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  1. #91
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    Disagree. It might take a body of work to become elite, but once elite, you don't just stop being elite because life, or the game takes it's toll on your body. You earned the accolade, you might not play to it's highest degree til the day you leave the sport, but to me elite isn't how you are playing right now, it's who you are as a player in all aspects, overall. You can't be elite today, then tomorrow you aren't then the next you are again. Rice wasn't not elite when he was a Raider, and Montana wasn't less elite when he was a Chief. He may not play at an elite level per say, but a player doesn't become less great because they age. You solidify your peak in your legacy at some point in your career, just because you don't sustain it throughout doesn't invalidate your greatness all of a sudden.

    Otherwise you are just using elite to describe a current level of play. You would be the first person I have ever encountered that uses that interesting yet absurd definition.

    Elite, is different than "playing at an elite level". The latter suggests that the players level of play will regress. The former suggests enough consistency that it became that high standard and expectation.
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  2. #92
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    Elite QB is a new term used now in the pass happy NFL, the QBs that have gaudy numbers an such....Ill like the winning and clutch QBs myself!

  3. #93
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    Rodgers, then Brady, then Peyton, Brees (excuse my while I throw up mentioning him)

    L.A. Angels/ Atlanta Falcons/ Anaheim Ducks/ L.A. Clippers

  4. 01-31-2013, 02:06 PM
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  5. #94
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    This question is going to have so many different answers and will be debated for a long time. Its so difficult to say. There are so many ways to rate a quarterback.

    First way to rate them is their talent level. No doubt that Peyton, Brady, and Rodgers top the list in that category. So if you could start your team with any QB, it seems logical to choose one of those 3. But then you have to consider other things. Peyton is a hell of a QB. He has his team contending for a Super Bowl every year. But its hard to deny that he is a bit of a choker. When playoff time comes around, he just isn't the same guy.

    So should you really choose Peyton? As good as he is in the regular season, wouldn't you rather have a guy who is still really good, but performs his best in the biggest games? Take Eli for example. Ask anyone which Manning do you take, and they say Peyton. But I find it hard to believe that Peyton will bring a franchise more Super Bowls than Eli. Eli may be inconsistent. His team may miss the playoffs sometimes. People may hate on him and say he isnt elite. But do you really see Eli ending his career with just 2 Super Bowls? He has atleast 5 more good years. I can't imagine he doesn't take the Giants on one more of those incredible runs. If he is able to win another ring, it would be really hard for me to take Peyton over Eli despite that fact that Peyton is more talented.





    Here are the QBs that I rank as elite right now.
    Brady
    Peyton
    Rodgers
    Brees
    Big Ben
    Eli.

    Flacco or Kaepernick will be added to that list at the conclusion of the Super Bowl and will both have that title one day.

    Matt Ryan, Russell Wilson, RG3, and Andrew Luck will also be on that list one day.


    Elite has to be a combination of talent and mental toughness. Romo, Rivers, Stafford, Newton, and Freeman all have the elite talent. But their mentality will hold them back. Romo is an unbelievable talent. But he chokes. When the season (and his reputation as a QB) is on the line he falls apart. Even though I'm a Skins fan, I feel sorry for the guy because he has the talent to carry his team to multiple Super Bowls. Honestly if he got over the hump won some Super Bowls and lost the mentality that holds him back, then he would rank up there with Peyton, Rodgers, and Brady. Cam Newton is just too ****ing selfish. He cares about himself not the team. I really dislike him. His selfish ***** of an attitude will hold him back; kind of like Dwight Howard. Phillip Rivers can sling it. He is a great talent. But the dude just doesnt win big games. I like the dude but you cant rank him elite.



    I could go on, but its really hard to state your very extended and detailed opinion in writing.

  6. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by hail2skins4life View Post
    This question is going to have so many different answers and will be debated for a long time. Its so difficult to say. There are so many ways to rate a quarterback.

    First way to rate them is their talent level. No doubt that Peyton, Brady, and Rodgers top the list in that category. So if you could start your team with any QB, it seems logical to choose one of those 3. But then you have to consider other things. Peyton is a hell of a QB. He has his team contending for a Super Bowl every year. But its hard to deny that he is a bit of a choker. When playoff time comes around, he just isn't the same guy.

