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  1. #376
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tmath View Post
    And what if it doesn't work? rebuild another 5 years?
    However long it takes my freind.

    Crap shoot or not, its the direction of truth.

    But its all moot now. We're basically ****ed for a while so might as well sit back and enjoy the circus.

  2. #377
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    Quote Originally Posted by canzano55 View Post
    However long it takes my freind.

    Crap shoot or not, its the direction of truth.

    But its all moot now. We're basically ****ed for a while so might as well sit back and enjoy the circus.
    Gay and Lowry will put on a show.

  3. #378
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    Quote Originally Posted by gwrighter View Post
    Nope. OKC traded away Harden because they didn't want to spend the money. Same with Rudy Gay in this instance. The Nets were never a desirable location until a billionaire oil tycoon bought the team and was committed to spending.(Dwight wanted to go to the Nets and might still want to go)

    The players will ultimately go to where they can get the most money. Hence why the Lakers continually buy up the best talent and consequently have the highest payroll almost every season.
    Great post... I'm in 100% agreement with this especially the bolded.


    Quote Originally Posted by knicksfan42 View Post
    ...For me a large part of it is that they were rivals. LeBron vs Wade was a great rivalry and for them to team up just doesn't sit right with me. It would've been cool if LeBron had gone to the Bulls.....
    and Bosh to the Heat to join Wade. That would've been awesome... I would've respected LeBron way more if he went there.
    Why have great rivals when you can join them and have none.... Lebron James where losing the spirit of competition happens!

  4. #379
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    Quote Originally Posted by magikmc View Post
    How about:
    continue on with Ross, Val, Ed, Amir, DD
    Wait two more years before going crazy with your cap
    Flip your players like Calderon and Bargnani for any draft picks you can get
    You don't trade a 1st rounder for a questionable PG
    Draft two more players that are likely to be lottery picks
    Have a ton of cap room to re-sign your players coming into their prime (if they are worth it)
    Most likely you have a group of young studs that would include AT LEAST 6 lottery picks and probably more depending on what you get on your return

    I'll take my chances with 7-8 home-grown lottery picks as the staple to your team. I think that's a re-build!

    If we continue with Ross, Val, Ed, Amir and DD we would cease being a perpetual top lottery team.
    We can go crazy with the cap in two years because Rudy Gay and Bargs will be off the books anyways.
    You need to have veteran leadership on a team to steer the ship or else you risk having a losing culture develop.
    Lowry when healthy performs at a top 10 PG level. A lottery pick is worth that IMO.
    Draft two more players how, we wouldn't be bad enough with the core you mentioned above.
    What if the players aren't good enough? then you have a whole bunch of cap space and nothing to use it on.
    What if a lot of those guys bust and you end up wasting 3 years while losing fan interest and developing a losing culture?
    Raptors Franchise Checklist:
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  5. #380
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    Quote Originally Posted by ink View Post
    Gay and Lowry will put on a show.
    For better or worse...

  6. #381
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghettosean View Post
    Teams that don't spend money to get good assets usually aren't a desirable market unless you can prove me wrong on that
    Desireable market places are pretty much set; LA, New York, Miami, Chicago (a little). It has more to do with location and size then what the team spends. You can't really buy your way into that group. Look at San Antonio, they have spent money over the years going in and out of the tax and winning titles yet no players ever demanded a trade their and there was no big name free agents signing there. Oklahoma made the finals and had an amazing core that were getting great contracts yet in a year where star players were demanding out of their teams not one of them wanted to go to Oklahoma. Had nothing to do with the money.

  7. #382
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    Quote Originally Posted by gwrighter View Post
    Nope. OKC traded away Harden because they didn't want to spend the money. Same with Rudy Gay in this instance. The Nets were never a desirable location until a billionaire oil tycoon bought the team and was committed to spending.(Dwight wanted to go to the Nets and might still want to go)
    Brooklyn is basically NYC. There's your reason.

    The players will ultimately go to where they can get the most money. Hence why the Lakers continually buy up the best talent and consequently have the highest payroll almost every season.
    The Lakers get the players because they have all those pennants in the rafters. Any team can offer the max.

  8. #383
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    Quote Originally Posted by magikmc View Post
    That's the thing though. I, as well as other were saying move Bosh waaaaay back then. You could have started a rebuild at that point. It was a foregone conclusion that A) we weren't winning with Bosh as the centerpiece and B) we weren't gong to be able to keep him.
    I agree and the moves you are talking about are obvious now after the dust has settled since he bolted from us but I think B.C had pressure from management to make Bosh the face of the franchise I don't believe it was his choice really to hang onto Bosh. Me judging B.C and his moves started immediately after Bosh left the team and all the pieces B.C has put together were left.


    Quote Originally Posted by knicksfan42 View Post
    ...For me a large part of it is that they were rivals. LeBron vs Wade was a great rivalry and for them to team up just doesn't sit right with me. It would've been cool if LeBron had gone to the Bulls.....
    and Bosh to the Heat to join Wade. That would've been awesome... I would've respected LeBron way more if he went there.
    Why have great rivals when you can join them and have none.... Lebron James where losing the spirit of competition happens!

  9. #384
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    Quote Originally Posted by canzano55 View Post
    However long it takes my freind.

    Crap shoot or not, its the direction of truth.

