Jerry needs to do this!!!!!

[blacknell]

He asked if we would sacrifice SBs for having players who are squeaky clean good guys and going winless. He then listed off a bunch of great players who are good guys and I just reminded him that is cool those guys don't get in trouble, but the ones who meet his criteria haven't won anything.

I would rather have a team and thugs and win the super bowl because if you win nobody remembers the thug part and if you choir boys and lose you will only be known for sucking and not being good guys

[baazinakon]

what's said is that if Ratliff caused an accident with the same alcohol level and or killed someone the song a few people in here are singing would be entirely different. So commit a crime just don't kill anyone in the process, so crime is now defined as whether or not you commit murder. Wake up people.

Ironically if one of your loved ones was involved in an accident by Ratliff I'm almost certain the song would also change.

So for someone to be punished it has to happen after the loss of life, yet preventing bad behavior by implementing stricter policies and rules, enforcing said rules, and having morality as guiding force lives the quality of life and the longevity of life greatly increase.

How anyone can argue that drinking and driving is acceptable is beyond me. How it's actually gotten so deeply ingrained into your minds as acceptable is incredible. Yet no one, not one single person has ever been able to prove your safer and better off when someone is drunk behind the wheel. Please feel free to prove this.

This conversation is ridiculous. Nearly 1/2 of all driving accidents included alcohol. 16,000 people are killed each year in alcohol related accidents, one person is killed every 1/2 hour due to drunk driving, Every other minute a person is seriously injured in an alcohol related crash, About two-thirds of DUI convictions are for first time offenders, More than one-third of all fatal traffic accidents involve at least one person with a BAC over 0.08%, Young legal drinkers, ages 21 to 34, are responsible for more alcohol-related fatal crashes than any other age group. The existing data confirms that drivers in this age group comprises more than half of all the impaired drivers involved in alcohol related fatal crashes. Another drunk driving statistic shows that this age group has the highest average blood alcohol concentration in fatal crashes.

Those are cold hard facts that can't be disputed. Just stop with the nonsense argument that drinking and driving is a poor judgment case. Just stop

It is a poor judgement call to get behind the wheel intoxicated? Y/N?

Brent was drunk and the accident resulted in someone's death? Y/N?

He is still a Cowboy and the organization has yet to decide on his fate with the organization? Y/N?

Brown's Familly does not want the book thrown at Brent because they also see that it was a poor judgement call? Y/N?

I don't condone drinking and driving but I understand it is a lapse in judgement. I personally don't even drink. On the rare occasion that I do, maybe three times a year tops and I don't even get wasted, I definitely get a cab or someone else to drive.

Based on how you guys feel and the questions above regarding the Cowboys organizations' stance on Brent an Ratliff, you guys should no longer be Cowboys fans.

[baazinakon]

what's said is that if Ratliff caused an accident with the same alcohol level and or killed someone the song a few people in here are singing would be entirely different. So commit a crime just don't kill anyone in the process, so crime is now defined as whether or not you commit murder. Wake up people.

Ironically if one of your loved ones was involved in an accident by Ratliff I'm almost certain the song would also change.

So for someone to be punished it has to happen after the loss of life, yet preventing bad behavior by implementing stricter policies and rules, enforcing said rules, and having morality as guiding force lives the quality of life and the longevity of life greatly increase.

How anyone can argue that drinking and driving is acceptable is beyond me. How it's actually gotten so deeply ingrained into your minds as acceptable is incredible. Yet no one, not one single person has ever been able to prove your safer and better off when someone is drunk behind the wheel. Please feel free to prove this.

This conversation is ridiculous. Nearly 1/2 of all driving accidents included alcohol. 16,000 people are killed each year in alcohol related accidents, one person is killed every 1/2 hour due to drunk driving, Every other minute a person is seriously injured in an alcohol related crash, About two-thirds of DUI convictions are for first time offenders, More than one-third of all fatal traffic accidents involve at least one person with a BAC over 0.08%, Young legal drinkers, ages 21 to 34, are responsible for more alcohol-related fatal crashes than any other age group. The existing data confirms that drivers in this age group comprises more than half of all the impaired drivers involved in alcohol related fatal crashes. Another drunk driving statistic shows that this age group has the highest average blood alcohol concentration in fatal crashes.

