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  1. #1
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    Jrue. Or. Iverson. Let the thread begin..........

    I know, I know…it’s not fair to Jrue to make the early comparison. Iverson was one of the best basketball players of all time. 10 straight All Star games…carried a team of nobodies to the NBA Finals…a Hall of Famer. Once scored 60 points. (Once MADE 24 free throws in a single game. That's probably more than our whole team has made in any game this season, cumulatively.) Twice racked-up NINE steals. Even played 57 minutes once.

    Just an unbelievable player.

    Much higher B-ball IQ than people gave him credit for. A master of separation…surprise (can you say ‘stolen in-bounds’?)…and ferocity.

    But it is interesting to take a look at both and compare for other, various reasons:

    -Both were voted to the All Star game in their fourth season; (both after shortened third seasons).
    -Jrue is the only player SINCE Iverson who was capable of scoring proficiently. (In 4 of Jrue’s last 6 he’s scored more than 29 points. No one – since AI – could ever have claimed that.)
    -While Jrue will never be the scorer AI was (in one 11-year stretch, AI averaged 28.9 per game; incredible!) Jrue has already become a far better defender that AI ever was; yes, despite AI’s impressive steals totals. Last year Jrue’s defense was mediocre-to-crappy. I don’t know what he did in the off season…but man, he’s pretty damn good.
    -Jrue is productive in other ways, of course. This year he’s averaging 9 assists per game. You might be surprised to know that, despite this impressive number, AI – at this stage of his career – averaged a tiny bit higher number of career assists than does Jrue. Negligible; but surprising in that most remember AI as a gunner and now view Jrue as unselfish. Truth is - both got others involved. And neither was surrounded by great scorers.
    -Jrue shoots at a higher percentage (though it’ll be interesting to see what happens when he, too, consistently gets double-teamed).
    -There was one year in which AI shot the ball close to 2,000 times. In his early years he was always hoisting it up in the 1500 times-per-year range. I’d be willing to bet Jrue – this year – won’t exceed 1300. So he seems to be quite a bit more efficient.
    -Having said that...remember, too, AI averaged – in his FOURTEEN YEAR career – 41 minutes per game. That’s remarkable. Before this year Jrue averaged about 31.

    A long, long, long way to go…but in some ways Jrue is a better all-around player; in others he’ll never, ever, be the threat AI was.

    But they both have this in common: they are both creative, aggressive, pains-in-the-azz to defend, exciting to watch and have no conscience. They are both worth the price of admission; every penny of it.

    And that’s what it’s all about after all.

  2. #2
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    ill be honest, when i watched the game yesterday, i was just happy to see a 76er, score 35 points, he is not iversons level YET .. but i think he is the best talent we have seen SINCE IVERSON , which makes me happy

    JRUEEEEE HOLLLIDAYYYY!!!
    Eagles Did Win a Championship, it just was not the Superbowl , we beat Lombardi's Packers

  3. #3
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    Jrue is a better two way player than AI was. Meaning, a better conscious defender and scorer.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by bougiemon 7 View Post
    Jrue is a better two way player than AI was. Meaning, a better conscious defender and scorer.
    Jrue is not a better "any-type-of" scorer.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by bougiemon 7 View Post
    Jrue is a better two way player than AI was. Meaning, a better conscious defender and scorer.
    ummmmmmmm no
    Eagles Did Win a Championship, it just was not the Superbowl , we beat Lombardi's Packers

  6. #6
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    This biggest difference that sets Jrue apart from AI is something neither of them can change about their game:

    Their body and how they use it. Jrue is a bigger stronger PG than AI and uses that to get bullish about getting to his spot. Thus he creates a ton of contact. AI was a smaller speed guy who outran defenders on his way to the paint. His contact came from bigger guys trying to knock him the **** out.

