Hines Ward vs. Donald Driver

[j11430]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't Ward been a slot for the majority of his career?

I like him better regardless, but I heard that somewhere and don't remember where

[ring91013144043]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't Ward been a slot for the majority of his career?

I like him better regardless, but I heard that somewhere and don't remember where

You can see people say "Wes Welker is a slot receiver so he doesn't compare to Calvin Johnson, Andre Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald even though his stats are close," but that's not an issue of slot receiver vs outside receiver, that's an issue of just looking at stats and not being able to discuss how the stats were attributed.

Edit: I took out some ridiculously homerific things I said. Players like Ward, Roethlisberger, Troy Polamalu, even James Harrison and Rashard Mendenhall for the past couple years and whichever team he ends up with in the future, their talent and impact can't be measured in pure stats. Same should be said with all players but for some reason, when those guys are compared to others, pure stats are used as the be all end all.

[subroc]

...This is not a knock on Driver at all, but people need to stop looking at Ward's pure receiving stats as a means of evaluating him.

...when those guys are compared to others, pure stats are used as the be all end all.

I don't believe that is true. I believe they are the basis for beginning a debate or discussion though. If a guy had 3000 yards receiving over 8 years and another guy has 10,000 yards receiving over 11 years, there really isn't a debate worth expanding on. It is pretty simple. But, in this case they are a couple of close players and this is a discussion worth having (assuming you want to participate) and other factors being brought into the discussion.

[ring91013144043]

I don't believe that is true. I believe they are the basis for beginning a debate or discussion though. If a guy had 3000 yards receiving over 8 years and another guy has 10,000 yards receiving over 11 years, there really isn't a debate worth expanding on. It is pretty simple. But, in this case they are a couple of close players and this is a discussion worth having (assuming you want to participate) and other factors being brought into the discussion.

You just explained an incredibly obvious concept that everyone knows and understands and does not require any sort of explanation. When I say that people use pure receiving stats to compare players, it's implied that the players are generally close. How often do you see a comparison with such a drastic difference as 3,000 yards in 8 years versus 10,000 yards in 11 years? Yeah, I don't see that very often either. Whenever two players are compared, they are close to each other to the point where just using each player's individual stats doesn't mean anything. It's implied, everyone knows this.

What I'm talking about is your post with Ward's and Driver's year by year stats, and the OP comparing their career stats. Just their individual stats, which don't include the fact that Driver went from Brett Favre to Aaron Rodgers, while Ward went from Kordell Stewart to Mike Tomczak to Kent Graham then back to Kordell Stewart to Tommy Maddox to Ben Roethlisberger, who didn't become a very good passer until 2007 and then a great passer in 2009. And many, many more factors that go beyond their pure individual receiving stats. So far the only posts in this thread have been "It's definitely Ward, better receiver and he blocks" or you and the OP saying "It's close, here are their individual stats," as far as comparing them goes.

[subroc]

...which don't include the fact that Driver went from Brett Favre to Aaron Rodgers...

I believe I implied that in my first post (post # 13), the one that included the stats.

[ring91013144043]

I believe I implied that in my first post (post # 13), the one that included the stats.

I'm impressed and surprised by you. Well done. Now could you start responding to all I say, or are you going to continue to pick and choose and take teeny sentences from my posts and ignore the true meat of them?

[iam brett favre]

I'm gonna say DD. For no reason other than I love him.

[j11430]

You can see people say "Wes Welker is a slot receiver so he doesn't compare to Calvin Johnson, Andre Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald even though his stats are close," but that's not an issue of slot receiver vs outside receiver, that's an issue of just looking at stats and not being able to discuss how the stats were attributed.

Edit: I took out some ridiculously homerific things I said. Players like Ward, Roethlisberger, Troy Polamalu, even James Harrison and Rashard Mendenhall for the past couple years and whichever team he ends up with in the future, their talent and impact can't be measured in pure stats. Same should be said with all players but for some reason, when those guys are compared to others, pure stats are used as the be all end all.

I wasn't trying to take away from him or say that they can't be compared. I just didn't know if he was or was not predominantly a slot receiver. Thought I agree with every thing you said here.

[ring91013144043]

I wasn't trying to take away from him or say that they can't be compared. I just didn't know if he was or was not predominantly a slot receiver. Thought I agree with every thing you said here.

Yeah I did come across as a bit too defensive, sorry about that. The overly homerific thing I posted was that Ward was a slot receiver in the sense that Joe Montana was a quarterback. Ward was one of the greatest slot receivers ever and predominantly played there mostly because it fit his skill set. He was never the biggest or fastest but he was smart and could find the open zones. But it was also because that was the only thing the quarterbacks he had could throw.

[Pinstripe power]

hines ward also will be appearing on the walking dead. thats counts for something right?

[j11430]

Yeah I did come across as a bit too defensive, sorry about that. The overly homerific thing I posted was that Ward was a slot receiver in the sense that Joe Montana was a quarterback. Ward was one of the greatest slot receivers ever and predominantly played there mostly because it fit his skill set. He was never the biggest or fastest but he was smart and could find the open zones. But it was also because that was the only thing the quarterbacks he had could throw.

No problem friend, I just don't watch the Steelers often so I didn't know for sure. He is perfect for playing slot, I feel like most undersized, athletic college quarterbacks are. You don't need to be very big or even that fast. Just quick and able to read defenses well. I see Johnny Manziel becoming a slot receiver one day honestly. But I digress.