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  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by subroc View Post
    I have no problem being crazy.

    How do you know he had the "physical talent" to play in the NFL? He clearly was a physical specimen, but nothing indicates he could make the transition from college star/pro-day star/combine star to the NFL. You have zero basis for your position.


    If this is what you assert held him back, then we will never really know if he had the physical talent, what we know is he didn't take advantage of it.


    True enough, but when a player doesn't work out it is difficult to say with certainty why.
    I've heard a GM and a head coach now both say he was the highest graded player they ever had on a board.

    I'll take that as a basis and easily over you or anyone else sitting on their PC at home.

    What homie said was dead accurate.

  2. #122
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    I can't see Russell being effective for the Jets. Rex Ryan seems like he lets his players get away with not producing on the field?

    If I was Russell, I would be looking for a coaching staff and a team who won't let me get away with anything. No more being late, no breaking any kind of diet or training plans, and no more issues outside of football. And if he slipped up, the team should cut him. That's the environment I think Russell needs because from his stint with the Raiders, it looked like he left mainly because of motivation issues.

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by NormSizedMidget View Post
    I've heard a GM and a head coach now both say he was the highest graded player they ever had on a board...
    Far be it for me to argue with a board. That said, pre-draft grades are nothing more than supposition or projection. It looks like these guys got it wrong. No fault in that really. Once they arrive it is the players job to prove the projection is correct. If he doesn't, they were wrong. No more to it than that. For whatever reason he was not worthy of the first pick overall. His body of work says that categorically, regardless of what he did in elementary school, pee-wee football, high school football, college football, pro-days, at the combine or on some YouTube video.

    The draft is the ultimate line in the sand. Once crossed a player has to prove he belongs regardless of what some GM, head coach says or the past would indicate.

    Quote Originally Posted by NormSizedMidget View Post
    ...I'll take that as a basis and easily over you or anyone else sitting on their PC at home...
    I am not trying to project anything. I am stating after the fact truths.
    Bill Parcells: "You are what your record says you are."

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by subroc View Post
    Far be it for me to argue with a board. That said, pre-draft grades are nothing more than supposition or projection. It looks like these guys got it wrong. No fault in that really. Once they arrive it is the players job to prove the projection is correct. If he doesn't, they were wrong. No more to it than that. For whatever reason he was not worthy of the first pick overall. His body of work says that categorically, regardless of what he did in elementary school, pee-wee football, high school football, college football, pro-days, at the combine or on some YouTube video.

    The draft is the ultimate line in the sand. Once crossed a player has to prove he belongs regardless of what some GM, head coach says or the past would indicate.



    I am not trying to project anything. I am stating after the fact truths.
    So if Andrew Luck a 100 as a scout, he comes into camp and decides, I don't really want this. I don't love this game enough to motivate myself every single day. I want out. And he simply gives up......THAT MEANS HE DIDN'T HAVE THE PHYSICAL TALENT TO PLAY IN THE NFL?

    No, you're wrong. You're just flat out wrong. Russell HAD the physical talent. He didn't have the mental wherewithal nor the motivation to be a pro QB.

    That's stating the actual facts. You're living in a fallacy where every single one with the physical talent makes it in the NFL. That's just foolish man.


    I guess if you truly believe it wasn't the mental side, the sizzurp, the lack of motivation, inability to keep his weight down......etc. Which is what I believe, then I guess I could see your point. But you would be in a VERY small minority to believe that. A minority that 90%+++ of football watching fans would disagree with. I hardly call that facts or truths.

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by NormSizedMidget View Post
    So if Andrew Luck a 100 as a scout, he comes into camp and decides, I don't really want this. I don't love this game enough to motivate myself every single day. I want out. And he simply gives up......THAT MEANS HE DIDN'T HAVE THE PHYSICAL TALENT TO PLAY IN THE NFL?...
    No, it means we will never know.

    Quote Originally Posted by NormSizedMidget View Post
    ...No, you're wrong. You're just flat out wrong. Russell HAD the physical talent...
    You're trying to make it a fact doesn't make it one. You do not know if he had the physical talent to play at the NFL level.

    Quote Originally Posted by NormSizedMidget View Post
    ...I guess if you truly believe it wasn't the mental side, the sizzurp, the lack of motivation, inability to keep his weight down......etc. Which is what I believe, then I guess I could see your point. But you would be in a VERY small minority to believe that. A minority that 90%+++ of football watching fans would disagree with. I hardly call that facts or truths.
    What I believe is we will never know. And, I further believe anything pre-draft is immaterial to the discussion.

    Why has Danny Woodhead parlayed an UDFA signing into a 4 year career? Because he can play at an NFL level.

    Why has Wes Welker parlayed an UDFA signing into a 9 year career? Because he can play at an NFL level.

    Why did Jamarcus Russell get cut after 3 years? Because, for whatever reason, he is incapable of playing at the NFL level.
    Bill Parcells: "You are what your record says you are."

