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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halladay View Post
    Button is the shock rock of the hockey world. He does it to gain attention, and it works. As far as Jones goes, if the guy is this big,mobile,strong etc at this age, imagine him when he's 23 or 24. We may be talking about a 6'7 or 6'8 dman who can do it all. Potentially a better version of Tyler Myers or Zdeno Chara type of impact. I don't think he's exactly like either guy but how many guys of that size can you really think of who are mobile,have hands etc?
    That's why he is a lock to go #1 IMO, unless the Phoenix Coyotes have the first pick (they are stacked on D) then you have to take Jones, especially because how much better he is than the rest of the D men in this draft and the other talent is pretty darn good.


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  2. #47
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    Nobody's locked in for the rest of the season. That order will change two or three times from 1-7 probably. Jones and MacKinnon with my bet stay 1/2. As much as I love Drouin I can't see him cracking the top 2. He's amazing but it's obvious after you watch 1/2 a dozen games or so that MacKinnon is the better of the two. They both kind of take turns taking their line by the neck when 1 has an off night. Usually 1 of them doesn't have an off night tho.

  3. #48
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    Would any Leafs fans do a deal around Fleury+ for Kessel and Reimer? Since this deal would happen around the draft, I'll put it here.

    I got that idea a few days ago. It lets Vokoun be the starter for this year and next, and while that is happening, he is mentoring Reimer. Then, when TV leaves, Reimer will take over the starters role. And Kessel is obvious.

    On the Leafs, they get an established #1 goalie, which are hard to find in today's free agent pool and various other pieces (Sutter?). Would that work? And I'd be willing to replace Kessel with JVR, I love how he plays.

  4. #49
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    You guys want to pawn Fleury off to us because you're disapointed in his play. Goaltending hasn't been much of a problem yet this year for us. Reimer's not spectacular but he's been atleast a bit consistant and that makes a world of difference. Not a trade we need to look at yet or think about. We're 4-3 in a shortened season and Kessel hasn't even scored yet.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingerSox View Post
    You guys want to pawn Fleury off to us because you're disapointed in his play. Goaltending hasn't been much of a problem yet this year for us. Reimer's not spectacular but he's been atleast a bit consistant and that makes a world of difference. Not a trade we need to look at yet or think about. We're 4-3 in a shortened season and Kessel hasn't even scored yet.
    The sad thing is that is true, but only to a certain extent. Vokoun took Fleury's starting job (or at least he should have by now), and $5 million per season is too much for a backup. I can see what you are saying though.

  6. #51
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    Yeah I haven't been a fan of Fleury's game for about 2 years.

  7. #52
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    I'm not sure Fleury even has much more value than Reimer to be honest. Meanwhile, putting Kessel in the deal too. Not a big fan of Fleury. He's had some good years but he's a guy who leaves a lot to be desired. The fact that he was drafted first overall still blows me away.

  8. #53
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    No to Kessel for Fluery

    But we are still awaiting that deal we agreed to... where's my Maatta bro?

    JVR has been on fire over here if we traded him for anything i would be pretty sad, i've grown attached to the guy.


    Also Kessel looks like he's warming up to the media here, he was joking with the media yesterday and despite his frustration on the ice he looked pretty happy. He said as long as the team is winning it doesn't matter whether he scores or not. Might be turning the corner as a team player, and a day after Carlyle was singing his praises as a two-way player. Hope an extension gets done.

  9. #54
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    I never understand why Carlyle and even at times Ron Wilson and Burke have praised Kessel for being a complete player. He is not and never will be a complete player. He shies away from the boards, he lets guys go into the corner to get pucks ahead of him when he has a step or two on them. I mean he skates back to the defensive zone.. but everyone does. You won't catch him blocking a shot unless he can't get out of the way o one. I guess you can't say he's not great defensively out loud in the media but calling him something he's not is pretty dumb. IMO you watch the Leafs play and he's our weakest player away from the puck. I'm not calling him horrible away from the puck but he is far from good.

    That's about as weird a thing I heard come out of a coach's mouth since last season when Ron Wilson said Phaneuf was the best D in the league by a "country mile".

