Rudy Gay to the Raptors Trade Discussion Part II

[Bramaca]

Don't disagree but will say this, is tanking the only way to be in the draft lotto?.

i.e Portland traded for GW & traded him out quickly as he came for a high pick in a deep draft no less.

A high lotto pick can be aquired by trade although it is probably harder to get a good one with trade (especially without a lower lotto pick yourself to trade) then by tanking. Otherwise I would say you had a point if you could show any indication that BC would even consider doing something like this. In 17-18 years as a gm he has never traded up in the draft let alone traded for a lottery pick. It seems about as likely as the Raps signing a superstar free agent.

[gwrighter]

Bottom line is Durant isn't coming to the Raptors. Take it to the bank.

(Not to negate your well thought out response with a simplistic answer - but I just don't see it.)

It wasn't so much of a realistic example but more of a play on the uncertainty that is the NBA. Few people initially believed in the possibility that Rudy Gay would eventually be a Raptor when B2B proposed the idea I believe in the summer of 2011 but look at us now.

You're over-valuing the Canadian consumer sports market, specifically Toronto based teams. Maybe if we had an NFL team you could bank on Canadian viewers throughout the country (which wouldn't matter because the NFL works with a very restrictive, money generating cap system) because it would be the nations only NFL team and Canadians in general (especially out west) are partial to football.

But when it comes to the Leafs and Raps, very few people outside of Toronto could give a flying ****. Not to say that they aren't revenue generating teams, compared to their American counterparts on average they absolutely are, but not enough to condone luxury dollar spending.

You're hoping that the Raps are going to turn into a brand that is parallel to New York or LA on the backs of Rogers and Bell spending boatloads of cash in penalty dollars?

You're dreaming.

I really am not over-valuing anything. & like Luther King it all starts with a dream initially. You're a particularly savvy poster so you'll catch my drift.

When I look at Canada I see great opportunity for Canadian basketball. The fact that there are not very many basketball fans outside of southern Ontario is amazing. That there is the opportunity for growth. We have a completely unsaturated market for basketball.

Consider the talent level of Canadians now a days. Tristan Thompson, Cory Joseph, Andrew Wiggins, Anthony Bennett, Myck Kabongo etc. We have a bunch of young guys coming up looking to make their mark in the league.

Think of the 2016 olympic basketball team. Canada will probably be able to field a full NBA roster by that point that has a serious chance at medalling. That right there will help generate exposure Canada wide for the sport of basketball. what about 2020 maybe we can challenge for Gold with a bunch of our young guys in their prime.

If you look at the growth that this country has gone through in the last decade how can you say that we won't be a huge brand in a decade from now. Canada went from Nash and Todd MacCulloch to what now seems like two handfuls of talented basketball players and the next Lebron in Wiggins coming down the pipeline. Basketball in Canada is on the upswing.

Rogers/Bell aren't thinking of this year or next year. They are thinking of the next 20-30 years. Basketball will eventually be recognized as the other TRUE Canadian sport invented by a CANADIAN. They just haven't woken up to it yet.

[B2B]

A high lotto pick can be aquired by trade although it is probably harder to get a good one with trade (especially without a lower lotto pick yourself to trade) then by tanking. Otherwise I would say you had a point if you could show any indication that BC would even consider doing something like this. In 17-18 years as a gm he has never traded up in the draft let alone traded for a lottery pick. It seems about as likely as the Raps signing a superstar free agent.

Harder to get, not impossible.

As for BC, can't speak on his behalf. Would like this direction though

Lowry + Gay - 26

Ross + Val - 5ys rookie scale

Trade out Bargnani & DeRozan for picks even if it meant taking back equally bad/worse contracts. (Previously mentioned Cats trade for Detroit pick)

^ Imagine with Davis gone, Thomas coming back with a pick could make sense??...

[Bramaca]

Harder to get, not impossible.

As for BC, can't speak on his behalf. Would like this direction though

Lowry + Gay - 26

Ross + Val - 5ys rookie scale

Trade out Bargnani & DeRozan for picks even if it meant taking back equally bad/worse contracts. (Previously mentioned Cats trade for Detroit pick)

^ Imagine with Davis gone, Thomas coming back with a pick could make sense??...

So with the protection on the picks you are basically planning for building in a couple years when this experiment ultimately falls apart. I'm down for getting picks for a couple years in the future when we have to rebuild again.

[smith&wesson]

How is he more talented than Bosh?

Obviously talent is subjective but Bosh is a perennial All Star and Gold Medal Olimpic winner.

were not really judging talent based on all star appearances are we ? really ?

we can have this debate between rudy gay and bosh but ill just go ahead and say that id prefer my best player to be a wing player then a pf. its much harder to attain a good wing player then it is a pf. pf's are a dime a dozen in this leaugue.

[Jamiecballer]

Growth doesn't happen over night, 10ys, 4 different teams, traded for Quentin Richardson. He suddenly finds a home in Memphis?.

I'm saying stigma was attached to him until he found a home & success in Memphis. Amazing what success can do to perception.

to each his own man. that's not my belief.

