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View Poll Results: Who is the Mets #13 Prospect for 2013

Voters
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  • Daniel Muno

    0 0%
  • Matt den Dekker

    5 22.73%
  • Cory Mazzoni

    1 4.55%
  • Hansel Robles

    1 4.55%
  • Cory Vaughn

    0 0%
  • Phillip Evans

    0 0%
  • Kevin Plawecki

    1 4.55%
  • Wilfredo Tovar

    1 4.55%
  • Darrell Ceciliani

    0 0%
  • Jacob DeGrom

    5 22.73%
  • Amed Rosario

    0 0%
  • Cesar Puello

    1 4.55%
  • Aderlin Rodriguez

    4 18.18%
  • Darin Gorski

    0 0%
  • Collin McHugh

    0 0%
  • Vicente Lupo

    0 0%
  • Juan Lagares

    2 9.09%
  • Wuilmer Becerra

    0 0%
  • Jack Leathersich

    1 4.55%
  • Robert Carson

    0 0%
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Results 46 to 60 of 93
  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna28 View Post
    Similar floors, but not not ceilings. deGrom has a higher ceiling, thus he is the better prospect in my eyes.
    ...and what is DeGrom's ceiling?

    Has anybody claimed that he is a top of the rotation guy or #2 or #3 guy? So far the talk is that he could possibly start because he is a big guy who keeps his velocity up after the first couple of innings and so on. Bobby Parnell and Jeurys Familia both can do that and yet you were quick to pigeon hole Familia as a pen arm even though he has better secondaries.

    DeGrom had a very good year you know pitching in that park that you have stated many times is a huge pitchers park, can he do something more than what he did this year before we start saying he has a higher ceiling than a guy with a longer track record and similar stuff.

    As of right now DeGrom is a mystery still, he has not pitch that long since he was not a pitcher in college, he has had injuries that have cost him significant time, he has not pitch a whole season as a pro yet and pitched in a very pitching friendly league as you well know.

    He is a sleeper prospect as of now because he has a big fastball that he can command well down in the zone, but is best to wait and see what you get from him this year to really get an accurate reading of his ceiling or potential because as of now I doubt anybody knows what that ceiling truly is.

  2. #47
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    BTW Mayo had Mazzoni at #15 and DeGrom was not on his top 20.

    Baseball America had Mazzoni at #10, but after the Dickey trade you could push him to #12, DeGrom did not make the top 10.

    Sickels had Mazzoni as a C+ guu at #13 and DeGrom as a C guy right behind at #14.



    Amazin Avenue is one of the places that has Mazzoni lower at #16 and DeGrom at #12

  3. #48
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    BTW dD is a guy that deserves to be here as well given the fact that he has plus defense at center field even with his struggles at AAA he still has the potential to be very valuable even if he is just an average offensive player in the pros.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sick Of It All View Post
    BTW dD is a guy that deserves to be here as well given the fact that he has plus defense at center field even with his struggles at AAA he still has the potential to be very valuable even if he is just an average offensive player in the pros.
    I view Den Dekker is closer to 5th OF then a starting caliber OFer. 4th OF is probably most realistic, but no way do I see him becoming someone who can be a close to everyday player. Reminds me of Jason Pridie...DD is a better defender by a bit.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sick Of It All View Post
    ...and what is DeGrom's ceiling?

    Has anybody claimed that he is a top of the rotation guy or #2 or #3 guy? So far the talk is that he could possibly start because he is a big guy who keeps his velocity up after the first couple of innings and so on. Bobby Parnell and Jeurys Familia both can do that and yet you were quick to pigeon hole Familia as a pen arm even though he has better secondaries.

    DeGrom had a very good year you know pitching in that park that you have stated many times is a huge pitchers park, can he do something more than what he did this year before we start saying he has a higher ceiling than a guy with a longer track record and similar stuff.

    As of right now DeGrom is a mystery still, he has not pitch that long since he was not a pitcher in college, he has had injuries that have cost him significant time, he has not pitch a whole season as a pro yet and pitched in a very pitching friendly league as you well know.

    He is a sleeper prospect as of now because he has a big fastball that he can command well down in the zone, but is best to wait and see what you get from him this year to really get an accurate reading of his ceiling or potential because as of now I doubt anybody knows what that ceiling truly is.
    I think deGrom is another guy who could be a #3 or better starter. I like his chances to start because of his athleticism and the fact that he's relatively new to pitching, so I think his pitchability and secondaries will improve. I know he's 24, but I'd treat him more like a 21 year old for that reason.

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sick Of It All View Post
    BTW Mayo had Mazzoni at #15 and DeGrom was not on his top 20.

    Baseball America had Mazzoni at #10, but after the Dickey trade you could push him to #12, DeGrom did not make the top 10.

    Sickels had Mazzoni as a C+ guu at #13 and DeGrom as a C guy right behind at #14.


    Amazin Avenue is one of the places that has Mazzoni lower at #16 and DeGrom at #12
    And Mayo's list was probably the biggest joke I've ever seen, Mateo wasn't even on it. Toby couldn't have said it any better than this:

    The major surprises here are the inclusions of Reese Havens in the top 10 and Juan Urbina in the top 20.

