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  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mile High Champ View Post
    First off each of your first 4 points mean little until we see all the all other pieces fall first. There are clearly going to be more moves coming that will in turn set up the roster better. Yes the depth at big's is an issue but it can be easily addressed. As I said in my post on the last page, Davis and Jonas simply were not going to work together going forward. The Raptors were never going to attreact a player of Gay's ability and potential in free agency and in turn have to make trades for these kind of players. Yes money is going to be an issue but by the time Ross and Jonas truly hit their stride you have Gay's massive expiring contract and Fields deal coming off the books. Money will be tight the next few seasons but this does not handcuff us for the next 10 years so people really need to chill about the finances of the deal.

    Pleas refer to my post on the last page explaining why it is a good deal basketball wise. I do get into why it was a great move selling on Ed Davis right now.
    If the team doesn't move one of Bargnani/DeRozan for cap, resigining Lowry will take the team into tax. One or both will be gone before this point, IMO.

  2. #152
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    The forward position in the East is weak. Maybe we can get an All star next year.

  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddler The Gr8 View Post
    shooting I guess. and we have 27 PF's anyways
    Exactly,

    Tonight an exhausted/hurt Amir put up 14 boards & 4 blocks

    Paired with Gray against a quick/athletic front court.

    Raptors points in the paint 42 - 40

    Raptors boards 52 - 36

    People are talking about Davis developing a right hand, not Boozer putting up 17 points on Davis in a quarter or GS scoring 60+ points in the paint.
    Last edited by B2B; 01-31-2013 at 12:37 AM.

  4. #154
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    I guess i'll take a bite at this thread. Mostly everyone in this thread is okay with overpaying for mediocre players but the moment they overpay for a top ten sf, they get mad. Beleive it or not but we are in a pretty good position with Gay entering his prime. Gay was the only reason why Gasol and Randolph are putting up monster numbers is because he causes so much attention out on the court. Sure we lost Ed davis, but who cares, it's not like were actually developing this kid to his full potential.

  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by Legitimate View Post
    I guess i'll take a bite at this thread. Mostly everyone in this thread is okay with overpaying for mediocre players but the moment they overpay for a top ten sf, they get mad. Beleive it or not but we are in a pretty good position with Gay entering his prime. Gay was the only reason why Gasol and Randolph are putting up monster numbers is because he causes so much attention out on the court. Sure we lost Ed davis, but who cares, it's not like were actually developing this kid to his full potential.
    So how do you explain the monster numbers they put up when Gay was injured for half the season and the playoffs?


    The Brilliant Plan of How to Get Andrew Wiggins in a Toronto Uniform
    Quote Originally Posted by deaner View Post
    All I'm saying is the league wants to see Toronto succeeded. An outside chance Silver could say to philly... You know... That's a great trade offer from Toronto for the first pick. It's up to you but we'd love to see wiggins in Toronto.

  6. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by lajoie View Post
    So how do you explain the monster numbers they put up when Gay was injured for half the season and the playoffs?
    Any player can come out hot until teams start preparing for them and knowing what they are about. After awhile teams and players start getting exposed out there.

  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by B2B View Post
    Exactly,

    Tonight an exhausted/hurt Amir put up 14 boards & 4 blocks

    Paired with Gray against a quick/athletic front court.

    Raptors points in the paint 42 - 40

    Raptors boards 52 - 36

    People are talking about Davis developing a right hand, not Boozer putting up 17 points on Davis in a quarter or GS scoring 60+ points in the paint.
    I wasn't totally against trading Davis. I did want to keep him though because I liked his improvement and wanted to see how good he'd get


  8. #158
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    Gay was leading score on a top team in the nba, enough with this.

  9. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by Legitimate View Post
    Gay was leading score on a top team in the nba, enough with this.
    he took the most shots on the team and was the most inefficient scorer in the lineup. he got traded for a reason.


