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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lavy16 View Post
    Or maybe Gilmour was the reason teams were great...he was the heart and sole of a Leafs team that took the city by storm and almost made the Cup finals...Gilmour was a competitor...he wanted to win
    You do realize on the Flames, Gilmour wasn't their best player. They had one of the best defenseman ever in his prime. Joe Mullen had perhaps his best year (Better than Gilmour in both the regular season and the playoffs offensviely), They had Joe Nieuwendyk who was likely better than Gilmour.

    It can be reasonably argued that Gilmour was the third best player on that team, if not fourth.
    Is there a single season that Sundin had a cast close to that?


    You do realize Sundin was part of conference final teams too (2 in fact) with the Maple Leafs. Gilmour was a fantastic Leaf and his peak is sure an argument with Sundin's on the roster and he's a good debate whose the better overall player but in terms of who was a better overall Leaf, you can't take Gilmour's two great years over Sundin's entire tenure.

    And you assume Sundin didn't have a desire to win. His 15 overtime goals disagree.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingerSox View Post
    Being a fan favorite does make you great. Great in the hearts of the fan base which is the most important part. You can do a list of statistical greats and a list of fan favorite greats and the overall truth lies somewhere in the middle. Both are equally important. The Tie Domi thing... ughh.. guy played what 5 minutes a night? Not much of a Wendel Clark comparison to made there. Apples and oranges outside of the fact they both fought and threw hits.
    No being a fan favourite makes you popular not great. There's a difference. The greatest movies aren't the ones that automatically do the best at the box office.


    How about Darcy Tucker? Tucker actually has a case to be made against Clark as well. He's worse but Tucker is closer to Clark than Clark is to Sundin or Sittler

  3. #48
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    You don't give the fans enough credit. They are what matters. You're in the minority here.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingerSox View Post
    You don't give the fans enough credit. They are what matters. You're in the minority here.
    Liking players is not the same as greatness. Plenty of things are popular that are not correct .

    Joe Carter is the most beloved Blue Jay, he certainly isn't the best.

  5. #50
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  6. #51
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    Hahaha

    If you're going to start a thread like this, might I suggest laying out a definition of terms first to allow for a proper discussion. Leaving it open for interpretation leads to a 4 page argument on what the term "greatest" means. It's like a dog chasing its tail. Define the term based on the topic and there can be a decent open discussion instead of bickering like there always is.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingerSox View Post
    I guess we're talking in circles but I've yet to see how a player being loved by the fans makes him great.

    I've tried to go cross sport analogies of Carter vs Alomar for an example or even Carter vs Delgado or even give xamples within Leaf history of Eddie Shack, Tiger Williams, Tie Domi, and Darcy Tucker being far more popular than superior players like Tomas Kaberle, Borje Salming and Mats Sundin.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by TravisB View Post
    Hahaha

    If you're going to start a thread like this, might I suggest laying out a definition of terms first to allow for a proper discussion. Leaving it open for interpretation leads to a 4 page argument on what the term "greatest" means. It's like a dog chasing its tail. Define the term based on the topic and there can be a decent open discussion instead of bickering like there always is.
    I guess I thought it was obvious.

    If you were naming the greatest hockey players of all time. Wayne Gretzky, Bobby Orr and Mario Lemieux would top pretty much any list. I thought it was most impactful or best players. I thought it was fairly obvious that who the fans liked isn't really a value of greatest.

    Its like saying what's the greatest movie ever and then ranking Titanic at #1.

  9. #54
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    Well then. Putting it that way. Players like that we're impactful when they stepped on the ice regardless of the quality of opposition, made the players around them better and accomplished alot over their careers. You would also need to look at the eras they played in as well. Did they have more of an impact during the era they played in? Would they as successful now as they were then? Using Gretz, Orr etc as examples, you have to look past "fan favs" and look at their impact on the ice.

  10. #55
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    Aki Berg.
    Hockey- Toronto Maple Leafs
    Basketball- Toronto Raptors
    Baseball- Toronto Blue Jays
    Football - Philadelphia Eagles & San Diego Chargers

  11. #56
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    Joffrey Lupul.

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lavy16 View Post
    It depends how you define greatest Leaf...are we talking pure stats or are we talking who the fans like the most. Wendel Clark and Doug Gilmour are to me the greatest Leafs in my lifetime
    This! You will have to excuse most Leafs fans because if there isn't some stat that tells them who the best is then they are ****ed because they are too ****ing stupid to figure it out for themselves.
    Eat Lobster

  13. #58
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    Sundin

  14. #59
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    Christian Hanson. Eric Lindros. Michael Peca.

    Andrew Raycroft. Vesa Toskala. Jason Blake.

    Tyler Segui- woops too soon? (Jokes)


    Toronto Gyarados.
    NHL Pokemon logo's for the win.


    Blue Jays,
    Maple Leafs and Steelers fan for life.


  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by LuckyLuke2 View Post
    Christian Hanson. Eric Lindros. Michael Peca.

    Andrew Raycroft. Vesa Toskala. Jason Blake.

    Tyler Segui- woops too soon? (Jokes)
    I think it more or less belongs in the "Burn in hell, Burke" list

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