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  1. #256
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    I can't be upset about this deal. Ed is a solid young big, but that's all I see him being. Solid. Nothing special. Rudy Gay is a legit talent and when is the last time we could say that about our SF? Acquiring him is a no brainer, talent wise. Yes his contract is big, but that's the price you gotta pay if you want talent, especially us being a bad team. I'm really excited to see this new team play and hope this change can motivate Rudy into becoming the player he has the potential to be.

    S E A N....M A Y N E

  2. #257
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    Quote Originally Posted by lajoie View Post
    That's the problem. I don't share your optimism
    fair enough. heck i've actually gone from Derozan hater to admiring his growth.

    but if we pan out their career paths and lets say lets judge them off their potential:

    Lowry, top 10 PG, and he has played at that level in Houston and at times, in Toronto
    Demar, top 10 SG in this league already, largely recognized as near the 8-10th spot
    Gay, top 10 SF in this league already.

    JVal, obviously raw, but he has that motor and soft touch around the basketball. safe to say he can be a top 10 C in this league.


    and we also have:
    Bargnani, top 10 when motivated, which is few and lost in translation. I was hoping he could come back and make a change to his philosophy of playing team basketball.

    Amir/ Fields: good role players to have.

    Ross: I would say he can become a top 10 SG eventually and one of the better two way players in this league. There is a reason why BC won't trade him and let Ed Davis go instead. Ross says he will would bring highlights in his post draft interview and that he has made good on it.



  3. #258
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    Quote Originally Posted by koreancabbage View Post
    fair enough. heck i've actually gone from Derozan hater to admiring his growth.

    but if we pan out their career paths and lets say lets judge them off their potential:

    Lowry, top 10 PG, and he has played at that level in Houston and at times, in Toronto
    Demar, top 10 SG in this league already, largely recognized as near the 8-10th spot
    Gay, top 10 SF in this league already.

    JVal, obviously raw, but he has that motor and soft touch around the basketball. safe to say he can be a top 10 C in this league.


    and we also have:
    Bargnani, top 10 when motivated, which is few and lost in translation. I was hoping he could come back and make a change to his philosophy of playing team basketball.

    Amir/ Fields: good role players to have.

    Ross: I would say he can become a top 10 SG eventually and one of the better two way players in this league. There is a reason why BC won't trade him and let Ed Davis go instead. Ross says he will would bring highlights in his post draft interview and that he has made good on it.
    Ross and Valanciunas have potential to be good. I'll agree with you there.

    I like Lowry but I can think of 10 pgs I'd rather have than him.
    And then you have Gay, Derozan and Bargnani. Top 10 or not, they are overpaid and severely limit what the Raptors can do.


    The Brilliant Plan of How to Get Andrew Wiggins in a Toronto Uniform
    Quote Originally Posted by deaner View Post
    All I'm saying is the league wants to see Toronto succeeded. An outside chance Silver could say to philly... You know... That's a great trade offer from Toronto for the first pick. It's up to you but we'd love to see wiggins in Toronto.

  4. #259
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    http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=b3ryr8u
    a PG, a big to stretch the floor, and kleiza to balance contracts?

    Hawks get a center and can move horford to his natural PF position. save money for potential free agents.
    timberwolves get gasol for rubio

    raptors get smith?I feel like this is a lobsidded trade, but oh well


  5. #260
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    Think of this deal for Toronto in terms that exclude specifics. The franchise had a competent point guard with a massive expiring contract and a very talented 23-year-old center who is working on a rookie deal paying him less than half of the NBA’s average salary. They turned those assets into Gay, who they’ll pay more than $37 million to over the next two years. Missteps don’t come much more obvious than this.
    http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ba...1538--nba.html

  6. #261
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bramaca View Post
    Right now it doesn't really matter. BC had already taken the team to a point where they aren't in a position to tank and get good talent anymore. And the team isn't in a position to get players to make them a contender so who cares, maybe this will just accelerate the process for when the Raps have to tear it down again.
    I agree. I have a really hard time seeing this lineup succeeding on any great level in the NBA. It will win some games but it will be brutally hard to coach and there is little upside -- not in terms of future talent acquisition or even in current talent (Ross) development. It looks a lot to me like Casey has now been forced to play a few players that he doesn't want to start: Bargnani and Lowry. I don't see any possibility of trading Bargnani alone so I'm pretty sure we will see him as the starting PF when he returns from injury. This feels badly like the Hedo acquisition and it is completely out of place in terms of the team's development.

  7. #262
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamiecballer View Post
    that's not true. what about the camp that thinks 4 guys in the starting 5 who look for their own most of the time is bad basketball strategy? they should be represented as well. most of the people i know who like this deal are the guys who think this is NBA 2K13. "we got a 83! add that to our 77, and our 73, and our other 73, how can that not be great!".

    and the media, which of those 3 options do they belong to?
    we got lowry + gay in one offseason and prior to the trade deadline. i'm going to *assume* more deals are on the horizon. we are changing our makeup a bit and the next shoe to drop will probably be bargs. this roster is in a fluid state right now. what it is today will not be what it is entering next season...or possibly by the deadline.