    So should you really choose Peyton? As good as he is in the regular season, wouldn't you rather have a guy who is still really good, but performs his best in the biggest games? Take Eli for example. Ask anyone which Manning do you take, and they say Peyton. But I find it hard to believe that Peyton will bring a franchise more Super Bowls than Eli. Eli may be inconsistent. His team may miss the playoffs sometimes. People may hate on him and say he isnt elite. But do you really see Eli ending his career with just 2 Super Bowls? He has atleast 5 more good years. I can't imagine he doesn't take the Giants on one more of those incredible runs. If he is able to win another ring, it would be really hard for me to take Peyton over Eli despite that fact that Peyton is more talented.





    Here are the QBs that I rank as elite right now.
    Brady
    Peyton
    Rodgers
    Brees
    Big Ben
    Eli.

    Flacco or Kaepernick will be added to that list at the conclusion of the Super Bowl and will both have that title one day.

    Matt Ryan, Russell Wilson, RG3, and Andrew Luck will also be on that list one day.


    Elite has to be a combination of talent and mental toughness. Romo, Rivers, Stafford, Newton, and Freeman all have the elite talent. But their mentality will hold them back. Romo is an unbelievable talent. But he chokes. When the season (and his reputation as a QB) is on the line he falls apart. Even though I'm a Skins fan, I feel sorry for the guy because he has the talent to carry his team to multiple Super Bowls. Honestly if he got over the hump won some Super Bowls and lost the mentality that holds him back, then he would rank up there with Peyton, Rodgers, and Brady. Cam Newton is just too ****ing selfish. He cares about himself not the team. I really dislike him. His selfish ***** of an attitude will hold him back; kind of like Dwight Howard. Phillip Rivers can sling it. He is a great talent. But the dude just doesnt win big games. I like the dude but you cant rank him elite.



    I could go on, but its really hard to state your very extended and detailed opinion in writing.
    the fatc that you would even consider adding a guy who's played 9 games or a guy who's been mostly average his career shows how stupid that logic for elite is, as well as the fact that your definition of elite is close to encompassing a 3rd of the leagues starters
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  7. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYSPORTS98 View Post
    I'll respond to myself as Superbowl MVP's earned for last minute drives in the bowl over Tom Brady don't count. Neither does an absolute beating against the 49ers in which Eli hung in there while many fantasy elite have coward under the same circumstances.

    Oh, and it's funny how so many don't realize the Giants roster isn't that great yet they haven't had a losing record since Eli was drafted. They also missed the playoffs at 10-6 (not that it matters in the fantasy world where the season ends week 17)
    And one of those drives he relied on miracle catches. In reality he didnt play well on that drive. Was constantly over or under throwing guys. But because they won Giants fans ignore that. Like the catch that set up the 4th and 1 early in the drive.

    And whats it matter what their record was? They missed the playoffs. Maybe if eli played better they would have won 11 games. Of course it didnt help eli threw 25 int that season, 13 in the losses alone(4vs philly who they lost the division to). Which speaking of Philly. Always funny how the lost is blamed on the punt return. But what about mr clutch going 0-3 and being sacked on 3rd down leading to the punt? And of course theres the fact elis int led to a Philly fg.

  8. #97
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    "Elite" means "the very best of a group or category." Period. THat's what it means.

    By that definition, there are 4 QBs in the NFL who are clearly better than everyone else since 2009.

    Rodgers -- 108.7 QBR (1st) / 7.90 ANY/A (1st) / 699.4 EPA (3rd/ 4th with 2011 removed)
    Brady -- 102.5 QBR (2nd) / 7.82 ANY/A (2nd) / 708.1 EPA (1st/ 1st with 2011 removed)
    Manning -- 98.8 QBR (4th) / 7.25 ANY/A (4th) / 494.7 EPA (2nd with 2011 removed)
    Brees -- 101.4 QBR (3rd) / 7.38 ANY/A (3rd) / 702.2 EPA (2nd / 3rd with 2011 removed)

    No one else even comes close. And for those who want to remove Brees for his INTs, you just can't do it, for 2 reasons:

    (1) His INT% is 2.6, which is above average
    (2) Even with his INTs, he's still right on par with every other elite QB. He makes up for those INTs.
    (3) He has thrown more TDs than anyone in the last 5 years, leading the league in 4 of those 5 years, and he is second in TD%, so you can't use "he throws too much".

  9. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoUseForAName View Post
    And one of those drives he relied on miracle catches. In reality he didnt play well on that drive. Was constantly over or under throwing guys. But because they won Giants fans ignore that. Like the catch that set up the 4th and 1 early in the drive.

