Shumpert or Jimmy Butler?

[jpro611]

Don't be surprised when Avery Bradley handles the PG position just for and Boston is still the mediocre team that they've been all year, maybe even a bit improved

[ChiBulls4Life]

rondo is overrated ,see what bagwell,corey or most other celtic fans say,they'll tell you the same thing.

we arent well liked because we have one of the largest regional continents(if not the largest).and yes there are many homers that spammed the general board,or where/are hyper sensitive to any perceived criticism,your right.but that exists with every fanbase.but this has nothing to do with that and "not wanting to appear as a homer,getting a knick fan to like you" is not a good reason to not say the truth.shumpert isnt a good player,is offense is just so bad,maybe he'll improve one day ut as of right now thats the truth.its his problem that he doesnt like hearing it,not ours for stating it

Fyi, i go beyond psd (which most ppl don't use) to base my judgements on fanbases. idc what a select few say or don't say, i go off of what their fan bases say in person. Same with the chicago fans, i don't use psd as my sole basis to base my analysis of them. I am making general statements, of course there are going to be a bunch of ppl in every fan base that doesn't think as highly of their player as most do. It's the same in Chicago with Rose, not everyone here thinks that highly of him.

[ChiBulls4Life]

Don't be surprised when Avery Bradley handles the PG position just for and Boston is still the mediocre team that they've been all year, maybe even a bit improved

Bradley most likely will handle the point guard situation now with Rondo out.

[jpro611]

Fyi, i go beyond psd (which most ppl don't use) to base my judgements on fanbases. idc what a select few say or don't say, i go off of what their fan bases say in person. Same with the chicago fans, i don't use psd as my sole basis to base my analysis of them. I am making general statements, of course there are going to be a bunch of ppl in every fan base that doesn't think as highly of thier player as most do. It's the same in Chicago with Rose, not everyone here thinks that highly of him.

This is such TheLegend logic... You're better than this lol

[ChiBulls4Life]

This is such TheLegend logic... You're better than this lol

It's true tho. I don't put a ton on psd (i'll admit psd is more knowledgeable as a whole) but it's not the entire fan base and there are many knowledgeable fans out there who aren't on this site.

[jpro611]

Oh, so you know that everyone else here doesn't speak to people outside of PSD except for you?

Interesting

[Ezio]

Oh, so you know that everyone else here doesn't speak to people outside of PSD except for you?

Interesting

Keyboard Warriors don't have a life outside PSD come on man.

[sager729]

Iman Shumpert IS incredibly talented. That's true. He also may or may not be as good at defense as Jimmy. I don't know, I haven't seen enough of him. But I don't need to see anything from him to know this:

He has no offensive game. None. That's not ME being unobjective, if you disagree that is your inability to be objective. Let's look at some numbers!

We all know he's been awful from the field this year, and it's a super small sample size. So I am going to use last years numbers:

40.2% from the field. That's livable if you do certain things well enough, like get to the line and hit free throws. Well, Shumpert is fine from the line, shoots about 80%. But here's the problem, he has a piss poor free throw rate. Don't confuse "free throw rate" with "free throws per game" last year his free throw rate was .20 (it's .15 this year) that is below average, league average is about .277. (Butler: 40.5/48.8, 77%/86%, .71/.43) All those are his last year/this year numbers for the various things listed. I'm sure you can place them).

Let's look at how he did from the floor then! I'll use SG league averages for this, because it's obviously very different depending on position.

At the rim he scores about 61.6% of the time and league average is about 64.3%, so we can call him average. (48.4/73.4)

From 3-9 feet he shot 22.0% league average is about 38.6% and he just didn't take many there, let's call it Small Sample Size and say he's probably average from there, because let's be honest, it's 3-9 feet and he only took .8 attempts per game. (41.7/15.4 (only .3 attempts per game)

10-15 feet: 28.1%. That is awful. The league average is 41.6% But hey, we can attribute that to small sample as well, I guess. He didn't take that many. (60%/40%)

Finally, we have 16-23 feet, Shumpert hit about 36% of the time from that distance, which is just a shade below league average. (35%/38%)

Now that we've taken a look at that, we can poke at Turnover rate, his is about 16%. League average? 10.1% (11.9/6.8)

Offensive rebounding rate? 2.8% compared to the league average of 3%. (7.3/7.9)

So ultimately, Shumpert is, in every aspect of offense, average-ish/slightly below average to bad.