Those are cold hard facts that can't be disputed. Just stop with the nonsense argument that drinking and driving is a poor judgment case. Just stop

It is a poor judgement call to get behind the wheel intoxicated? Y/N?

Brent was drunk and the accident resulted in someone's death? Y/N?

He is still a Cowboy and the organization has yet to decide on his fate with the organization? Y/N?

Brown's Familly does not want the book thrown at Brent because they also see that it was a poor judgement call? Y/N?

I don't condone drinking and driving but I understand it is a lapse in judgement. I personally don't even drink. On the rare occasion that I do, maybe three times a year tops and I don't even get wasted, I definitely get a cab or someone else to drive.

Edit: Also, Ratliff did cause and accident. He was following his GPS and not paying attention, as many people do all the time. Neither Ratliff nor the driver of the 18 wheeler were injured.

Based on how you guys feel and the questions above regarding the Cowboys organizations' stance on Brent an Ratliff, you guys should no longer be Cowboys fans.

[blacknell]

1. Now when did he say Squeaky Clean?

2. You're an adult. The people who think athletes and entertainers are role models are kids.

3. Now I'm naive yet you believe acting immoral is acceptable?

I think you and Blacknell need to imagine what it would be like if you were the one hurt on the road by a drunk driver. Put yourself in those shoes, maybe put a loved one in the same shoes. I'd bet your tones would be entirely different.

You and blacknell are in the minority here. Do some research. You will find that most American's either believe the punishment is not severe enough or believe drunk driving is not acceptable. I'm not going to post the facts, the research, or the evidence because people will ignore the truth.

Did he kill or hurt anyone? If not why should I have to think about if it was me or somebody I know hurt by a drunk driver? Josh Brent is getting what he deserves because he killed a man and Ratliff didn't.

Going back to your theory on choices, that kid makes the choice to look at an athlete as a role model so therefore whatever happens to the kid is his choice. He can either chose to act like the NFL player who is a thug or he can do the opposite and be successful its his choice. A kid having a thug NFl player as a role model is no reason for the kid to act like a fool

[baazinakon]

i bet every single one of you have drank some booze and then drove home. Don't give me the bull crap and tell me your a saint and wouldn't do it becaus eits against the law. Everyone on this planet has done something against the law and nobody here is perfect or you would be GOD.

Exactly which is why I asked them not to be hypocrites.

[rawz]

Driving drunk is a serious, crime IMO. Big time no-no. does that mean, 1 year ago, if someone did it on the cowboys i thought they should be automatically cut? No. I understand. People make mistakes. Some background info is needed. Maybe a guy that just got drafted, handed millions, that is 22 years old, never been in trouble before, makes a bad choice, i can see, hey, there is still hope. punish him, and see if he can learn from it. attitude, character matter.

HOWEVER, after what has transpired on this team, the coverage it got, the consequences being that clear, there is no excuse for it now. Just 6 weeks later. and the man isnt an immature rookie. he is a 32 year old man that should know better.

People have to learn from others mistakes. They have to learn not to put themselves in that position.

Buzz driving is drunk driving. Its not a victimless crime.
and lets not pretend he was sober, and the limit "was unreasonably low" lol. he was 0.16. not buzzed, but all out drunk.
ITs not a big mystery what the consequences will be.

[blacknell]

Driving drunk is a serious, crime IMO. Big time no-no. does that mean, 1 year ago, if someone did it on the cowboys i thought they should be automatically cut? No. I understand. People make mistakes. Some background info is needed. Maybe a guy that just got drafted, handed millions, that is 22 years old, never been in trouble before, makes a bad choice, i can see, hey, there is still hope. punish him, and see if he can learn from it. attitude, character matter.

HOWEVER, after what has transpired on this team, the coverage it got, the consequences being that clear, there is no excuse for it now. Just 6 weeks later. and the man isnt an immature rookie. he is a 32 year old man that should know better.

People have to learn from others mistakes. They have to learn not to put themselves in that position.

Buzz driving is drunk driving. Its not a victimless crime.
and lets not pretend he was sober, and the limit "was unreasonably low" lol. he was 0.16. not buzzed, but all out drunk.
ITs not a big mystery what the consequences will be.

Buzz driving is still drinking and driving

[baazinakon]

1. Now when did he say Squeaky Clean?

2. You're an adult. The people who think athletes and entertainers are role models are kids.

3. Now I'm naive yet you believe acting immoral is acceptable?

I think you and Blacknell need to imagine what it would be like if you were the one hurt on the road by a drunk driver. Put yourself in those shoes, maybe put a loved one in the same shoes. I'd bet your tones would be entirely different.