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by OptiMized View Post
    No to Kessel for Fluery

    But we are still awaiting that deal we agreed to... where's my Maatta bro?

    JVR has been on fire over here if we traded him for anything i would be pretty sad, i've grown attached to the guy.


    Also Kessel looks like he's warming up to the media here, he was joking with the media yesterday and despite his frustration on the ice he looked pretty happy. He said as long as the team is winning it doesn't matter whether he scores or not. Might be turning the corner as a team player, and a day after Carlyle was singing his praises as a two-way player. Hope an extension gets done.
    I want Kulimen also, time to take Shero and Nonis hostage! (joking)

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingerSox View Post
    I never understand why Carlyle and even at times Ron Wilson and Burke have praised Kessel for being a complete player. He is not and never will be a complete player. He shies away from the boards, he lets guys go into the corner to get pucks ahead of him when he has a step or two on them. I mean he skates back to the defensive zone.. but everyone does. You won't catch him blocking a shot unless he can't get out of the way o one. I guess you can't say he's not great defensively out loud in the media but calling him something he's not is pretty dumb. IMO you watch the Leafs play and he's our weakest player away from the puck. I'm not calling him horrible away from the puck but he is far from good.

    That's about as weird a thing I heard come out of a coach's mouth since last season when Ron Wilson said Phaneuf was the best D in the league by a "country mile".
    Kessel isn't a complete player. BUT I think we're too quick to judge on whether he can improve.For some reason, Kessel is set in stone as a one-dimensional sniper but it seems like every other young player can improve. The guy gets way too much flak for a top 10 point producer.

  12. #57
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    Kessell is actually better defensively than people give him credit for. He clears the puck out of the zone really well, and he is good at sealing off his defenseman.

    If you pay attention, you don't get too many shots from Kessel's point man. Part of that is because their afraid of his speed beating them but he positions himself very well.

    Is he a guy who mucks it up in the corner? No. But he does a pretty good job considering his somewhat limited responsibilities as a winger. He also doesn't take shifts off defensively nearly as much (I don't remember too many actually) as some of the other stars on the wing on other teams.

  13. #58
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    Fleury's play has been spiraling downwards ever since those god awful playoffs against the Flyers.
    He looks shaky out there more times than not and does not look like an elite goaltender anymore.

    Right now Reimer actually looks fine. And for the record I hope Vokoun gets more starts in Pittsburgh because I claimed him off waivers yesterday in my fantasy league. I need some W's.


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  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrice9 View Post
    Kessell is actually better defensively than people give him credit for. He clears the puck out of the zone really well, and he is good at sealing off his defenseman.

    If you pay attention, you don't get too many shots from Kessel's point man. Part of that is because their afraid of his speed beating them but he positions himself very well.

    Is he a guy who mucks it up in the corner? No. But he does a pretty good job considering his somewhat limited responsibilities as a winger. He also doesn't take shifts off defensively nearly as much (I don't remember too many actually) as some of the other stars on the wing on other teams.

    This year he's looked better. Before Kessel has been brutal defensively. One half of a year doesn't mean he's a better defensive player then he was before, because under Wilson Kessel was invisible in the defensive zone.

    In saying that, Carlyle has him forchecking a lot more, and it's payed off.


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  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by LuckyLuke2 View Post
    This year he's looked better. Before Kessel has been brutal defensively. One half of a year doesn't mean he's a better defensive player then he was before, because under Wilson Kessel was invisible in the defensive zone.

    In saying that, Carlyle has him forchecking a lot more, and it's payed off.
    This actually isn't really true. I only stared watching it last year when people were ripping on him. He's not a physical player but he does follow his positional roles. The advanced defensive metrics agree with me as well (not the end all be all). People have an idea what defensive hockey should like and efficiency and hidden things are part of that but not recognized. Being a big hitter doesn't make you a good defender.

    Forechecking also isn't part of defense, back checking is but thats note ven really what a winger does that much (Backchecking the corners).

    Also, I'm not completely sure you want a player like Kesell mixing it up too much in the corners. Its not really his game and it diminishes his offensive opportunities in space and risks injury.

    He has to find a middle ground.

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