  10. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mile High Champ View Post
    First off each of your first 4 points mean little until we see all the all other pieces fall first. There are clearly going to be more moves coming that will in turn set up the roster better. Yes the depth at big's is an issue but it can be easily addressed. As I said in my post on the last page, Davis and Jonas simply were not going to work together going forward. The Raptors were never going to attreact a player of Gay's ability and potential in free agency and in turn have to make trades for these kind of players. Yes money is going to be an issue but by the time Ross and Jonas truly hit their stride you have Gay's massive expiring contract and Fields deal coming off the books. Money will be tight the next few seasons but this does not handcuff us for the next 10 years so people really need to chill about the finances of the deal.



    Personally I am happy we traded Davis when his value was at his highest. I for one never saw the frontcourt of Ed Davis and Jonas Valanciunas ever working. Both players have far too similar of an offensive game to be effective. Davis has a very weak shot outside of 15 feet and I really believe we need a guy with a stronger mid range game than Davis will likely ever bring. Do I believe Davis will ever develop this? No I don't since he is so effective right at the rim and coaches will have him stick with what he does well. With Davis and Jonas Valanciunas in the post, we simply have too many bigs crowding the paint when we have three guards/fowrard on the peremter capable of breaking down the D and getting the ball to the basket. We need spacing and Davis and Valanciunas are not the answer together. Additionally Davis also lacked the strength and size to guard most power forwards in the league. Davis simply got abused in post defense giving up nearly a full 1 point per possesion. Yes this could also improve but I doubt it. In the end Valanciunas simply has more upside and he gives you everything Davis does but he is a much more capable defender, shot blocker and rebounder. Davis is not a particlarly good offensive rebounder either which limits his effectivness in my mind in expanding his game.

    I am sad to see Calderon go but I do believe it was neccesary in letting Lowry develop. Lowry is the type of player that needs a defined role. I am not saying that the role has to be given to him but I do believe if he knows what his responsibility and assignment is each night, he wil perform at a high level and I do believe that he even one day MAYBE reach that top 5 PG level he has shown in the past. Lasy year before he got injured, he was playing at an elite level. Lowry certainly has all the tools and I really like what I have seen from him of late with his unselfish play and playmaking.

    Pleas refer to my post on the last page explaining why it is a good deal basketball wise. I do get into why it was a great move selling on Ed Davis right now.
    I'm not trying to be a dick, but you're speaking as if you know what is going to happen. My first four points, as of right now, are facts. While, you are SUGGESTING that other moves are going to be made. What moves are we going to make is my question? How can depth at the big position be EASILY addressed. Amir is our only sure thing at that position right now. And he is hugely foul prone. I'm not sure how you can make the statement that Val and Ed were not going to work together with so much confidence. We have seen nothing of Val yet. We have seen continuous improvement in Ed. They are two young promising players. There is no reason to say "it couldn't work" on such a small sample size with two players that have loads of potential. I'm not so sure about the offensive rebounding. For his career he has averaged 2.3/game which would be good for 12th in the league. That's while playing 24 mins per game. Regardless I'm not going to get in an argument about the potential here. Based on the basketball, we have a terrible 3-point shooting team and a team that won't be very good in the paint. We don't get better defensively by removing davis and adding Gay either.

    So what if this doesn't work with Gay? Then he's an expiring after two years, not a short period of time and Val and Ross MAY be coming into their own. We are going to be right back where we are now, or possibly worse. Then it will be back to; do we rebuild, continue with mediocrity, etc. etc. Even if Gay turns out to be great, I don't see how the supporting cast is good enough. Then that leaves us with no way to acquire high drafts picks because we are in the middle of the pack. This move does nothing to envelope a plan towards the future nor make us competitive now.

    This is the entire problem. We need to develop a team where players DO want to come here. You know why we don't develop that? Because we don't have a winning culture. The notion that players don't want to play here because of it being in Canada or whatever else is ridiculous. Don't you think everyone wants to play in OKC now? Of course, because they have a winning team. Athletes like to win.

    Why are you so sure that Gay is about to explode? That's what Memphis was feeling season after season, and it never happened. He's in his prime right at this moment and having the worst season of his career. He's not going to learn how to play defense all of a sudden. He won't get better at 3's. Where is he going to improve?