    Havens, as a 25-year old hit .215/.340/.351 with 113 strikeouts in 94 games in AA. Again, he’s 25 years old and striking out a ton. I think Mayo as a whole was too high on older Mets position player prospects who just did not hit enough, including Havens, den Dekker and Vaughn.

    Urbina could not crack the Brooklyn Cyclones’ rotation, so he was sent down to Kingsport where he was bad: walking 16 batters in 12.1 innings. When I saw him in Brooklyn, his fastball was topping out at 87, and was living in the mid-80s, with a well below average breaking ball. He has not business anywhere near a team’s top-20 list.

    Jacob deGrom has earned a spot on this list because even though he’s 24, he was dominant in a-ball with a plus fastball. The last spot or two, should have gone to any one of the Mets’ good young arms including a resurgent Steven Matz, or Brooklyn’s Luis Mateo, 19-year old Gabriel Ynoa, Hansel Robles or Rainy Lara (pick your favorite).
    Also, Sickels had Mazzoni at #12 as a C+ prospect while deGrom was right behind him as a C+ prospect.

    I thought Amazin Avenue's list was great.

  7. #52
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    Key words being "you think", again as I mention, nobody has really claimed what his ceiling as of now because he is still rather unproven and a mystery and that is why he should not be ahead of a guy like Mazzoni who may very well be just a pen arm, but again he is younger, more advance and has a longer track record of doing well and has pitched at higher levels.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sick Of It All View Post
    Key words being "you think", again as I mention, nobody has really claimed what his ceiling as of now beause he is still rather unproven and a mystery and that is why he should not be ahead of a guy like Mazzoni who may very well be just a pen arm, but again he is young, more advance and has a longer track record of doing well.
    Sickels defined a #3 starter as a pitcher with a plus pitch, two average secondaries with average overall command and make-up. Would you not say that description fits deGrom very well as a ceiling?

    He has a plus fastball and a chance for two average secondaries in his slider and change.

  9. #54
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    Yet Sickels did not go and said he was a possible #3 guy did he? He said what I just said about him being a sleeper.

    As of now he has 1 plus pitch and that is it, his secondary pitches may get to be average or above average but are not as of now

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sick Of It All View Post
    Yet Sickels did not go and said he was a possible #3 guy did he? He said what I just said about him being a sleeper.

    As of now he has 1 plus pitch and that is it, his secondary pitches may get to be average or above average but are not as of now
    I don't think a #3 is his realistic outcome at all, I'm just saying his ceiling looks like that to me right now.

  11. #56
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    ...and Sickels had this to say about Mazzoni

    12) Cory Mazzoni, RHP, Grade C+: Borderline B-. Inconsistent after promotion to Double-A and long-term role is uncertain, but could be another mid/back-rotation or bullpen candidate within the next two years. Low-to-mid-90s, good slider, but splitter wasn't completely effective.
    ...so while he may end up a pen arm, some still think he can be a mid rotation guy if he reaches his ceiling, so again how is it that DeGrom has a higher ceiling?

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sick Of It All View Post
    ...and Sickels had this to say about Mazzoni

    ...so while he may end up a pen arm, some still think he can be a mid rotation guy if he reaches his ceiling, so again how is it that DeGrom has a higher ceiling?
    That's way too optimistic. There is nothing that suggests Mazzoni will be a mid-rotation starter. His K rate is low, his hit rate is high, and he does not hold his velocity deep into starts, and it's lower as a starter period.

    He's nothing more than a back-end starter, though he could be a fine reliever because he'd be able to air in out in short bursts.

    I just feel deGrom has a better chance to be an impact starter, even if he ends up as a pen arm.

  13. #58
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    ...and again is an opinion based on nothing more than what he has done over 3/4 of 1 year as a 24 year old in a very pitching friendly league, so to say he has a ceiling of a #3 is very optimistic as of now and even if that was the case it puts him in the same situation as Mazzoni, but Mazzoni again is younger more polished and pitched at higher levels.

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sick Of It All View Post
    ...and again is an opinion based on nothing more than what he has done over 3/4 of 1 year as a 24 year old in a very pitching friendly league, so to say he has a ceiling of a #3 is very optimistic as of now and even if that was the case it puts him in the same situation as Mazzoni, but Mazzoni again is younger more polished and pitched at higher levels.
    Mazzoni didn't even do anything in St. Lucie. He was very underwhelming.

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna28 View Post
    Mazzoni didn't even do anything in St. Lucie. He was very underwhelming.
    ...and yet a guy like Toby Hyde ranked him #10 in his rankings after last year and had him as a mid rotation guy as well and while he mention him as a possible pen arm, he mentions how his power slider could be a plus pitch and he also had a splitter.


    ...and the only thing you count as not doing anything is his K rates because his FIP, BB rates and HR rates were pretty damn good.

    BTW go look at a guy like Vance Worley and see what he did in AA and you will find a remarkable similarity to what Mazzoni did there this year, so there is a chance that Mazzoni does improve his K rates as he continues to mature as a pitcher and improve his other pitches and prove to be a starter and not just a pen arm.


    ...but I think the Mets untimely will move him to the pen this year because they need help there badly.

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