Literally in every single aspect. And it can all be summed up nicely by the following number:

.485ts%. That is terrible. The league average is .53. (.526/.580)

And you really don't want to bring up this year, because he's got a .360.

So please don't tell me I'm not being objective. Compared to Shumpert, Butler is Michael Jordan offensively.

Again, this doesn't take away from the fact that Shumpert is RIDICULOUSLY talented. He's a freak of nature athlete. But right now, Jimmy Butler is his superior in every conceivable way offensively and I don't know Shumpert's rate stats defensively, but I know he has a helluva reputation, so I imagine it's at worst pretty close to a wash on that side of the ball.

Well I don't think there is really anything else to say about this matter. Close it down. Well done sir.

[Shmontaine]

shumpert's hair >>>>> butler's socks

[ChiBulls4Life]

Oh, so you know that everyone else here doesn't speak to people outside of PSD except for you?

Interesting

It's not what I"m saying at all. I'm referring to the examples he gave about Rondo being overrated that was it. I was explaining just my side of things, not attacking anyone else. Idk where you thought I was attacking you or anyone tbh.

[el hidalgo]

It's not what I"m saying at all. I'm referring to the examples he gave about Rondo being overrated that was it. I was explaining just my side of things, not attacking anyone else. Idk where you thought I was attacking you or anyone tbh.

tbh, what you posted shows your are either unintelligent or don't get basketball. you literally have nothing to back your opinion, just "idc wut you say, i have my opinion and other people share that opinion."

how are simple stats that make complete sense confusing to people?

[ChiBulls4Life]

tbh, what you posted shows your are either unintelligent or don't get basketball. you literally have nothing to back your opinion, just "idc wut you say, i have my opinion and other people share that opinion."

how are simple stats that make complete sense confusing to people?

cuz i don't base everything off of stats. Take the rondo case of being overrated by others. I admitted already that his shooting in general is subpar. But I stand with that he can get to the lane basically anytime he wants to it seems and can set up his teammates regardless the angle of his pass where only guys like nash/paul/rubio can. He's an extremely good rebounder for a guard (2nd best i think behind westbrook) and leads the league in triple doubles (5). How is that overrated? To me it isn't.

Shumpert, is a solid defender who from what I've seen can hit open shots from the perimeter. Did I ever say he's a great shooter? No. Did i say he can improve his shot and his offensive skills, yes I did. I don't think he's God awful offensively tho but never did I say he's a great shooter.

[Yunqn]

Butler but ..

Ill trade for shump .. Whose from chicago & is REALLY TOUGH..
Him & jimmy under thibs can shut down ANY team or duo..

And both have good shooting strokes to extend their range and nail 3 pointers consistently & both can put the ball on the floor and score for themselves..

Trade noah & deng for dwight and start taj and boom .. All team defense lol

[Doogolas]

Love the post Doogs, but Shumpert has, up to this point, played predominantly as a guard and is asked to do different things than Butler who has, in the same period, excelled as a winger - you can tell by glancing at any passing based metrics (AST, USG, etc.). That's not to excuse Shumpert's poor offensive production, less-than-stellar efficiency, or in any way indicative of his rebounding potential (again a factor of position as much as anything as guards are not regularly expected to crash boards).

That's why I stand behind my reasoning to question the comparison in the first place - you can either have a winger who can play some guard or a guard who can play some winger, and I'm not sure either player is suited to change roles.

I agree with most people here that if I were really pinned to a pick, I would grab Butler because an efficient winger is more important than a lock-down guard, but that's got less to do with the players than preference in role.

I very much noticed that and I agree to an extent. But there's also a reason I focused on ORB and left out defensive ones. I also still fully believe butler can be a 2 in the Afflalo mold but that remains to be seen.

Anyways I love shumpert but right now butler is a more affective player and I don't feel it'd that close. I mean, you can't really compare a Brewer to an Afflalo but I know damn well I'd rather have Afflalo. But I get what you mean about the comparison being odd because they're different styles of play.

To be clear I am using an example as best I can not saying shumpert IS Brewer, not at all.

[72 Wins]

Butler but ..

Ill trade for shump .. Whose from chicago & is REALLY TOUGH..
Him & jimmy under thibs can shut down ANY team or duo..

And both have good shooting strokes to extend their range and nail 3 pointers consistently & both can put the ball on the floor and score for themselves..

Trade noah & deng for dwight and start taj and boom .. All team defense lol