    Lowry has shown nothing to make me confident in his future as a POINT GUARD. We are something like 2-20 with him starting, and he hasn't shown an ability to be a playmaker. I don't even think we have a passer on the roster now. Anderson might be the best and he's not guaranteed to be around. Additionally, Lowry has not shown he's able to stay healthy. We just put all our eggs in one basket that isn't padded.

    People are posting as if there are some major moves to come. There may be some MINOR moves to be had, but we simply don't have enough to get an upgrade IMO with our current cap situation. If these moves don't happen, I genuinely think we could be worse than we are now. Which, would be a saving grace in my opinion. BC will be gone and we can be done with these make-shift trades.

    Now, after my rant of negativity, I will still be a Raptor fan and hope I'm COMPLETELY off. I REALLY hope I'm wrong. I want this Raptor team to succeed SO bad.

  11. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddler The Gr8 View Post
    I wasn't totally against trading Davis. I did want to keep him though because I liked his improvement and wanted to see how good he'd get
    Don't get me wrong, Davis took some nice strides in his game, most notably his jumper & he could still stand to improve in the following seasons & I wish him well.

    The hole at SF, drafting Acy, his contract extension, the redundancy in Amir overall PF depth. Helped make him expendable to fill that hole.

  12. #162
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    The only way this trade is a positive is if we can trade Bargnani for another PF who isn't an NBA senior citizen. I'm not sure how people can't see how moving Davis will domino the decisions with our roster, especially with our bigs.

  13. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by magikmc View Post
    I'm not trying to be a dick, but you're speaking as if you know what is going to happen. My first four points, as of right now, are facts. While, you are SUGGESTING that other moves are going to be made. What moves are we going to make is my question? How can depth at the big position be EASILY addressed. Amir is our only sure thing at that position right now. And he is hugely foul prone. I'm not sure how you can make the statement that Val and Ed were not going to work together with so much confidence. We have seen nothing of Val yet. We have seen continuous improvement in Ed. They are two young promising players. There is no reason to say "it couldn't work" on such a small sample size with two players that have loads of potential. I'm not so sure about the offensive rebounding. For his career he has averaged 2.3/game which would be good for 12th in the league. That's while playing 24 mins per game. Regardless I'm not going to get in an argument about the potential here. Based on the basketball, we have a terrible 3-point shooting team and a team that won't be very good in the paint. We don't get better defensively by removing davis and adding Gay either.

    So what if this doesn't work with Gay? Then he's an expiring after two years, not a short period of time and Val and Ross MAY be coming into their own. We are going to be right back where we are now, or possibly worse. Then it will be back to; do we rebuild, continue with mediocrity, etc. etc. Even if Gay turns out to be great, I don't see how the supporting cast is good enough. Then that leaves us with no way to acquire high drafts picks because we are in the middle of the pack. This move does nothing to envelope a plan towards the future nor make us competitive now.

    This is the entire problem. We need to develop a team where players DO want to come here. You know why we don't develop that? Because we don't have a winning culture. The notion that players don't want to play here because of it being in Canada or whatever else is ridiculous. Don't you think everyone wants to play in OKC now? Of course, because they have a winning team. Athletes like to win.

    Why are you so sure that Gay is about to explode? That's what Memphis was feeling season after season, and it never happened. He's in his prime right at this moment and having the worst season of his career. He's not going to learn how to play defense all of a sudden. He won't get better at 3's. Where is he going to improve?

    Lowry has shown nothing to make me confident in his future as a POINT GUARD. We are something like 2-20 with him starting, and he hasn't shown an ability to be a playmaker. I don't even think we have a passer on the roster now. Anderson might be the best and he's not guaranteed to be around. Additionally, Lowry has not shown he's able to stay healthy. We just put all our eggs in one basket that isn't padded.

    People are posting as if there are some major moves to come. There may be some MINOR moves to be had, but we simply don't have enough to get an upgrade IMO with our current cap situation. If these moves don't happen, I genuinely think we could be worse than we are now. Which, would be a saving grace in my opinion. BC will be gone and we can be done with these make-shift trades.