You and blacknell are in the minority here. Do some research. You will find that most American's either believe the punishment is not severe enough or believe drunk driving is not acceptable. I'm not going to post the facts, the research, or the evidence because people will ignore the truth.

His posts imply squeaky clean and do no wrong types of individuals.

True, however when I was younger I never looked at athletes or other public figures as role models. I would think dang they can run fast jump high and all that. Bill Gates and Steve Jobs knows how to make money at all costs. It is up to kids and parents to filter and channel what is right and wrong, what should be admired and what should not.

I have never said it is acceptable, however I will accept some immoral actions by Cowboys players if it equals success. I will accept business owners doing immoral things to better their business. I will accept our government doing immoral things to better our Nation. So yes, don't be naive.

I cannot say what I would do or how I would feel, because thank God, I h en't had to deal with a situation like the one we are discussing. I can use Brown's Familly as an example and the way they are handling it conflicts with your argument.

[rawz]

Buzz driving is still drinking and driving

um, yes?

wow.. i think im getting through to you. good job blacknell!!!

[thedon01]

Being famous just means you provide a service to the public and have become very popular or achieved a certain role that thrusts you into the spotlight. Regardless see my post above this one that addresses public figures.

I defended why Ratliff may have believed that he was sober enough to operate a vehicle an used evidence from a professional trained to detect all signs of intoxication, which Ratliff is not. He made a mistake, hopefully now they realize any alcohol means that they should not drive. Don't cut Ratliff based on this alone. When did I say Ratliff wasn't irreplaceable? He would be a real help to our squad if healthy. Personally that's why I am more upset that he was drinkig like that. I want him to be getting his body in shape for the season and drinking a bunch of alcohol doesn't help you workout and train to get back to form.

I asked him not to be a hypocrit or stupid. Not an insult, just a reasonable request.

1. what does that have to do with the fact that the people who are seeking famous role models are children, not adults?

2. Your 32, you go out, you drink after knowing what just happened to a teammate, and then drive home. That's not a lapse of judgment or a mistake. That's trying to say "the rules don't apply to me and it won't happen to me". I know all about drinking and driving as i've stated before. 2 very close friends of mine drank and drove, but dead due to fatal road accidents. Ironically there was 5 years between the two accidents and let me tell you both were brutal. It's not a lapse of judgment or a mistake. It's believing it can't and won't happen to you, hence the rules don't apply to you.

3. You're assuming if healthy he'd still offer what he once offered 3 years ago.

4. you were insinuating he was stupid for his opinion. Come on, we both know this is true and i understand these kind of discussions can sometimes get heated and emotions flare up, trust me i've had my fair share of them.

I said get players to fill that role that those players played on the team. I was using the 90's team as a format to build a winning program, not togo sign all HOF players. I also mentioned Charles haley, Nate Newton, Ken norton, Erik Williams and non are in the HOF. We need a QB with leadership and poise to win a SB that doesn't mean we have to sign Tom Brady it means find a Qb with those traits.

1. You used the best example which happened to be an example of a dynasty to portray what we need.

2. I've been on board with wanting a different quarterback for 6 years now. preaching to the choir over here!

He asked if we would sacrifice SBs for having players who are squeaky clean good guys and going winless. He then listed off a bunch of great players who are good guys and I just reminded him that is cool those guys don't get in trouble, but the ones who meet his criteria haven't won anything.

1. When was he asked that? I can't find that in this thread. Rawz seems to believe the ends don't justify the means. He's a father BTW and obviously believes that showing the youth that you can achieve success by doing it ethically is possible and very rewarding. How or why is that wrong? Because I'm 1000% percent in agreement.

i bet every single one of you have drank some booze and then drove home. Don't give me the bull crap and tell me your a saint and wouldn't do it becaus eits against the law. Everyone on this planet has done something against the law and nobody here is perfect or you would be GOD.

And how does that imply it's ok to continue doing something wrong?

[blacknell]

Rawz shouldn't ask athletes to raise his kids, if he is a real man he does that and not depend on a 20 yr old.

[rawz]

Rawz shouldn't ask athletes to raise his kids, if he is a real man he does that and not depend on a 20 yr old.

sigh...

how do i put this.....

