Outside the Lines'' that Bosch wouldn't be talking "any time very soon.''

    One source familiar with Bosch's operation said his office was regularly visited by Juan Carlos Nunez, a man identified this summer as working for Melky Cabrera's agents, Seth and Sam Levinson of ACES Sports Management. After Cabrera tested positive, MLB officials said Nunez created a fake website in an attempt to provide an alibi for Cabrera. The Levinsons previously described Nunez as having been a "consultant," and said they had no knowledge of his activities or his possible connection to PEDs.

    Sources familiar with MLB's investigation said officials are still looking into how much the veteran agents knew, as three of their players, Cabrera, Cruz and Gonzalez, have been connected to the clinic.

    Nunez, who in recent years relocated to South Florida, has not responded to several requests for comment. One baseball agent said Nunez has frequently been seen at Marlins Park, and was known to be an important conduit between the Levinsons' ACES sports management agency and Latin American ballplayers. Seth Levinson issued a statement Friday:

    "Anyone who knows us, knows that it is absolutely ridiculous to think that we would ever condone the use of performance-enhancing drugs. We have represented many hundreds of players over 25 years, and our track record makes it perfectly clear that we do things the right way. ACES long ago stopped using Juan Nunez as an independent contractor, and he plays no role whatsoever in ACES' ongoing representation of any professional baseball player."

    In November, the MLBPA said: "After a thorough investigation, we concluded none of the ACES principals were involved in or had knowledge of the Cabrera scheme."

    Rodriguez has denied ever having been treated by Bosch or having received PEDs from him. Cabrera, Colon and Grandal were each suspended 50 games after testing positive for testosterone last season. Cruz has not spoken about the allegations, but a law firm representing him, Farrell & Reisinger, issued a denial this week to The Associated Press: "We are aware of certain allegations and inferences. To the extent these allegations and inferences refer to Nelson, they are denied."

    Gonzalez this week denied ever using PEDs; his father, Max, said he received drugs from Bosch for his own weight loss, and said his son had never doped.

    One source familiar with Bosch's operation said Rodriguez' cousin, Yuri Sucart, identified as having helped A-Rod during his admitted period of doping more than 10 years ago, appeared regularly at Biogenesis, but not on behalf of the player. The source said Sucart obtained drugs for personal use, and that Rodriguez didn't need him as a courier because of the personal attention he received from Bosch.

    Four years ago, "Outside the Lines" identified Bosch and his father, Dr. Pedro Bosch, as having provided a prescription for human chorionic gonadotropin (HCG) to Manny Ramirez, who then received the first of his two PED suspensions. As in this latest instance involving Anthony Bosch, MLB officials pressed the DEA to open a case, but law enforcement sources said the agency never did.

    Anothony Bosch has apparently operated with impunity since and often presented himself as a physician, despite not having a medical license. His name is listed on state corporation records tied to a laundry list of ventures that are now inoperative, and sources said he was involved in several businesses, like Biogenesis, in which his name did not appear on paperwork.

    Several friends and former associates told "Outside the Lines" they were either told by Bosch or led to believe that he was a medical doctor. On state corporate filings for one venture, Bosch is listed as "Dr. Bosch." Under Florida law, only a licensed physician can consult with a patient and recommend treatment and prescribe medications. A would-be patient told "Outside the Lines" that Bosch was introduced to him as an "anti-aging doctor" during a visit to a South Florida clinic within the past year, and a reporter was present when Bosch told a man he was a doctor early last fall.

  4. #274
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    http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/...iguez-directly

    Sources: Bosch injected A-Rod

    MIAMI -- The texts, the source said, usually came late at night, telling Anthony Bosch to come to the house. Bosch would then head to the waterfront mansion on Biscayne Bay, through the gate on North Bay Road, to inject performance-enhancing drugs into Alex Rodriguez.

    Procedures were different, though, sources told "Outside the Lines," for the other athletes who were customers of Bosch's Biogenesis of America clinic in Coral Gables, which Major League Baseball considers the center of a widespread doping operation in South Florida. Those athletes, sources said, relied on intermediaries to transport the performance-enhancing drug regimens Bosch provided.

    But for A-Rod, the service was always personal: "Only Tony handled A-Rod," one source told "Outside the Lines."

    The visits were every few weeks. One night last spring, a source said, Bosch told associates he had been kicked out of Rodriguez' home after he had trouble locating a vein and infuriated the player. The sources did not say why Bosch would have been tapping a vein, as HGH and testosterone do not require intravenous injections. But whatever he was doing, "Tony said A-Rod was pissed at him," a source said. "He said he was bleeding everywhere."

    Several sources, speaking on the condition of anonymity, said Bosch spoke openly about his relationship with the Yankee All-Star, and two sources said that documents they reviewed detailed the drug regimens and schedules Rodriguez received.

    A spokesperson for Rodriguez on Friday said, "the allegations are not true."