  8. #263
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    almost every single article that portrays this deal negatively is talking about contract.

    my response - it ain't your money.

    it's only 2 years long and we are getting a major major major upgrade at the sf position.

    what happened to acquiring talent? who the hell wants to watch cap space play?

  9. #264
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    Quote Originally Posted by djsunyc View Post
    almost every single article that portrays this deal negatively is talking about contract.

    my response - it ain't your money.

    it's only 2 years long and we are getting a major major major upgrade at the sf position.

    what happened to acquiring talent? who the hell wants to watch cap space play?
    Agreed.

  10. #265
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    Quote Originally Posted by djsunyc View Post
    almost every single article that portrays this deal negatively is talking about contract.

    my response - it ain't your money.

    it's only 2 years long and we are getting a major major major upgrade at the sf position.

    what happened to acquiring talent? who the hell wants to watch cap space play?
    I'd like to see a good team play, and I still don't think we have one, but hopefully I'm wrong.


  11. #266
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    Quote Originally Posted by lajoie View Post
    http://nba.si.com/2013/01/31/rudy-ga...-construction/

    Sums up what a lot of people think of this team
    Very good article, deserves to be posted. Colangelo has finally outdone himself and this latest deal sheds light on all the other deals and moves that he has been forgiven by many for. This Rudy Gay deal really is inexplicable ....

    Rudy Gay arrives in Toronto with a proven track record as a scorer, a recognizable name and a contract so burdensome it has become an inextricable part of his standing as a basketball player. There’s a cogent reason, after all, that the Grizzlies were willing to part with Gay for a collection of modest supporting parts in a three-team, six-player trade Wednesday; the next two seasons will see his contract rise from $16.5 million to $17.9 million to $19.3 million, the kind of salary that becomes untenable when strapped to a player unworthy of even All-Star consideration.

    Gay is a talent, and Raptors general manager Bryan Colangelo has made a play for potential at only the cost of Ed Davis, Jose Calderon and his expiring contract and a second-round pick. But in this case he also seems to be getting a bit ahead of himself from a team construction standpoint, crippling the Raptors’ options by way of his own decision-making momentum.


    Colangelo, it seems, cannot be stopped — or at least can’t seem to stop himself once he gets on a roll. One move leads to another which justifies a third and which necessitates one more, all executed without the bother of spending discretion or patience. His managerial style simply strips a team of its brakes, which for a rebuilding franchise is more than a mere inconvenience. By racing through the roster-building process, Colangelo quickly smashes a mediocre roster into the salary-cap and luxury-tax lines, two thresholds that dramatically limit the means through which teams can get better. The very process of improvement requires a delicacy of timing that Colangelo just doesn’t seem to grasp, as he racks up the kinds of contracts that only seem to work against the Raptors’ best interests.

    In that sense, the acquisition of Gay is only the latest in a long line of moves that began with a five-year, $50 million extension for Andrea Bargnani. That initial blunder was then exacerbated by Colangelo’s stubborn refusal to trade his perennial disappointment of a franchise centerpiece, and his rejection of a more thorough rebuild after Chris Bosh’s departure in free agency in 2010. From there, mid-level(ish) deals for Amir Johnson, Linas Kleiza and Landry Fields — which may have made sense independently, but together make up about 28 percent of the team’s room under the cap — only stacked atop Toronto’s other considerable salary commitments.

    But perhaps no single move was more declarative than the Raptors’ preemptive offer to DeMar DeRozan, a decent enough player and positive personality who will be (over)paid $9.5 million annually through 2017. Once Colangelo had committed so much to so limited a core, this kind of gambit was to be expected. The Raptors had amassed enough salary that Calderon’s expiring $10.6 million contract wouldn’t create enough cap space for Toronto to reinvent itself, all but ensuring that Colangelo would trade his starting point guard in any move that brought a decent basketball return.

    And by all means, this trade accomplishes that much. Gay may not make much sense lining up opposite DeRozan on the wing, nor does he have the kind of skill set that would make for straightforward chemistry with point guard Kyle Lowry. But behind the many criticisms of Gay’s game is a consistent productivity highlighted by an ability to hit difficult shots. That trait extends well beyond showmanship and could provide real value to a team that’s been atrocious in closing games and creating offense in difficult spots this season.

    That Gay almost goes out of his way to attempt those difficult looks — mostly on long, contested, doomed two-point jumpers — is another matter entirely. There’s still something to be said about the player and potential underneath all the decision-making baggage. Even at 26, Gay still has a chance to self-actualize, as his skills and attributes suggest a player far better than the one slumping to a below-league-average Player Efficiency Rating this season. Gay doesn’t have the same broad, do-it-all arsenal that characterizes the NBA’s best wing players, but I see no reason why a focused scorer with this kind of athleticism, ball control and touch couldn’t make more out of his opportunities. Gay’s offensive inefficiencies nag at both his individual potential and that of his team, but it’s at least understandable how Colangelo might be tantalized by visions of what a fully realized Gay would be able to provide.