    But other than their body and how they use it I do see quite a few similarities.
    Coulson Lives

  7. #7
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    people get hung up on the post larry brown iverson when discussing iverson ... especially in regards to his defense.

    while larry brown was here, AI was actually a very effective defensive player.... he was never a lock-em down type of guy, but he did play within the team concept of defense, and u could argue that the entire teams defensive philosophy was built around allen iversons ability to get steals, and theo/dikiemes ability to patrol the paint/block shots/change shots. he was an all conference defender in college.... the later years of allen iverson basically not even trying to play defense under bad coaching staffs (ayers, ford, obrien, cheeks), and lesser defensive teammates (webber, thomas, van horn, harpring, robinson, i could name AIs ****** teammates forever) caused a major drop in the defense that defined the entire sixers defense of the earlier stages of AIs career)

    when larry brown left, it was a completely different allen iverson.... jim obrien moved him to the point, which was the early stages of the end of allen iversons career (not just in philly, even though he did have a few good statistical seasons post philly).


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  8. #8
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    but on the topic of AI vs holiday....

    holiday is by far (its not even a little close) the best sixer since AI, but to put holiday anywhere near the category of an iverson is too much.

    iverson is the rarest of players, a guard u can build an entire team around (and its not his fault the sixers never gave him the offensive interior firepower he needed). holiday is not nearly the athletic superfreak that AI was.... but at the same time, holiday may have the better chance at a title since hes going to get to play with an all-star calibur center.... and hopefully this front office knows what theyre doing.


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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by BChydro86 View Post
    but on the topic of AI vs holiday....

    holiday is by far (its not even a little close) the best sixer since AI, but to put holiday anywhere near the category of an iverson is too much.

    .

    1. I think you're going a little overboard with the "not even a little close" language. Iggy was certainly "a little close" to Jrue in terms of overall player. His defense was among the elite, and his ball protection can't even be compared to Jrue's. Hell, just last year Iggy was the team's best/most consistent and it was Brand who came in second; not Jrue. So I'd respectfully ask that you tone-down the classification a notch.

    2. On the topic of this topic...I'd point out that the intent is to compare the two at this stage of their respective careers. Too early (as I clearly pointed out) to actually compare their overall careers. To do that would be unfair to anyone not in the top 35-40 players of all time. But it's intriguing to compare certain aspects of their games in their 4th seasons.

  10. #10
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    **** it lol ... Jrue is better! in EVERY WAY, he is honestly not, but im gonna get behind him, I HAVE MAN LOVE FOR JRUE ! lol
    Eagles Did Win a Championship, it just was not the Superbowl , we beat Lombardi's Packers

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by RickyPrior View Post
    1. I think you're going a little overboard with the "not even a little close" language. Iggy was certainly "a little close" to Jrue in terms of overall player. His defense was among the elite, and his ball protection can't even be compared to Jrue's. Hell, just last year Iggy was the team's best/most consistent and it was Brand who came in second; not Jrue. So I'd respectfully ask that you tone-down the classification a notch.

    2. On the topic of this topic...I'd point out that the intent is to compare the two at this stage of their respective careers. Too early (as I clearly pointed out) to actually compare their overall careers. To do that would be unfair to anyone not in the top 35-40 players of all time. But it's intriguing to compare certain aspects of their games in their 4th seasons.

    1. holiday, this season, completely blows away anything iggy ever did. ill give iggy a distant 3rd to what holiday is doing now.... iggy played with much better teammates and won a few games, made the playoffs as a result.... but individually, iggy cant compare to what holiday can do offensively.... defensively, based on position, its not that far off either. if iggy ever learned how to attack and use his athleticism for more than freakish open court dunks, then we might not even be having this conversation because hed still be a sixer and well regarded as the 3rd best 3 in the game (maybe 4th behind melo, but honestly, lebron and melo are 4s, and in 2-5 years, durant will be a 4 as well).

    2. allen iverson was much farther ahead at 22 than jrue holiday.... the league wasnt ready to make allen iverson an all-star.... once MJ wasnt a voting option, the fans put him in. allen iverson came to the league farther along than holiday is now.... he probably would have made the all-star game as a rookie/sophmore today.... especially once the hand-checking rules went away.


