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  1. #1
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    1994-95 Rockets Championship....wrongly clouded?

    NBA fans love to disregard Houston's back-to-back championships because of MJ's retirement in the mid 90's.

    However, MJ not only played part of the 94-95 season, he also played in the playoffs too. And he was still MJ. In 17 regular season games, he averaged 27 pts 7 rebounds 5 assists 2 steals and 1 block a game.

    And he played even better that year in the playoffs (BULLS lost 1st round to Shaq and Hardaway's Magic...who later lost to Hakeem and Clyde's Rockets in the finals).

    In that first round matchup, MJ averaged 32 pts, 7 rebounds, 5 assists, 2 steals, and 1 block per game. So it's not like he didn't show up. And Bulls fans shouldnt be able to use the excuse "but he was rusty", because he was simply on his game.

    Simply put, the Magic beat the Bulls fair and square. The Bulls did not have a center that could stop Shaq at the time. Keep in mind this Bulls team did not have Rodman yet. They gaurded Shaq with Luc Longley.

    So, against popular belief/ assumption, MJ DID play that year (albiet a little under 1/4th of the season), and he DID play VERY well in the playoffs too. The Bulls, as a team, just weren't good enough. But MJ lovers (I love his game too...but I dont' let it cloud reality) refuse to believe MJ could lose in the playoffs.

    So, is Houston's 95 championship wrongly overshadowed and "asterisked"?
    Last edited by AWC713; 01-29-2013 at 12:52 PM.

  2. #2
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    They won they earned it, but if MJ doesnt retire good chance Bulls win 8 straight


    “Just gobble, gobble, gobble, turkey from jive turkey gobblers”

  3. #3
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    its just different cause everyone knows MJ was not 100%, as crazy as it is 27 pts 7 rebounds 5 assists 2 steals and 1 block a game is not playing up to par for someone like michael jordan, itd be like if rose came back this season and if the bulls lost to the heat, everyone would know rose was not 100%, i dont think people disregard it but i mean, i think people know the bulls would have won 8 straight had jordan stayed in the league

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by miller74 View Post
    They won they earned it, but if MJ doesnt retire good chance Bulls win 8 straight
    Yup
    Quote Originally Posted by heimdog8 View Post
    I didn't want to throw this information out here. I was a 3 year varsity starter at QB in high school. I played quarterback in junior college as well. I was considering playing division 1 football as well but chose to pursue my career in business instead. However, currently I am helping train with Derek Carr from Fresno State get ready for his pro day and the draft. I am also working with Cody Kessler, the USC quarterback.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by D_Rose1118 View Post
    its just different cause everyone knows MJ was not 100%, as crazy as it is 27 pts 7 rebounds 5 assists 2 steals and 1 block a game is not playing up to par for someone like michael jordan, itd be like if rose came back this season and if the bulls lost to the heat, everyone would know rose was not 100%, i dont think people disregard it but i mean, i think people know the bulls would have won 8 straight had jordan stayed in the league
    my point is that MJ wasn't the reason they lost. In fact they were competitive becasue of him. Basketball is still a team game. The aura around MJ is that, with him, it's not so much a team game. As in: "oh they have MJ they're not gonna not win".

    But MJ isn't guarding Shaq. The Bulls realistically did not have that strong of a front court, and they got down-right abused by Shaq in that series.

    Here's Bill Simmon's take:


    The Verdict: Hold on, unpopular opinion coming … I don't love that '95 Rockets-Bulls matchup for Chicago. Their leading rebounder that year? Scottie Pippen at 5.9. (Remember, the Bulls didn't add Dennis Rodman until that summer.) Their centers that year? Luc Longley and Will Perdue. In The Playoff Series That Never Happened, everyone remembers Jordan looking rusty against the Magic; nobody remembers Shaq and Horace Grant combining for 47 points and 33 rebounds in Game 5, MJ being less rusty than you think (he averaged 31 a game in that series), or Shaq finishing with 146 points, 79 rebounds and a whopping 81 free throw attempts in six games. Were the '95 Magic too big for the '95 Bulls? Sure seems like it.

    One more thing: The '95 Rockets were better than the '94 Rockets. They basically swapped Vernon Maxwell (a lunatic) for Clyde Drexler (a future Hall of Famer), giving them a top six of Hakeem, Drexler, Horry, Sam Cassell, Kenny Smith and Mario Elie (solid on paper, right?). And that spring, they beat Stockton & Malone (still in their primes), Barkley & KJ (still in their primes), Robinson & Rodman (still in their primes) and Shaq & Penny (at their peak as a combo). Jordan's shadow looms over those two Houston titles, but if he never retired, that '95 Rockets team would have been the single toughest out of that 1991-98 run.
    Last edited by AWC713; 01-29-2013 at 01:08 PM.

  6. #6
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    LOL a good chance to win 8 straight? LMFAO yeah right

    Without Horace around to rebound, the Bulls dont win until they get Pippen.


    All that said, you cant really say MJ was MJ. That year his productive worth was essentially on par with Kobe, which may have been enough to win in the past but without Horace, they needed the efficiency of MJ of old. Shows you the different level from Kobe to MJ IMO. But yes, he played well and they most likely lose even if MJ was up to speed. Magic were just a better team
    Yo Kobe, get at me bro, we'd have a good time, man

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chronz View Post
    LOL a good chance to win 8 straight? LMFAO yeah right

    Without Horace around to rebound, the Bulls dont win until they get Pippen.