[ghettosean]

You're still missing my point. I agree that if you really want to attract superstar free agents or players in trades then spending ridiculous amounts of money probably would be the best way. But to me its just arguing the best way to drive from here to Paris. Superstars are not coming here no matter what you do. The only way you are going to get them is in the draft.

Not sure if you remember this when we were a winning franchise but here is an example that if you are a winning franchise and have the money to spend a superstar will be willing to come to Toronto:

http://www.insidehoops.com/carter-allen-091804.shtml

Here's a thought. Ray Allen, the Sonics star player, is going into the last year of his current deal and has also said he wouldn't mind being moved. In fact, Allen has called Toronto a desirable city to play in.

[smith&wesson]

man if we can trade derozan and bargs for al jeff & tinsley ... this team could be legit!!!!

lowry/lucas/tinsley
ross/AA
gay/fields
amir/acy/kleiza
al jeff/jonas

3-4th seed ?

[Johann]

BC said on fan590 that he really likes DD/Gay for their love of Toronto

[Bramaca]

Not sure if you remember this when we were a winning franchise but here is an example that if you are a winning franchise and have the money to spend a superstar will be willing to come to Toronto:

http://www.insidehoops.com/carter-allen-091804.shtml

Allen didn't say he wanted to come to Toronto, he made a nice comment about the city that people took for him saying he wanted to come. Not much different then Durants recent comments.

Also, at the time of this comment the Raps were in the middle of their 3rd straight losing season so it had nothing to do with a winning franchise.

[SA5195]

Demar's not going anywhere soon dood's

[canzano55]

I really am not over-valuing anything. & like Luther King it all starts with a dream initially. You're a particularly savvy poster so you'll catch my drift.

When I look at Canada I see great opportunity for Canadian basketball. The fact that there are not very many basketball fans outside of southern Ontario is amazing. That there is the opportunity for growth. We have a completely unsaturated market for basketball.

Consider the talent level of Canadians now a days. Tristan Thompson, Cory Joseph, Andrew Wiggins, Anthony Bennett, Myck Kabongo etc. We have a bunch of young guys coming up looking to make their mark in the league.

Think of the 2016 olympic basketball team. Canada will probably be able to field a full NBA roster by that point that has a serious chance at medalling. That right there will help generate exposure Canada wide for the sport of basketball. what about 2020 maybe we can challenge for Gold with a bunch of our young guys in their prime.

If you look at the growth that this country has gone through in the last decade how can you say that we won't be a huge brand in a decade from now. Canada went from Nash and Todd MacCulloch to what now seems like two handfuls of talented basketball players and the next Lebron in Wiggins coming down the pipeline. Basketball in Canada is on the upswing.

Rogers/Bell aren't thinking of this year or next year. They are thinking of the next 20-30 years. Basketball will eventually be recognized as the other TRUE Canadian sport invented by a CANADIAN. They just haven't woken up to it yet.

You're taking this debate in a completely different direction.

You seem to think that the strength of the Toronto Raptors brand and Canada's appetite for NBA basketball in general is inistricably linked to "more Canadians playing the game" when we've already had great Canadian players in the NBA with little to no increase in coverage.

The fact is that Canadians on average just don't relate to basketball growing up and so they don't watch it over the NHL during primetime viewing periods. Even if Wiggins is the next Lebron, assuming that happens he'll likely be drafted to Seattle or some other abscure American market and although people will notice it won't be profound enough to sell the advertising over Hockey.

Going back to the Raptors, if they were to get Wiggins or a Vince Carter - esque showtime player who is primed for greatness, then perhaps you can validate the luxury spending. Ironically, I'm pretty certain we just ****ed ourselves out of Wiggins and any other quality player for that matter in 2014 so it really doesn't matter now.

Luxury tax is toxic. It was designed by cheapskate owners in the league to repel the big market teams from even thinking about it. Not that I give a **** about the solvency of Bell or Rogers, they're the decrepid poster child of Canadian socialist tendancies that protect Canadian companies by letting them **** Canadian consumers in the ***. They're money hungry, monstrous monopolies that have had the game fixed for them and they're not about to hand the NBA free cash. No way in hell.

[smith&wesson]

BC said on fan590 that he really likes DD/Gay for their love of Toronto

then lets hope they can play well together. if dero can play off of lowry and gay it could work..

he would need to continue to work on his range and passing some more. if dero can average about 12-14 ppg 4rgp and 4apg this can work well for us.

he already averages 4 rebounds and 2.2 apg.. he would just have to shoot a bit less and look for for his team mates some more.

[smith&wesson]

Demar's not going anywhere soon dood's

sure about that ? he may be the only attractive trading chip we have remaining this season.. if we can package him with bargs for a decent return i can see it happening. maybe not this season but perhaps in the off season. id like to see him stay and for it to work with him and gay.

[ink]

Not saying much considering the year Bargnani has had. One could say Acy has outplayed him at this point. Reason his name is on the block.

Realize Calderon helped the team gel but he was expiring, not guaranteed to return.

So then what is the big man rotation now? JVal injured. Bargnani maybe traded, maybe not.