    But its all moot now. We're basically ****ed for a while so might as well sit back and enjoy the circus.
    You're not giving our current draft picks enough credit. Jonas projects to be a good NBA centre, Ross looks to be quite promising as well. Derozan still young and learning the game has not hit his ceiling.

    Our whole starting lineup save for Amir have the potential to be top 10 players at their position.

    Lowry- top 10
    Derozan- potential top 10
    Gay- top 10
    Amir
    Jonas - potential top 10

    Ross - shows flashes of top 10 potential
    Raptors Franchise Checklist:
    Rebuild with young players [ ]
    Build contending team [ ]
    Host NBA All-Star Weekend [ ]
    Win Championship [ ]

  10. #385
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tmath View Post
    And what if it doesn't work? rebuild another 5 years?
    Yeah. Eventually it will work because eventually your team will have talent. It's fact. Law of statistics. Whatever you want to call it. If you have 10 years of high draft picks the likelihood you land star players is very high. Additionally, if you're not wasting your cap, you will have the opportunity to offer a group of stars contracts when others cannot. See Miami, Chicago, NYK, Brooklyn etc.

    We haven't been competitive in 10 years. If we had of dedicated the last 5 to rebuilding properly I like the chances of being competitive.

  11. #386
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    Quote Originally Posted by gwrighter View Post
    Nope. OKC traded away Harden because they didn't want to spend the money. Same with Rudy Gay in this instance. The Nets were never a desirable location until a billionaire oil tycoon bought the team and was committed to spending.(Dwight wanted to go to the Nets and might still want to go)

    The players will ultimately go to where they can get the most money. Hence why the Lakers continually buy up the best talent and consequently have the highest payroll almost every season.
    Dwight, Lebron, etc. are going to get the same amount of money from a team no matter where they go, a max contract. The money they get outside of their league pay is what can change which is why LA and New York is where players want to go. Oklahoma or Toronto could offer them the same but it won't make a difference.

  12. #387
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    Quote Originally Posted by gwrighter View Post
    You're not giving our current draft picks enough credit. Jonas projects to be a good NBA centre, Ross looks to be quite promising as well. Derozan still young and learning the game has not hit his ceiling.

    Our whole starting lineup save for Amir have the potential to be top 10 players at their position.

    Lowry- top 10
    Derozan- potential top 10
    Gay- top 10
    Amir
    Jonas - potential top 10

    Ross - shows flashes of top 10 potential
    You're assuming these guys are going to be good enough on their own to carry the team. I doubt that, highly. If you fill out the rest of the team with young players and few OLD OLD vets that are going to sit on the bench, that team isn't going to be good and headed for the lottery. You need depth to win, and injuries are going to happen.

    Cleveland is going to be very good in a couple years because they are doing exactly what I'm talking about.

  13. #388
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    Quote Originally Posted by ink View Post
    Brooklyn is basically NYC. There's your reason.
    Nets weren't Brooklyn until big money showed up and built a new stadium in BK. Big money took that franchise from NJ to NY. Without Prokhorov the Nets would still be as undesirable as they once were.

    The Lakers get the players because they have all those pennants in the rafters. Any team can offer the max.
    Because players know that the Lakers will spend what they have to in order to get the talent & keep the talent that it takes to win the championship.

    Look at the Mavs. They continually spent into the Lux to put teams around Dirk to contend but only recently won the championship. Their payroll was 85mil that season.
    Raptors Franchise Checklist:
    Rebuild with young players [ ]
    Build contending team [ ]
    Host NBA All-Star Weekend [ ]
    Win Championship [ ]

  14. #389
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    Quote Originally Posted by ink View Post
    Brooklyn is basically NYC. There's your reason.


    The Lakers get the players because they have all those pennants in the rafters. Any team can offer the max.
    Looking farther in the past there are teams like

    - ATL signing Joe Johnson to Max before he went to the Nets (though he was overpaid)
    - Utah signing Boozer back in the day for a big $$$ after he left the Cavs

    There are lots of teams that go where the grass is greener... I agree and think that with the new ownership of Bell and Rogers that we will see them throwing money around to bring talent in T.O. Only time will tell but getting Gay I think is a sign of things to come as I believe they want to change the culture and keep us as a competative team that will make some noise (something similar like in Atlanta).


    Quote Originally Posted by knicksfan42 View Post
    ...For me a large part of it is that they were rivals. LeBron vs Wade was a great rivalry and for them to team up just doesn't sit right with me. It would've been cool if LeBron had gone to the Bulls.....
    and Bosh to the Heat to join Wade. That would've been awesome... I would've respected LeBron way more if he went there.
    Why have great rivals when you can join them and have none.... Lebron James where losing the spirit of competition happens!

  15. #390
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    Quote Originally Posted by gwrighter View Post
    You're not giving our current draft picks enough credit. Jonas projects to be a good NBA centre, Ross looks to be quite promising as well. Derozan still young and learning the game has not hit his ceiling.

    Our whole starting lineup save for Amir have the potential to be top 10 players at their position.

    Lowry- top 10
    Derozan- potential top 10
    Gay- top 10
    Amir
    Jonas - potential top 10

    Ross - shows flashes of top 10 potential
    Lets say Ross and Jonas pan out. We could have flipped Demar for picks or matched him with a player we wanted to dump. Same for Lowry and Davis.

    Basically we could have had fire sales while keeping our young guys intact and drafted our SF in 2014 leaving us with huge flexibility and a clear path going forward.

    Now we're stuck in capped out limbo with a team that is too bad to contend and too good to tank.

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