    And whats it matter what their record was? They missed the playoffs. Maybe if eli played better they would have won 11 games. Of course it didnt help eli threw 25 int that season, 13 in the losses alone(4vs philly who they lost the division to). Which speaking of Philly. Always funny how the lost is blamed on the punt return. But what about mr clutch going 0-3 and being sacked on 3rd down leading to the punt? And of course theres the fact elis int led to a Philly fg.
    This.

  10. #99
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    anyone who put Eli in their list for "elite" must have completely ignored this whole season. he is NOT elite. he is a horrible man with a permanent sadface and ruined my fantasy team! elite = consistency. Eli is NOT consistent he is as random as a terrets syndrome patient.

  11. #100
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    I was debating whether Big Ben would fit into this category. Then I thought if I have to add him, ELIte would have to be added, since they performed similarly in their 2 respective Super Bowl runs. But the Elite would be Rodgers, Brady, Peyton. The maybelite would be Brees. The next tier is Eli and Ben.

  12. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoUseForAName View Post
    And one of those drives he relied on miracle catches. In reality he didnt play well on that drive. Was constantly over or under throwing guys. But because they won Giants fans ignore that. Like the catch that set up the 4th and 1 early in the drive.

    And whats it matter what their record was? They missed the playoffs. Maybe if eli played better they would have won 11 games. Of course it didnt help eli threw 25 int that season, 13 in the losses alone(4vs philly who they lost the division to). Which speaking of Philly. Always funny how the lost is blamed on the punt return. But what about mr clutch going 0-3 and being sacked on 3rd down leading to the punt? And of course theres the fact elis int led to a Philly fg.


    Maybe if I fill in all the missing blanks for you . . . Doubt you would understand. Love the miracle catch comment as any competent receiver would have caught it with two hands. Not to mention, his broken pattern a play before and right after that play. Gotta love the Internet lol
    Done - thank goodness

  13. #102
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    I'm not really into the whole elite QB idea but I have my own sort of way of ranking the QBs.

    Group 1: Brady, Rodgers, P Manning, E Manning, Brees, Roethlisberger, Ryan
    - This is my top group because I believe these QBs are all good enough to hide flaws within thier team and make them super bowl contenders. Roethlisberger "hides" the Steelers horrible oline and Brady "hides" the Pats lousy D. If I were to pick elite QBs it would be the best of this group (the best of this group, not the entire group).

    Group 2: Kaepernick, Griffin, Luck, Wilson, Newton, Dalton
    - I consider these the "young" QBs who have shown enough to make me believe that one day they could belong in group number one.

    Group 3: Flacco, Rivers, Romo, Vick, Cutler, Stafford, Schaub, A Smith
    - I see these guys as solid QBs but in order for their team to be a true contender it needs to be solid all around. None of these guys are able to hide a glaring weakness but they are still talented enough to be the QB for a good NFL team.

    Group 4: Tannehill, Bradford, Freeman
    - I think those are 3 young QBs who have shown enough that their teams need to stick with them but not enough yet where we can expect them to be successful going forward.

    Group 5: Sanchez, Palmer, Fitzpatrick
    - These are the veteran QBs I see as one step below Group 3. They aren't horrible QBs and they are probably good enough to be starters somewhere but can probably only be the QB of a good team if they are the biggest weakness the team has.

    Group 6: Cassell, Kobb, Henne, Quinn, Hasselbeck
    - These are veteran players who I don't see as starter material.

    Group 7: Weeden, Ponder, Locker, Gabbert, Foles, Skelton, Lindley
    - These are young QBs who I think are probably out of or running out of time with their current team. Some will stick by them and it wouldn't surprise me if 1 or 2 of them are still successfuly but time is winding down for them.

    I believe I got all 39 QBs who threw at least 100 passes last year.

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  14. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by MagicHero3 View Post
    anyone who put Eli in their list for "elite" must have completely ignored this whole season. he is NOT elite. he is a horrible man with a permanent sadface and ruined my fantasy team! elite = consistency. Eli is NOT consistent he is as random as a terrets syndrome patient.

    No question the fantasy fans agree with you.
    Done - thank goodness

  15. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYSPORTS98 View Post
    No question the fantasy fans agree with you.
    even from a non-fantasy perspective, hes not elite.

  16. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by jayjay33 View Post
    I would say top 5. Elite is a relative term. if their are around 100 qb's in the NFL and your 1 of the top 5 or so then that is elite.
    Well said Jay
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