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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by otatop View Post
    No one is ever given an "innocent" verdict, it's always "not guilty", which isn't the same thing.
    in the eyes of the law they ceritanly are
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  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by FalconsNation02 View Post
    http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports...-2000/1566198/

    "My nephew was brutally beaten and murdered and nobody is paying for it," Baker's uncle, Greg Wilson, told USA TODAY Sports. "Everything is so fresh in our mind, it's just like it happened yesterday. We'll never forget this."

    Only Lewis pleaded guilty in relation to the case: for obstruction of justice, a misdemeanor. He originally was charged with two counts of murder but struck a deal with prosecutors in exchange for his testimony against two of his companions that night, Reginald Oakley and Joseph Sweeting.

    Lewis never directly linked his two friends to the killings, and they were acquitted. Lewis had testified that Oakley, Sweeting and another man had gone to a sporting goods store the previous day to buy knives. Baker's blood later was found in Lewis' limo. Having fled the crime scene, Lewis told the limo's passengers to "keep their mouths shut." The white suit Lewis was wearing that night — on Super Bowl Sunday — never was found.

    "I'm not trying to end my career like this," Lewis said in his hotel that night, according to the testimony of a female passenger in the limo.





    Yea... only in America this Piece of GARBAGE can not only get away with murder, but he could be glorified as a hero at the same time.
    not a single thing written there proves ray lewis killed anyone, and the fatc that it begns with a quote form a family memeber of the victim who wasnt there shows a bias
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  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randy West View Post
    You should have copied and pasted this part I mean it was all in the same article. I will take the several eyewitness's over Ray Lewis.

    Later, in his hotel room, Lewis asked Oakley what had happened. Oakley said he "was just beating him," Lewis testified. "I said this is all on me. My career is over because you guys tripping."

    Lewis admitted lying to police when they came to interview him later that day. He said he doesn't know what became of the cream-colored suit he had on that night. He left his clothes with a friend because he had to go to Hawaii to play in the Pro Bowl. Prosecutors contend the clothes and other evidence was dumped in a fast-food restaurant's trash container.

    Though several witnesses had testified that Lewis was involved in the fight, the player said yesterday: "It's something I don't do. I don't fight, period."


    http://articles.baltimoresun.com/200...akley-cognac/2
    proves he was there, doesn't prove he killed them
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  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by otatop View Post
    No, it doesn't, and that's exactly why I posted that. "Not guilty" means that a court was unable to prove your guilt, it doesn't mean you were proven innocent. In this case, his friends were found not guilty of murder, but as was posted in the OP there's no doubt that they did in fact kill in self defense.
    in court, you are eithe rguilty or not guilty. not guilty means you are innocent. its not like challenging whemn they say their isn't enoughe vidence to overturn. if you are not guilty, legally you are innocnet
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  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mudvayneowns91 View Post
    I know I throw my blood soaked clothes of murdered people in dumpsters from time to time. Nothing wrong with that.
    how does that prove he murdered someone? all it proves is he was there and tried to cover up being there
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  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinstripe power View Post
    and you have no way of knowing he did do it, but consideirng the guys who did do it were ruled innocent due to self defense, it think its safe to lean to my side. this is why i hate people like this, you are automatically guilty in the court of public opinion. think what you want about it, but no one was sent to ujail for this (not just ray) and it was ruled self defense in a drunken fight, a very reasonable expliantion.


    i really dont see how people who claim he is a murder are just as bad as people asusming he;'s not. worse even, since the law backs the people who say he was not
    Actually if you read a follow up post of mine later on in this discussion, I clearly stated that no one knows what happened there. Myself included. Way to make yourself look like an a-hole again though.

    Since we're talking about what we hate, I hate people who are naive and unable to think on their own. The facts presented in the trial do not necessarily represent all of the facts of this situation. To think otherwise is foolish. I'll reiterate, I don't know what the entire truth is, but neither do you (and I HATE people who are naive enough to think they do).

  7. #82
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    People will believe what they are going to believe...whether that belief comes from actual fact, perceived fact, or complete nonsense. Some will give Lewis a clean slate, even viewing him as a great guy for giving the families money.....others will view things completely the other way. That won't change with further discussion, but I've enjoyed getting a better sense of things by reading this thread. While I tend to lean that other direction, I do also realize (as far as his reactions to things, not my view of the initial event) Ray was in his mid-20s and newly wealthy at the time.