    MLB officials say they believe Bosch is the center of the South Florida doping operation and have urged the U.S. Drug Enforcement Agency to open an investigation. But numerous sources contacted by "Outside the Lines" say that they have not been interviewed by federal agents or by MLB investigators, and are not aware of any law enforcement effort to seize material from the now-shuttered Biogenesis office or Bosch's home. MLB officials have turned over information they collected to the DEA. But sources in Florida said they have seen no indication that an investigation has begun. DEA officials have declined to comment on the existence of a case.

    Rodriguez was named in the Miami New Times on Monday as one of numerous athletes listed in Biogenesis paperwork. A source told "Outside the Lines" Bosch had an aversion to computerized records and wrote all of his records by hand. The other MLB players named were Melky Cabrera, Bartolo Colon, Nelson Cruz, Yasmani Grandal and Gio Gonzalez.

    Bosch termed the allegations against him "bull----'' and "all wrong'' when reached by "Outside the Lines.'' His attorney, Susy Ribero-Ayala, also put out a statement denying the allegations and told "Outside the Lines'' that Bosch wouldn't be talking "any time very soon.''

    One source familiar with Bosch's operation said his office was regularly visited by Juan Carlos Nunez, a man identified this summer as working for Melky Cabrera's agents, Seth and Sam Levinson of ACES Sports Management. After Cabrera tested positive, MLB officials said Nunez created a fake website in an attempt to provide an alibi for Cabrera. The Levinsons previously described Nunez as having been a "consultant," and said they had no knowledge of his activities or his possible connection to PEDs.

    Sources familiar with MLB's investigation said officials are still looking into how much the veteran agents knew, as three of their players, Cabrera, Cruz and Gonzalez, have been connected to the clinic.

    Nunez, who in recent years relocated to South Florida, has not responded to several requests for comment. One baseball agent said Nunez has frequently been seen at Marlins Park, and was known to be an important conduit between the Levinsons' ACES sports management agency and Latin American ballplayers. Seth Levinson issued a statement Friday:

    "Anyone who knows us, knows that it is absolutely ridiculous to think that we would ever condone the use of performance-enhancing drugs. We have represented many hundreds of players over 25 years, and our track record makes it perfectly clear that we do things the right way. ACES long ago stopped using Juan Nunez as an independent contractor, and he plays no role whatsoever in ACES' ongoing representation of any professional baseball player."

    In November, the MLBPA said: "After a thorough investigation, we concluded none of the ACES principals were involved in or had knowledge of the Cabrera scheme."

    Rodriguez has denied ever having been treated by Bosch or having received PEDs from him. Cabrera, Colon and Grandal were each suspended 50 games after testing positive for testosterone last season. Cruz has not spoken about the allegations, but a law firm representing him, Farrell & Reisinger, issued a denial this week to The Associated Press: "We are aware of certain allegations and inferences. To the extent these allegations and inferences refer to Nelson, they are denied."

    Gonzalez this week denied ever using PEDs; his father, Max, said he received drugs from Bosch for his own weight loss, and said his son had never doped.

    One source familiar with Bosch's operation said Rodriguez' cousin, Yuri Sucart, identified as having helped A-Rod during his admitted period of doping more than 10 years ago, appeared regularly at Biogenesis, but not on behalf of the player. The source said Sucart obtained drugs for personal use, and that Rodriguez didn't need him as a courier because of the personal attention he received from Bosch.

    Four years ago, "Outside the Lines" identified Bosch and his father, Dr. Pedro Bosch, as having provided a prescription for human chorionic gonadotropin (HCG) to Manny Ramirez, who then received the first of his two PED suspensions. As in this latest instance involving Anthony Bosch, MLB officials pressed the DEA to open a case, but law enforcement sources said the agency never did.

    Anothony Bosch has apparently operated with impunity since and often presented himself as a physician, despite not having a medical license. His name is listed on state corporation records tied to a laundry list of ventures that are now inoperative, and sources said he was involved in several businesses, like Biogenesis, in which his name did not appear on paperwork.

    Several friends and former associates told "Outside the Lines" they were either told by Bosch or led to believe that he was a medical doctor. On state corporate filings for one venture, Bosch is listed as "Dr. Bosch." Under Florida law, only a licensed physician can consult with a patient and recommend treatment and prescribe medications. A would-be patient told "Outside the Lines" that Bosch was introduced to him as an "anti-aging doctor" during a visit to a South Florida clinic within the past year, and a reporter was present when Bosch told a man he was a doctor early last fall.

  5. #275
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    The whole "couldn't find a vein" stuff makes A-Rod sound like a junkie.