    But with Calderon gone, Toronto now badly needs the kinds of shooters and ball-movers who could best facilitate Lowry’s work as a drive-and-kick engine. Instead, the Raptors will settle for two wings who can’t stretch out to the three-point line and tend to produce most consistently when in deliberate offensive roles. Neither is ultimately effective enough to validate such prominent positioning, and therein lies one of the many problems involved with banking on this duo. The Raptors have pinned more than $27 million of their cap over the next two seasons on Gay and DeRozan alone, and though neither is necessarily selfish, both have redundant, scoring-specific games. Because of that, they don’t simply need to develop for this acquisition to make any kind of sense for the Raptors — they need to evolve along different trajectories that could in turn make them more complementary teammates.

    Or, DeRozan or Gay could at least become tradeable enough that upstart rookie Terrence Ross could eventually take one of their places. But that’s neither here nor there, because Fields and Alan Anderson were already stealing minutes away from Ross before Wednesday’s deal, and Gay’s arrival could well bury the most promising young Raptor in the depth chart. There’s a rotational justification that goes into validating all of these lucrative moves, and in the short term it would seem that Ross may be denied the opportunities that would otherwise facilitate his growth. In that way, Ross, not unlike the Raptors, appears stuck.

    Behind the massive paychecks drawn by their recently extended and acquired wings of the future, the Raptors have $72.2 million committed next season — though that number will undoubtedly be slashed to $67.6 million when Toronto amnesties the contextually useless Kleiza. That still leaves this team a rookie-scale deal and change away from luxury-tax territory despite being poised for a .500 record, and with neither the flexibility necessary to make creative moves nor the expendable assets needed to make simple ones.

    In fairness to the big picture, we haven’t yet seen the deal that is sure to come in the aftermath of this one. Bargnani’s trade value may be at an all-time low, but Gay’s arrival only reinforces the need to trade him. It would be hard to find a big man with a style less agreeable to Gay’s, and Toronto’s success in Bargnani’s absence has likely made critics of even his most defiant supporters. That Davis — the young big man slotted to take Bargnani’s place — is gone hardly matters at this point; the Raptors will move forward with Amir Johnson and Jonas Valanciunas as core members of their growing lineup while Bargnani’s exodus inches closer and closer.

    Of course, Colangelo may be forced to take back some mess of equivalent, long-term salary to unload the all-offense big man. With a roster that is (as of now) capped out through 2015, one can already guess how that endeavor progresses. Toronto’s mismanagement rolls from one move to the next, making Gay’s cap-crippling addition only a transition. Next comes Bargnani’s potentially costly departure. Then the ensuing move to resolve whatever issues arrive on the wing. Then a decision on Lowry’s long-term future in Toronto. Then another desperation move, and another lateral trade and another ill-fated attempt at improvement — all inevitabilities set in motion long ago, and sustained by a runaway plan deprived of even the slightest restraint.

    There are no easy outs, save one: With the Raptors’ momentum barreling out of control, might it be time for a new conductor?
    http://nba.si.com/2013/01/31/rudy-ga...-construction/

  12. #267
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    Quote Originally Posted by djsunyc View Post
    almost every single article that portrays this deal negatively is talking about contract.
    you should read the one ink just posted then

    edit: of course he posts another one in the time it took me to post. read the one before that - the one from ball don't lie.
    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    well unfortunately it looks like you were right about Bargs...

    but hopefully we can use his expiring, if not at least we unloaded Novak's deal...

  13. #268
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    I'm not a fan of this trade but some of you need to chill out on the direction of the team until after the deadline. BC said he was not done so we should wait and see what happens next.
    “It’s about winning,” Stoudemire said. “You win, you’re going to get on national TV. Simple. In Phoenix, we won — Western Conference finals three, four years, playoffs every year. We won. If you don’t win, nobody really wants to see you.”

  14. #269
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    All the pundits/critics/haters/bloggers and so called experts will throw in their 2 pennies worth about this trade for days/ weeks and months to come, I don't care.

    I am glad that this was done and we can move forward. I hate seeing both Jose and Ed go but selling high on them was the best route to take.

    I am starting to like this new ownership group, they are more willing to take a risk than just standing pat. I expect more changes before the trade deadline and during the off season.

    A new 2013-14 Raptors season is beginning to take shape after yesterday's big bold move.

    Val/Gay/Lowry...now they can just plug in the right pieces.

  15. #270
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddler The Gr8 View Post
    I'd like to see a good team play, and I still don't think we have one, but hopefully I'm wrong.
    BC isn't done bro, let things play out.

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