    One aspect of this whole thing we will never have, tho, is.....the jury acquitted these guys based on evidence found and what the defendent's said. They determined the deaths were a result of self-defense. What we will never know is whether that would still have been the case if the story were told from the other side.
    gotta love 'referential' treatment

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYNJ30 View Post
    Actually if you read a follow up post of mine later on in this discussion, I clearly stated that no one knows what happened there. Myself included. Way to make yourself look like an a-hole again though.

    Since we're talking about what we hate, I hate people who are naive and unable to think on their own. The facts presented in the trial do not necessarily represent all of the facts of this situation. To think otherwise is foolish. I'll reiterate, I don't know what the entire truth is, but neither do you (and I HATE people who are naive enough to think they do).
    the facts of the case make a pretty clear picture that a fight broke out, ray lewis was there and in self defense the two guys were killed, and after that ray lewis covered it up for whatever reason. the people that are naive are the ones saying he is a murder, despite literally no evidence proving that (even if they had the missing suit, a suit with blood on it doesn't prove murder)
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  9. #84
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    Murderer AND a cover up artist. He's a double threat.........

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinstripe power View Post
    so because two peopel got away with crimes, that means every time we think they are guilty they are? the killing was ruled self defense, this was a case of them simply getting away with it. a fight broke out, 2 people got killed while the others were defending themselves
    Like I stated before, I am just pointing out that you saying the court ruled him innocent and that it was self defense doesn't make it true

    I don't know if Ray Lewis killed anyone (neither do you) I'm simply stating that there is a chance he did..its not like he was cooperating with police right away..he lied and then later flipped

    I get the fact you are so passionate at defending him considering your a Ravens fan but the fact is no one knows what actually happened that night..unless you were there

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinstripe power View Post
    the facts of the case make a pretty clear picture that a fight broke out, ray lewis was there and in self defense the two guys were killed, and after that ray lewis covered it up for whatever reason. the people that are naive are the ones saying he is a murder, despite literally no evidence proving that (even if they had the missing suit, a suit with blood on it doesn't prove murder)
    You can't say that for sure..It could have proven murder..as someone stated before DNA, types of tears on the suit, along with a lot of other things that I'm not going to pretend to have any knowledge on because I'm not a forensics expert COULD prove or disprove murder

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYCkid12 View Post
    Like I stated before, I am just pointing out that you saying the court ruled him innocent and that it was self defense doesn't make it true

    I don't know if Ray Lewis killed anyone (neither do you) I'm simply stating that there is a chance he did..its not like he was cooperating with police right away..he lied and then later flipped

    I get the fact you are so passionate at defending him considering your a Ravens fan but the fact is no one knows what actually happened that night..unless you were there
    except almost all the evidence points to the acocunt we have now of it as true. there is no evidence at all ray killed anyone, so you can't simply say that we don't know. i have know evidence proving you ever murdered, but hey you never know right you could eaisly be a murderer.


    and it has nothign to do with being a ravens fan, i defend rothlisberger for example the same way. the court of public opinion is quick to convict, despite a lot of evidence pointing to the contrary
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  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYCkid12 View Post
    You can't say that for sure..It could have proven murder..as someone stated before DNA, types of tears on the suit, along with a lot of other things that I'm not going to pretend to have any knowledge on because I'm not a forensics expert COULD prove or disprove murder
    Just briefly reading through this, you're being insane.

    What exactly do you think Lewis did?

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYCkid12 View Post
    You can't say that for sure..It could have proven murder..as someone stated before DNA, types of tears on the suit, along with a lot of other things that I'm not going to pretend to have any knowledge on because I'm not a forensics expert COULD prove or disprove murder
    blood, dna and tears do not prove he murdered them, especially sicne we all know he was there and a fight was there. you guys say he got rid of the suit covers up murder, but he had just as much of a reaosn to cover up him just being there whether he did anything wrong or not.
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  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinstripe power View Post
    except almost all the evidence points to the acocunt we have now of it as true. there is no evidence at all ray killed anyone, so you can't simply say that we don't know. i have know evidence proving you ever murdered, but hey you never know right you could eaisly be a murderer.


    and it has nothign to do with being a ravens fan, i defend rothlisberger for example the same way. the court of public opinion is quick to convict, despite a lot of evidence pointing to the contrary
    except I was seen buying 2 knives the night before a fight in which someone was stabbed to death in "self defense"...that has to be the WEAKEST excuse I've ever heard...your an NFL linebacker, someone who is in as good as shape as you can possibly be and you couldn't grab someone push em off your friends ...give me a break

    and btw if we want to talk about the court of law...his friends did kill someone and he was covering it up for a while before deciding to flip..him being at the scene and contributing to a cover up is MURDER...they're just lucky they got off on self defense

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