Rudy Gay to the Raptors Trade Discussion Part II

[bartron_44]

i totally agree. might be the reason why Derozan has been slumping in January. too many bigs in the middle of the paint. If Derozan and Gay get more room in the paint, its gonna be scary. as well as Ross.

I don't buy this at all (that DD needs Bargs to spread the floor to be effective). Last year DD had his best month of the season in February when Bargnani was out. His ppg dropped slightly in January because he played on average 2 minutes less then in December, and he took fewer shots. He also went 3 for 20 from behind the arc.

I have never really seen him play better offensively then he has over the past 5 games.

[bartron_44]

Allen didn't say he wanted to come to Toronto and Howard never directly said to anyone in the media that he wanted to go to Brooklyn... The point is that Toronto was on the table for Allen and the move was a real possiblity at that time.

Also we were losing during that time but we did not have a history of tanking.... 3 years back we were a team that was close to making it into the ECF. The fact that we could offer Allen a max contract (Like we gave VC) adding in that the city wanted to win (not tank) made T.O an attractive destination.

Since then and we've been in tank mode I haven't heard anything remotely close to this...

WTF...what year are you talking about? We didn't even make the playoffs 3 years ago....lol

The last time we made the playoffs was in 2008, and we lost in 5 games to the Magic....who in turn lost in the Eastern Conf. Semi finals. We haven't come close to going to the ECF since 2001...

[lajoie]

Allen didn't say he wanted to come to Toronto and Howard never directly said to anyone in the media that he wanted to go to Brooklyn... The point is that Toronto was on the table for Allen and the move was a real possiblity at that time.

Also we were losing during that time but we did not have a history of tanking.... 3 years back we were a team that was close to making it into the ECF. The fact that we could offer Allen a max contract (Like we gave VC) adding in that the city wanted to win (not tank) made T.O an attractive destination.

Since then and we've been in tank mode I haven't heard anything remotely close to this...

Clearly can't be talking about the Raptors

[gwrighter]

WTF...what year are you talking about? We didn't even make the playoffs 3 years ago....lol

The last time we made the playoffs was in 2008, and we lost in 5 games to the Magic....who in turn lost in the Eastern Conf. Semi finals. We haven't come close to going to the ECF since 2001...

nvm.

[ghettosean]

WTF...what year are you talking about? We didn't even make the playoffs 3 years ago....lol

The last time we made the playoffs was in 2008, and we lost in 5 games to the Magic....who in turn lost in the Eastern Conf. Semi finals. We haven't come close to going to the ECF since 2001...

Dude I'm talking about 3 years back from when Ray Allen made those comments when the Raptors were entertaining trading VC for Ray Allen.

I can see how this was misinterrpreted though I'll update the post.

[B2B]

Bargs is vital now because the Raps need someone to stretch the floor. If Bargs comes in and operates at the high post and plays as third or fourth option, he could be very effective.

Original idea behind proposing this trade was that Gay would potentially be a better player/fit in TO because he would be the pseudo replacement PF for a stretch big, as apposed to Memphis where Gasol & Randolph took priority in the post. Simply put, I expected his efficient to rise simply by playing him in the post more than he did in Memphis.

IMO Memphis pace, system & usage didn't get the most out of Gay. However at this point I don't think fans would be receptive to the idea of Bargnani starting at this point, unless he works his way off the bench.

Also don't think the potential mismatch stops there with DeRozan's ability to post up either, I think it hard for most teams to effectively guard both in the post with Bargnani stretching the floor.

Only time will tell how redundant Gay/DeRozan are as a wing tandem. With the season all but lost I'm more than willing to explore all possibilities.

[MrSoFreshSoClea]

Derozan cannot score against the elite defenders or simply above average defenders so Gay will probably have the ball most of the time, look to see derozans ppg drop.

[koreancabbage]

I don't buy this at all (that DD needs Bargs to spread the floor to be effective). Last year DD had his best month of the season in February when Bargnani was out. His ppg dropped slightly in January because he played on average 2 minutes less then in December, and he took fewer shots. He also went 3 for 20 from behind the arc.

I have never really seen him play better offensively then he has over the past 5 games.

its also b/c they crowd him and get the ball out of his hand. Since he is supposed to be the scorer on this team, teams are just crowding the lane. and that he doesn't have great handles to get any where near the painted area on a consistent basis. and plus, he's not a great 3 point shooter - so thats a moot point about going 3/20.

last 5 games were a relevation for Derozan, hitting 3's and getting into the lane, and dishing out assists. its more of an outlier right until he proves he can do that over the remaining year.

and its not entirely up to Derozan to rely on Bargnani per say but it does help when one of the other bigs is out guarding Bargnani at the perimeter.

[koreancabbage]

Derozan cannot score against the elite defenders or simply above average defenders so Gay will probably have the ball most of the time, look to see derozans ppg drop.

or the other wing defender won't come help on Derozan when Gay is on the perimeter as well as another big coming to defend Bargnani. I think Derozan's ppg will go down as well since you are getting Bargnani back and getting another scoring wing. I think Gay gets to 20+ ppg for the remainder of the season, Bargnani at around 16 and so is Derozan. Lowry probably anywhere 12-15. Anderson at around like 10, Ross at like 6. Amir will probably get his 10-12.

There's definitely more balance, scoring wise. and it shores up our bench as well with Andersons and Ross. and probably play small ball with Klieza and Fields at the 4 spot at times too.

[B2B]

Derozan cannot score against the elite defenders or simply above average defenders so Gay will probably have the ball most of the time, look to see derozans ppg drop.

Isn't the idea behind Gay as the potential go to option, that the elite defenders would be focused on him & not DeRozan, as a result putting him against the lesser defender or vice, versa.

Where defensive pressure/focus is concerned, Gay vs Fields who is averaging 5 ppg on 40% shooting should in theory benefit DeRozan regardless of any duplication in skill set.

[Vdot]

It would have been funny if they gave Rudy Gay the jersey number 69

[Johann]

Why would that be funny?

He's number 22.

[ghettosean]

Derozan cannot score against the elite defenders or simply above average defenders so Gay will probably have the ball most of the time, look to see derozans ppg drop.

This is true but if defenses are focusing on Gay and possibly doubling him and not DD then that should make his job a lot easier and I expect him to be more efficient and get a lot more easy shots than he is used to.

[B2B]

This is true but if defenses are focusing on Gay and possibly doubling him and not DD then that should make his job a lot easier and I expect him to be more efficient and get a lot more easy shots than he is used to.

Even if there's no double, it would make a noticeable difference.

Size being a factor, Fields & AA are SG/SF's, Gay is a SF/PF. DeRozan is great post option against smaller players, it would be hard for teams to switch the bigger defender on Derozan in the post with Gay on court, over the previous option of a 6'7" Fields, who's an non factor on ball.

[ghettosean]

Even if there's no double, it would make a noticeable difference.

Size being a factor, Fields & AA are SG/SF's, Gay is a SF/PF. DeRozan is great post option against smaller players, it would be hard for teams to switch the bigger defender on Derozan in the post with Gay on court, over the previous option of a 6'7" Fields, who's an non factor on ball.

Agreed... The more I talk about this the more excited I get and if Andrea is coming off the bench he should be very effective too as he is used to being doubled and not playing aganist bench players. Hopefully we see a little more out of him also.... This hopefully make him more attractive in a trade scenario or maybe it will just work out for the better.