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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by BChydro86 View Post
    1. holiday, this season, completely blows away anything iggy ever did. ill give iggy a distant 3rd to what holiday is doing now.... iggy played with much better teammates and won a few games, made the playoffs as a result.... but individually, iggy cant compare to what holiday can do offensively.... defensively, based on position, its not that far off either. if iggy ever learned how to attack and use his athleticism for more than freakish open court dunks, then we might not even be having this conversation because hed still be a sixer and well regarded as the 3rd best 3 in the game (maybe 4th behind melo, but honestly, lebron and melo are 4s, and in 2-5 years, durant will be a 4 as well).
    "What Holiday is doing now"? You're kidding, right?

    You are comparing these last SIX GAMES to Iggy's whole career? What the ****.

    And if you are NOT...are you then referring to the recent stretch where Holiday scored 13, 15, 11? Or the other, more recent stretch when he scored 16, 15, 11, 19, 16? Or the game FIVE DAYS AGO when he scored 9 and turned it over 8?

    Look at the body of work, man. 45 games ago Iggy was our best and Jrue was our 3rd best (maybe).

    Quote Originally Posted by BChydro86 View Post
    allen iverson was much farther ahead at 22 than jrue holiday.... the league wasnt ready to make allen iverson an all-star.... once MJ wasnt a voting option, the fans put him in. allen iverson came to the league farther along than holiday is now.... he probably would have made the all-star game as a rookie/sophmore today.... especially once the hand-checking rules went away.
    While your first point was laughable...this one is by far ...uh...worse.

    So AI was "much further along" as a 22 year old SOPHOMORE than Holiday is now, as a 22 year old 4th year pro (All Star)?

    What time do you start smoking pot on Sundays?

  13. #13
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    1. im comparing iggys career in philly vs. holidays current season.... not some obscure stretch of recent games.

    2. yes, AI as a 22 year old sophmore was better, a lot better, than jrue as a 22 year old 4th year player.... ur talking about a 1st ballot hall of famer, and the best guard of an entire generation here.... its not a knock on holiday... iverson was really ****ing good.


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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by BChydro86 View Post
    1. im comparing iggys career in philly vs. holidays current season.... not some obscure stretch of recent games.
    Poppy ****.

    Not true nor fair. Jrue's 40 friggin GAMES cannot possibly "outshine" an entire 9 year career during which Iggy was the team's most consistent - and best overall - player (or whatever Iggy was here).

    You're getting a wee wittle bit carried away.

    Quote Originally Posted by BChydro86 View Post
    yes, AI as a 22 year old sophmore was better, a lot better, than jrue as a 22 year old 4th year player.... ur talking about a 1st ballot hall of famer, and the best guard of an entire generation here.... its not a knock on holiday... iverson was really ****ing good.
    But you're doing what you are not allowed to do. This isn't hard; stay with me:

    When Iverson was a sophomore...he wasn't a "1st ballot hall of famer, and the best guard of an entire generation". He was a real good sophomore. The other stuff hadn't happened, just like it hasn't had a chance TO happen to Jrue.

    We are comparing Iverson - and his accomplishments and skills - at 22 years old to...(following?)...Jrue's accomplishments and skills, at this point in his career.

    Let me know if I can be any clearer.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by RickyPrior View Post
    We are comparing Iverson - and his accomplishments and skills - at 22 years old to...(following?)...Jrue's accomplishments and skills, at this point in his career.
    AI had a longer and more illustrious college career than Jrue did. Therefore making the comparison at age is unfair to Jrue. Compare year 4 to year 4 for each player if you want to, but to do it at age isn't fair to one player over the other in regards to time in the pro's, maturity, ect.

    In year four AI was far ahead of where Jrue is in year four.

    But once again, I think a head to head comparison is like apples and oranges. They get what they do statistically in vary different ways. One is a 'big bodied' 'bully' and forces his way to his spot. The other is a smaller 'speedster' who ran past guys to his spot. Though the result is the same(ish) the process is completely different.
    Coulson Lives

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