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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrice9 View Post
    Popular support doesn't make it true. By your logic Tie Domi and Tiger Williams would be top 10. People can often be dumb.

    Wendel Clark wasn't anything more than a very good player for the Leafs. He was incredibly injury prone as well (this was largely due to alot of his reckless play and fighting)
    You wonder why people argue in here with uncalled insults like that. Nobody captured the fan base like Wendel. He didn't run away and he always found his way back home.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingerSox View Post
    You wonder why people argue in here with uncalled insults like that. Nobody captured the fan base like Wendel. He didn't run away and he always found his way back home.
    I didn't say you were dumb. I wasn't even saying people who support Wendel was dumb. I was saying popular support as a method for evaluating what's true or better is not a real way because people are often dumb or wrong.

    Wendel just wasn't in the same class as guys like Keon, Sundin, Sittler, Kennedy, Connacher, Frank M, or Gilmour for his brief stop.

    I would likely say though this is pretty controversial that Kessel will pass (Assuming he signs an extension) Wendel.


    Just because Wendel stayed a long time doesn't make him the franchise's best player. If Wendel Clark who should never sniff the hall of the fame is the Leaf's greatest, we've had a horrible run as a franchise

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lavy16 View Post
    It depends how you define greatest Leaf...are we talking pure stats or are we talking who the fans like the most. Wendel Clark and Doug Gilmour are to me the greatest Leafs in my lifetime
    Not pure stats. Stats matter but obviously impact matters too. Who the fans like the most would put Tucker and Domi way too high on this list.

    I can understand Gilmour to an extent (But it was a very short time of effectiveness) but to have Wendel over Sundin is just unjustifiable (other than enjoying his playing style). And if its just enjoying playing style, I like Grabovski playing style the most of all Leaf forwards but I recognize Kessell's superiority.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrice9 View Post
    I didn't say you were dumb. I wasn't even saying people who support Wendel was dumb. I was saying popular support as a method for evaluating what's true or better is not a real way because people are often dumb or wrong.

    Wendel just wasn't in the same class as guys like Keon, Sundin, Sittler, Kennedy, Connacher, Frank M, or Gilmour for his brief stop.

    I would likely say though this is pretty controversial that Kessel will pass (Assuming he signs an extension) Wendel.


    Just because Wendel stayed a long time doesn't make him the franchise's best player. If Wendel Clark who should never sniff the hall of the fame is the Leaf's greatest, we've had a horrible run as a franchise
    Just figuring this out now?

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingerSox View Post
    Just figuring this out now?
    Not really, pre 1967 still counts and even after that period we've still had some good teams and good players just with no Stanley Cup.

    There is literally no justification though for taking Clark over Sittler,Sundin or Keon though though.

    Like zero justification.

    How can a guy who will never even sniff the hockey hall of fame be better than two guys who pretty easily made it.

  6. #21
    Lavy16 is offline Users Awaiting Moderation
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    Wendel Clark might not get into the Hall of Fame, but he is the most loved Leaf of all time no doubt about it. It wouldn't even be close if the fan base were to vote.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lavy16 View Post
    Wendel Clark might not get into the Hall of Fame, but he is the most loved Leaf of all time no doubt about it. It wouldn't even be close if the fan base were to vote.
    this is the only answer, Clark is most loved player of all time. 2nd is a tie between Gilmour and Bower.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lavy16 View Post
    Wendel Clark might not get into the Hall of Fame, but he is the most loved Leaf of all time no doubt about it. It wouldn't even be close if the fan base were to vote.
    Most loved is not the same as best.

  9. #24
    Lavy16 is offline Users Awaiting Moderation
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    You never said best...you said the greatest

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lavy16 View Post
    You never said best...you said the greatest
    Greatest is not most popular either?

    Greatest means most superior in quality.

  11. #26
    Lavy16 is offline Users Awaiting Moderation
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrice9 View Post
    Greatest is not most popular either?

    Greatest means most superior in quality.
    If I had the 1st overall pick of a draft that included Wendel Clark, Doug Gilmour and Mats Favre knowing what I know now about their careers, this is how I woukld rank them:

    1. Doug Gilmour
    2. Wendel Clark
    3. Mats Sundin

    Sundin put up points, but he wasn't a leader. He didn't play with half the passion Clark and Gilmour did. When did Sundin ever show any emotion?

  12. #27
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    Hap Day

    Things will always work out in the end, but if you want them to turn out a certain way... You need to make it happen.

  13. #28
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    Greatest Leaf ever was Wendel Clark HANDS DOWN.

    I won't insult anyone who disagrees with that but at the same time he brought everything an amazing leader, hockey player and person needs to bring to a team. Grit, Hands, attitude, will to win, etc. He fought, he hit all that jazz.

    Wendel Clark is my clear cut #1. Other great Leafs include Gilmour, Sitler, Salming, Sundin, Bower, Keon etc.


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  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lavy16 View Post
    If I had the 1st overall pick of a draft that included Wendel Clark, Doug Gilmour and Mats Favre knowing what I know now about their careers, this is how I woukld rank them:

    1. Doug Gilmour
    2. Wendel Clark
    3. Mats Sundin

    Sundin put up points, but he wasn't a leader. He didn't play with half the passion Clark and Gilmour did. When did Sundin ever show any emotion?
    Your literally off your rocker.

    Wendel Clark was a role player, a very good role player but a role player. Sundin wasn't such an outspoken guy but he was pretty damn revered in the locker room. Teammates love him and he won the Messier award for leadership for a reason. The guy wasn't a loud guy but he led by examples and was a damn good professional. Your logic would also apply to Nicklas lidstrom and I would damn well take Lidstrom over Clark or any other so called loud leader. Lidstrom for example is a hell of a better defenseman than Scott Stevens (a hall of famer unlike Clark) despite the difference in leadership style. Some of the greatest players ever are quiet, doesn't make them wrose.

    If you would seriously in a franchise draft take Wendel Clark who is likely not one of the top 250 (and this is generous) position players of all time instead of Sundin who is clearly in the top 100, you've lost it and really are a bad evaluator of players.




    Also, your cheating a bit with Gilmour. Sundin vs Gilmour's overall careers is a good discussion but Sundin played way longer at a high level as a Leaf than Gilmour.

  15. #30
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    The forum has Greatest Leaf ever. So that shouldn't include who else made it into the Hall of Fame, or how many points someone scored. Just because a guy like Gilmour has more points then Clark doesn't make him greater.

    As an invidual player and Maple Leaf Clark definitely deserves it.


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