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by subroc View Post
    No, it means we will never know.



    You're trying to make it a fact doesn't make it one. You do not know if he had the physical talent to play at the NFL level.



    What I believe is we will never know. And, I further believe anything pre-draft is immaterial to the discussion.

    Why has Danny Woodhead parlayed an UDFA signing into a 4 year career? Because he can play at an NFL level.

    Why has Wes Welker parlayed an UDFA signing into a 9 year career? Because he can play at an NFL level.

    Why did Jamarcus Russell get cut after 3 years? Because, for whatever reason, he is incapable of playing at the NFL level.
    We'll never know if aliens live on Pluto. But I'm pretty ****ing sure they don't.

    I'll never know if Russell had the physical talent with 100% exact scientific certainty but based on what EXPERTS said, my eyes, what almost everyone in the world say, he did.

    No anecdotes about UDFAs prove that Russell didn't have physical talent. Physical talent is generally pretty ****ing evident. In fact your point hurts your argument. Welker and Woodhead were tiny little white guys. Maybe not super big or super fast. They weren't drafted because........drum roll.......THEY DIDN'T HAVE GREAT PHYSICAL TALENT. Russell went #1 overall! Did you actually think Welker and Woodhead are great physical talents? No. They know how to play football and have just enough talent. Russell had the talent but lacked the rest of it.

    Not to mention 99% of the time highly drafted QBs don't fail because of lack of physical talent. That's almost never the issue.

    We'll just never agree on this subroc.
    Last edited by Norm; 01-30-2013 at 03:47 PM.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by NormSizedMidget View Post
    ...We'll just never agree on this subroc.
    No need to kick the dead dog then...movin' on...
    Bill Parcells: "You are what your record says you are."

  8. #128
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    GMs, executives, and scouts had Russell incredibly highly rated pre-draft even though he didn't possess the physical talent to play in the NFL? You're wrong, subroc. Absolutely, 100% wrong.

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by subroc View Post
    No need to kick the dead dog then...movin' on...
    Fair enough. I can't lie, I'm dead on ****ing curious how you can even think that way. It's like you'd have to have Mike Tyson punch you in the face in his prime to prove you could get a black eye.

    "Well, he hasn't punched me in the face yet so I'm not sure you can prove I can get a black eye, I think that's a truth that I cannot get black eyes."

    Had to razz you a bit.

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by subroc View Post
    You say this without really knowing it. You have absolutely no idea what a motivated Russell could accomplish. You have no idea if we already saw a motivated Russell in the 2008 season and he realized he couldn't play at the NFL level and fell apart for the 2009 season! It is all just pie-in-the-sky speculation.
    i know what a motivated tebow and sanchez bring to the table, and its not hard to beat. and you arte being just as hypotheical as I am saying he just sucks. the difference is I have great pre=pay evidence backing my opinion up, all you have is subjective post pay day analysis that could go either way
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  11. #131
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    The Jets are a joke.
    Cubs and Bears

  12. #132
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    All they are is a huge media circus
    Cubs and Bears

  13. #133
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    it makes sense, the jets are like the raiders of the east.


    "If I had to pick a center [for an all-time best team], I would take Olajuwon. That leaves out Shaq, Patrick Ewing. It leaves out Wilt Chamberlain. It leaves out a lot of people. And the reason I would take Olajuwon is very simple: he is so versatile. It's not just his scoring, not just his rebounding or not just his blocked shots. He was in the top seven in steals. He always made great decisions on the court. For all facets of the game, I have to give it to him." -Michael Jordan

  14. #134
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    Too bad Physical Talent really isn't that important at the QB position.

    Decision making, accuracy, leadership, work-ethic, ability to study film, read defenses, look off receivers, run play action effectively ect. ect. ect. are all more important.
    Last edited by Patriot Pride; 01-30-2013 at 11:05 PM.

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by NormSizedMidget View Post
    So if Andrew Luck a 100 as a scout, he comes into camp and decides, I don't really want this. I don't love this game enough to motivate myself every single day. I want out. And he simply gives up......THAT MEANS HE DIDN'T HAVE THE PHYSICAL TALENT TO PLAY IN THE NFL?

    No, you're wrong. You're just flat out wrong. Russell HAD the physical talent. He didn't have the mental wherewithal nor the motivation to be a pro QB.

    That's stating the actual facts. You're living in a fallacy where every single one with the physical talent makes it in the NFL. That's just foolish man.


    I guess if you truly believe it wasn't the mental side, the sizzurp, the lack of motivation, inability to keep his weight down......etc. Which is what I believe, then I guess I could see your point. But you would be in a VERY small minority to believe that. A minority that 90%+++ of football watching fans would disagree with. I hardly call that facts or truths.
    Ryan Leaf is another example of this if he wasnt mentioned. Id love to see a motivated, in shape Russel come back and be given a chance. I think he could be solid still, he'll only be 28 at the start of the season. Doubt it happens though.

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