  6. #276
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    bosch personally injected arod in the butt with steroids

    Alex Rodriguez - 3B - Yankees
    T.J. Quinn and Mike Fish of ESPN.com report that Anthony Bosch of Biogenesis of America clinic injected Alex Rodriguez with performance-enhancing drugs multiple times at the player's Biscayne Bay mansion.
    The report states that most athletes associated with the Coral Gables clinic "relied on intermediaries to transport the performance-enhancing drug regimens Bosch provided," but A-Rod was only handled personally by Bosch. Bosch's visits to A-Rod's mansion were reportedly every few weeks, with one visit resulting in Rodriguez kicking Bosch out after he was unable to find a vein needed for an injection. A-Rod's spokesman has already denied the new report, stating that "the allegations are not true."
    Source: ESPN.com Feb 1 - 12:59 PM
    his legacy is destroyed

  7. #277
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    personally, i think the only way to rid the league of PED's is to hit them where it hurts. The wallet.

    1st offense, 25 game suspension, you can never make more that league minimum for the rest of your career.

    2nd offense, Banished

  8. #278
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    So much talent wasted, smh.

  9. #279
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    We are getting close to the point that we should never consider any athlete a 'hero' for what they do on the field. Regardless of it is baseball, football, basketball, cycling, etc... we should only look at sports as a form of entertainment. Our fascination with sports has created a environment where the top athletes are using anything available to get that 'edge'. Watching sports should be no different than watching a movie. We should just acknowledge that what we are watching is made up and not reality.

    Quest to watch a game in all 30 baseball stadiums, so far I have seen: Arizona, Atlanta, Baltimore, Boston, Chicago Cubs, Chicago White Sox, Cincinnati, Cleveland, Colorado, Detroit, Houston, Kansas City, LA Angels, LA Dodgers, Miami, NY Mets, NY Yankees, Philly, Pittsburgh, San Francisco, St. Louis, San Diego, Seattle, Tampa Bay, Texas, Toronto, Washington

  10. #280
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    Quote Originally Posted by utl768 View Post
    his legacy is destroyed
    Was already destroyed when he admitted to using PED. He wasn't getting into the HoF before this but at least he gained the support of his teammates, fans, and organization by putting his ego behind him for the most part. This just makes him an outcast in the one place he finally gained acceptance.

  11. #281
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halladay View Post
    Part of the problem here lies with the teams. Lets face it, most players aren't exactly smart people. They put stuff into their system, and I know some fans won't believe it, without knowing exactly what's in it. I think it's time that teams have a policy where they say: You can take this,this and this. Rather than a suggestion, like teams do now, these are the only supplements a player can take. Teams need to be taking care of this internally rather than take any chances.
    Most teams now have trainers who create their diets for them as well now.

    So everything that is put in the players system is approved by the team (or supposed to be).


    I'm fine with Holliday's proposal.

    But it sucks for the team that loses the player an entire season. At least they recoup the money. But they invested that money to the player because they felt it was a bargain.

    The teams are the ones who lose in this scenario. But I agree it needs to be more harsh. Tim Hudson had some good quotes on the subject too.


    Guys aren't just innocently failing tests. They know what will trigger a fail.

  12. #282
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    Hearing that wasn't the only thing injected into his butt that day.

  13. #283
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nomar View Post
    Hearing that wasn't the only thing injected into his butt that day.
    stay on the topic Rainbow guy

  14. #284
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanDream View Post
    Are you kidding me? Hank Aaron embraced Barry Bonds. He even said that he thinks those guys should go into the Hall of Fame.

    Also, those guys did amphetamines but that doesn't have an effect anywhere close to the effect of steroids. Amphetamines helped guys play double-headers and stay sharp without feeling fatigue. Steroids gave guys superhuman strength and altered their bodies completely. It's not even close to the same.
    So we're OK with players taking substances to enhance their performance, and crossing gray areas when it comes to making themselves better.

    Ok then, show me. Show me exactly how much better Barry Bonds was using performance-enhancing drugs than he would have been if he'd relied only on his otherworldly talent, hellacious workout routines, and strict health habits. I'd say do the same for Roger Clemens, except Clemens never tested positive for anything and has vehemently denied using PEDs. (We have no evidence that Mike Piazza used them other than Murray Chass's crusade to rid the world of bacne, or that Jeff Bagwell used other than that the guy lifted a lot, hit a lot of home runs in the '90s, and was bros with Ken Caminiti.)

    (Before anyone jumps me, yes that is a reworded paragraph from a Grantland article)

  15. #285
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nomar View Post
    How can you say it's enough when it isn't stopping people from doing it. I think they deserve to have their reputation diminished, but it doesn't matter if that's enough because the goal should be to have a fair level of play for the players who don't cheat period. Barry Bonds may get an asterisk but why does that matter for the guy who's ERA was higher every year because of him? They need to stop using before it happens.
    A heavier suspension may work, but in fairness we also don't know how many players have shied away from using as a result of the current regulations in place.

    Yes, people are still getting caught, but there are always people who attempt to buck the system when millions of dollars are at stake. No compliance system is going to eradicate any kind of bad behavior in sports.

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