    All that said, you cant really say MJ was MJ. That year his productive worth was essentially on par with Kobe, which may have been enough to win in the past but without Horace, they needed the efficiency of MJ of old. Shows you the different level from Kobe to MJ IMO. But yes, he played well and they most likely lose even if MJ was up to speed. Magic were just a better team
    why did they sweep them easily the next year then? there is no way rodman was that huge! they won every game by double figures. rodman was a huge addition but not that huge, especially since the 96 magic had an even better shaq and penny compared to that 95 team

  8. #8
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    His regular season PERs the year before and the year after were 29.7 and 29.4. His PER during the year in question was 22.1.

    So he was very clearly rusty. That being said, that Rockets team was stacked and the Rockets were the only team MJ didn't have a winning record against so it's possible.

    Would've been a great series either way.
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    How unsurprising. Dude, give up trying to argue with valade. He cut you into little pieces, had you for breakfast, and shat you out.
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    Valade you have totally owned this thread. Well done
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by miller74 View Post
    They won they earned it, but if MJ doesnt retire good chance Bulls win 8 straight
    i'm not sure about that.without a defensive/rebounding big they fell off noticeably ,they needed that grant/rodman to advance.

    but as a note: mj wasnt mj that quarter of the year,his efficiency was awful(for him)and defense wasnt great.he clearly didnt build up his stamina or practiced enough to be anything but a shell of his usual.it was very clear watching him

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by D_Rose1118 View Post
    why did they sweep them easily the next year then?
    Because the Bulls added Rodman and the Magic played with an injured Horace Grant. Its basically a complete role reversal of the year prior.

    there is no way rodman was that huge! they won every game by double figures. rodman was a huge addition but not that huge, especially since the 96 magic had an even better shaq and penny compared to that 95 team
    The loss of Horace was HUGE.

    Put it this way, Horace Grant was so pivotal that the Bulls team that only lost like 2 more games without Michael Jordan had further degraded into a .500 caliber club without Horace.

    He was the Bosh of Orlando's big2, the emotional leader and the best glue guy in the league. We saw how Miami struggled without Bosh against inferior teams. Horace was like that only more important because of his superior production/defense.
    Yo Kobe, get at me bro, we'd have a good time, man

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by D_Rose1118 View Post
    why did they sweep them easily the next year then? there is no way rodman was that huge! they won every game by double figures. rodman was a huge addition but not that huge, especially since the 96 magic had an even better shaq and penny compared to that 95 team
    part rodman (yes he was that huge,go back and watch vid of that series),part mj coming back to dominant form.and grant was an emotional lift for them/and blow to us,that didnt carry over the next year's series
    Last edited by abe_froman; 01-29-2013 at 01:19 PM.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chronz View Post
    Because the Bulls added Rodman and the Magic played with an injured Horace Grant. Its basically a complete role reversal of the year prior.


    The loss of Horace was HUGE.

    Put it this way, Horace Grant was so pivotal that the Bulls team that only lost like 2 more games without Michael Jordan had further degraded into a .500 caliber club without Horace.

    He was the Bosh of Orlando's big2, the emotional leader and the best glue guy in the league. We saw how Miami struggled without Bosh against inferior teams. Horace was like that only more important because of his superior production/defense.
    okay so with a full season in 95 for michael jordan, who wins? magic or bulls

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by abe_froman View Post
    part rodman (yes he was that huge,go back and watch vid of that series),part mj coming back to dominant form.and grant was an emotional lift for them/and blow to us,that didnt carry over the next year's series
    Didn't they carry him out the building after they beat the Bulls? lol, he truly was more important than his already impressive stats dictate. And its very hard to carry anything over when your not healthy.

    Its funny but I think Horace Grant could have swung 2 different titles, maybe not against the Bulls but against the Pistons, he would have been a welcome replacement for Slava Medvedenko
    Yo Kobe, get at me bro, we'd have a good time, man

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by D_Rose1118 View Post
    okay so with a full season in 95 for michael jordan, who wins? magic or bulls
    Magic

    MJ may have been rusty but he was still playing at a high level, close enough to at least apoximate his peak level. Still have no answer for Shaq/Horace on the boards, hell even Penny used to abuse the Bulls in the post. The Bulls were able to beat conventional wisdom (that you need a primetime center to win) because MJ was more efficient than even the best of bigmen, but you still need someone to rebound and protect the paint. MJ cant do that.
    Yo Kobe, get at me bro, we'd have a good time, man

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chronz View Post
    Didn't they carry him out the building after they beat the Bulls? lol, he truly was more important than his already impressive stats dictate. And its very hard to carry anything over when your not healthy.

    Its funny but I think Horace Grant could have swung 2 different titles, maybe not against the Bulls but against the Pistons, he would have been a welcome replacement for Slava Medvedenko
    yes they did like he had just won them the title lol,it was awful and made bulls fans hate him more for years . his impact was big,hel people were pissed when went to the magic and sparked abit of a rivalry between the bulls and magic(why they lifted him as a hero after beating us).grant is such an underrated player

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