Based on the evidence that you have displayed, per your post(s), you have forced me to question the vadility of your statements, and further more, question your expertise on said topic. I hope you understand my stance on this matter. your welcome in advance.

[baazinakon]

1. what does that have to do with the fact that the people who are seeking famous role models are children, not adults?

2. Your 32, you go out, you drink after knowing what just happened to a teammate, and then drive home. That's not a lapse of judgment or a mistake. That's trying to say "the rules don't apply to me and it won't happen to me". I know all about drinking and driving as i've stated before. 2 very close friends of mine drank and drove, but dead due to fatal road accidents. Ironically there was 5 years between the two accidents and let me tell you both were brutal. It's not a lapse of judgment or a mistake. It's believing it can't and won't happen to you, hence the rules don't apply to you.

3. You're assuming if healthy he'd still offer what he once offered 3 years ago.

4. you were insinuating he was stupid for his opinion. Come on, we both know this is true and i understand these kind of discussions can sometimes get heated and emotions flare up, trust me i've had my fair share of them.

1. When was he asked that? I can't find that in this thread. Rawz seems to believe the ends don't justify the means. He's a father BTW and obviously believes that showing the youth that you can achieve success by doing it ethically is possible and very rewarding. How or why is that wrong? Because I'm 1000% percent in agreement.

I addressed your 1. in a previous post on this page.

Your .2 plays into what I was saying about people having to have a certain kind of mentality to succeed in sports, especially football and the NFL.

3. I was simply stating that if he were to come back and be a contributing factor to the Cowboys making it to the SB, as Stallworth was with the Patriots, I would expect that Rawz, would not be happy or celebrate making it to the SB, as the Cowboys as an organization did it, riding on the play of an individual with low moral character and a criminal, such as Ratliff.

I guess I should have left stupid out, but I was just saying that he is either being a hypocrite or stupid, in that he was unable to see or comprehend that he is being a hypocrite. Regardless, you are right and I should have left stupid out of it.

It may not have been in this thread, but he has made the statement that he would choose going winless with choir boys than winning SBs.

I believe in being ethical and teaching kids right or wrong, but I also believe in teaching them to interpret the information they get. I used Bill Gates as an example. He donates more to charities than just about anyone else in the world. He operates a legitimate company and is by all reports a good guy. He even sought out a homeless guy to try to repay him. He did and still operates his company in a vicious manner, cutting the competition and doing everything he can to prevent the competition from making moves that would threaten his company/profits. I also used President Lincoln as an example, who is regarded as being a figure head for doing what is right no matter the cost. Well he withheld information from Congress, lied to countless Congressmen and others, in addition to a host of other illegal things, for the betterment of our nation. Most very successful people have done some immoral things to get what they want or results they feel is best.

[rawz]

I addressed your 1. in a previous post on this page.

Your .2 plays into what I was saying about people having to have a certain kind of mentality to succeed in sports, especially football and the NFL.

3. I was simply stating that if he were to come back and be a contributing factor to the Cowboys making it to the SB, as Stallworth was with the Patriots, I would expect that Rawz, would not be happy or celebrate making it to the SB, as the Cowboys as an organization did it, riding on the play of an individual with low moral character and a criminal, such as Ratliff.

I guess I should have left stupid out, but I was just saying that he is either being a hypocrite or stupid, in that he was unable to see or comprehend that he is being a hypocrite. Regardless, you are right and I should have left stupid out of it.

It may not have been in this thread, but he has made the statement that he would choose going winless with choir boys than winning SBs.

really? thats what i said? choir boys? i want a team of gospel singers?

i think i said something more on the lines of,
i would rather go winless with good character, hardworking moral players, then win the superbowl with a team of drug addicts, rapist, murderers, and criminals.

does that sound a little more like what i said?

[blacknell]

really? thats what i said? choir boys? i want a team of gospel singers?

i think i said something more on the lines of,
i would rather go winless with good character, hardworking moral players, then win the superbowl with a team of drug addicts, rapist, murderers, and criminals.

does that sound a little more like what i said?

either way its stupid to want a losing team just because they good guys...I assume you hate the dynasty we had in the 90's and love the crap we put out now huh? I think you became a fan in the 90's so you wouldn't rather have a team of good ole boys that get tossed like salad in prison.