    Now, after my rant of negativity, I will still be a Raptor fan and hope I'm COMPLETELY off. I REALLY hope I'm wrong. I want this Raptor team to succeed SO bad.
    You get a lottery pick & his contract is off the books in a year.

  14. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by magikmc View Post
    I'm not trying to be a dick, but you're speaking as if you know what is going to happen. My first four points, as of right now, are facts. While, you are SUGGESTING that other moves are going to be made. What moves are we going to make is my question? How can depth at the big position be EASILY addressed. Amir is our only sure thing at that position right now. And he is hugely foul prone. I'm not sure how you can make the statement that Val and Ed were not going to work together with so much confidence. We have seen nothing of Val yet. We have seen continuous improvement in Ed. They are two young promising players. There is no reason to say "it couldn't work" on such a small sample size with two players that have loads of potential. I'm not so sure about the offensive rebounding. For his career he has averaged 2.3/game which would be good for 12th in the league. That's while playing 24 mins per game. Regardless I'm not going to get in an argument about the potential here. Based on the basketball, we have a terrible 3-point shooting team and a team that won't be very good in the paint. We don't get better defensively by removing davis and adding Gay either.

    So what if this doesn't work with Gay? Then he's an expiring after two years, not a short period of time and Val and Ross MAY be coming into their own. We are going to be right back where we are now, or possibly worse. Then it will be back to; do we rebuild, continue with mediocrity, etc. etc. Even if Gay turns out to be great, I don't see how the supporting cast is good enough. Then that leaves us with no way to acquire high drafts picks because we are in the middle of the pack. This move does nothing to envelope a plan towards the future nor make us competitive now.

    This is the entire problem. We need to develop a team where players DO want to come here. You know why we don't develop that? Because we don't have a winning culture. The notion that players don't want to play here because of it being in Canada or whatever else is ridiculous. Don't you think everyone wants to play in OKC now? Of course, because they have a winning team. Athletes like to win.

    Why are you so sure that Gay is about to explode? That's what Memphis was feeling season after season, and it never happened. He's in his prime right at this moment and having the worst season of his career. He's not going to learn how to play defense all of a sudden. He won't get better at 3's. Where is he going to improve?

    Lowry has shown nothing to make me confident in his future as a POINT GUARD. We are something like 2-20 with him starting, and he hasn't shown an ability to be a playmaker. I don't even think we have a passer on the roster now. Anderson might be the best and he's not guaranteed to be around. Additionally, Lowry has not shown he's able to stay healthy. We just put all our eggs in one basket that isn't padded.

    People are posting as if there are some major moves to come. There may be some MINOR moves to be had, but we simply don't have enough to get an upgrade IMO with our current cap situation. If these moves don't happen, I genuinely think we could be worse than we are now. Which, would be a saving grace in my opinion. BC will be gone and we can be done with these make-shift trades.

    Now, after my rant of negativity, I will still be a Raptor fan and hope I'm COMPLETELY off. I REALLY hope I'm wrong. I want this Raptor team to succeed SO bad.
    Pretty much agree with all of that.

  15. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddler The Gr8 View Post
    I don't like the trade or hate it because it'll end up being lateral IMO. I don't think it improves the team that much and Gay is overrated and isn't as good as people think. People watch highlights of his dunks and couple of game winners and think he's a star when he isn't. That being said hopefully he can blossom here and become the star he was expected to be coming out of college.

    I just don't think the pieces match up or compliment each other well. Lowry, DD, Gay backcourt has the makings of a ball-stopping, isolation chuckfest. Maybe Gay and Lowry have chemistry since they're suddenly boyfriends according to all the reports of their relationship. I really hope this improves the team but I doubt it. I see us being a mediocre 8-10 seed year-in, year-out like we were when Rupaul was here, and kinda like what Milwaukee has been the past 5 years
    I wonder if people realize that next season will be his 8th year in the league. I don't see a break out happening all of a sudden.

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