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  1. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by conway429 View Post
    ^ I'm not sure, but isn't the draft lottery different this year? 14 teams equal chance at #1? So tanking for MacKinnon doesn't really work
    14 teams do have a shot but obviously those who finish 30th, 29th ect have a better percentage at winning that pick.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eagles4Lyfe View Post
    We never spend the money needed or make the trades necessary to obtaining these guys. Carter, Richards, Nash, Brad Richards, Parise, Suter etc..

    Were stuck in mediocrity because our drafting sucks and were scared to spend money on elite level talent. This offseason is another opportunity to pick up elite level talent possibly and we probably won't do anything either. Instead we overpay guys like Komisarek and Connolly.

    We've always needed size its the biggest problem with us, everyone wanted Nash. Nash+Kessel on the first line would've been the perfect balance look at the Rangers first line. Its scary as **** because of the size, but again we were scared.

    Phaneuf is also a useless bum, the guy literally is not good for anything.


    Good because we need Seth Jones more
    If we pick first and pick Seth Jones it'll be a culmination of everything that's brought us to the point of constantly sucking over the past decade. People want to pick him over MacKinnon but there's a reason MacKinnon's been on the international radar since he was 13 or 14. He's the best player in the draft. He's a better pick than Jones and that's the last I'll say about it. The delusional can keep peggin Jones as the best. Guarentee if anybody but Edmonton picks first this year MacKinnon goes #1. I'd bet my house on it and I'd be confident.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lavy16 View Post
    I almost felt bad for Kessel until I remembered his $5.4 million cap hit. He's paid to score goals. Everyone knows he's a one dimentional player and the majority of people are ok with that. The problem with Kessel is when he isn't scoring he doesn't have anything else to offer.
    That's the thing. You CAN'T stick up for Kessel when he doesn't score even if he's coming close because he offers absolutely nothing outside of statistics. Nothing. He's a useless passenger if he's not producing.

  2. #107
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    My apologies boys. Had some house problems yesterday and forgot to make a thread. Didn't start watching the game till 11... and I kinda wish I didn't after the first. It was all going downhill again. Two games in a row where we got outclassed after the first. I expected it from the Rangers though.

  3. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lavy16 View Post
    You build the core through the draft and add complimentary pieces like jrice suggested. You have to build the core through the draft and this is the part MLSE hasn't figured out yet. This team needs goaltending, #1 center, #1 d-man. Right now in the system, the Leafs might have a #1 d-man in Gardnier or Reilly. They need to draft and develope a #1 center. A goalie might be easier to sign as a UFA, but you will have to be willing to pay. The Leafs need to get lucky on a draft similar to what the Avs did when they drafted Duschene and O'Reilly in the same draft. The Leafs need to hit a homerun out side of the 1st round.
    For once I agree 100%.

    The goalie during UFA or a trade may work but developing one is nice also.


    The goalie market is actualyl fairly interesting the next two years and I'd make an investment if I was the Leafs


    We're not looking at RFA's so here is the UFA goalies for the next two offseasons.

    2013:
    Tim Thomas
    Nicklas Backstrom
    Evgeni Nabakov

    All 3 are way too old. (Backstrom is 34 going on 35, and at this point we want someone who will be effective for 5 years ideally). For a short term situation if we draft/develop a goalie it might be worth a guy like Thomas.

    But here are the following options if we want to splurge.

    30 year old Mike Smith
    28 year old Jimmy Howard

    Neither are quite the cream of the crop when it comes to goalies but are certainly above average.

    2014 will have a 31 year old Henrik Lundqvist, 33 year old Ryan Miller, 37 year old Mikka Kiprusoff, 31 year old Jonas Hiller, 28 year old Jaroslav Halak, 29 year old Corey Crawford.

    I doubt we'll ever have a chance at Lundqvist.

    So here are my top options (most of whom won't hit FA especially the 2014 guys)

    1, Jimmy Howard
    2, Mike Smith
    3, Ryan Miller
    4, Jonas hiller

  4. #109
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    I'd love to snag Hiller if he made it to FA. Obviously any of those guys would be thetits but Hiller after a full(shortened) season without any set back after injury trouble would be bomb. Guy's a great goalie. He can steal a game. Haven't seen a goalie do that here since Belfour sadly enough. Wasn't that like 10 years ago or so?

  5. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingerSox View Post
    I'd love to snag Hiller if he made it to FA. Obviously any of those guys would be thetits but Hiller after a full(shortened) season without any set back after injury trouble would be bomb. Guy's a great goalie. He can steal a game. Haven't seen a goalie do that here since Belfour sadly enough. Wasn't that like 10 years ago or so?
    Last time we even had a top 10 goaltender was Belfour in 2002-2003 (he was in the top 5). In 2003-2004 Belfour slipped and was merely above average. in 2005-2006 he was brutal as our main goaltender. In 2006-2007 Raycroft was pretty well below average though he played alot of games. Toskala was below average in 2007-2008, brutal in 2008-2009. 2009-2010 it was a combination of a brutal Toskala (literally the worst goalie in the league), a bad rookie Gustavsson and a good Giguere but only for 16 games.

    Then we know about the last two years.

  6. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingerSox View Post
    14 teams do have a shot but obviously those who finish 30th, 29th ect have a better percentage at winning that pick.



    If we pick first and pick Seth Jones it'll be a culmination of everything that's brought us to the point of constantly sucking over the past decade. People want to pick him over MacKinnon but there's a reason MacKinnon's been on the international radar since he was 13 or 14. He's the best player in the draft. He's a better pick than Jones and that's the last I'll say about it. The delusional can keep peggin Jones as the best. Guarentee if anybody but Edmonton picks first this year MacKinnon goes #1. I'd bet my house on it and I'd be confident.



    That's the thing. You CAN'T stick up for Kessel when he doesn't score even if he's coming close because he offers absolutely nothing outside of statistics. Nothing. He's a useless passenger if he's not producing.
    Oh I said it cause I don't ever have faith in a Toronto team ever getting the first pick in the draft. I would expect us from anywhere from 2-5... It's just our luck as fans, which is why I set my mind on getting the second best thing.


    2013 Mock Chicago Bulls

  7. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lavy16 View Post
    I was looking up the NHL leaders in +/- and had a good laugh when I saw that Dion Phaneuf was ranked 621st in the NHL. That rank gives him the worst +/- in the entire NHL. His partner Michael Kostka is ranked 620th earning his the second worst +/- in the league. Says a lot about a team when their number 1 defensive pairing is ranked dead last in the entire NHL.
    I saw that to.. brutal.
    Quote Originally Posted by jrice9 View Post
    Well considering Kessell is still providing the most offensive opportunities on the team, thats pretty damn good. Your going to have bad puck luck at times. Some of it is is his fault but most of it is bad luck.

    He's leading the NHL in shots and is among the leader's in scoring opportunities. Thats damn good offense.
    I agree, he's been good.
    Quote Originally Posted by jrice9 View Post
    Our problem still isn't really offense (though Lupul's injury certainly hurts that significantly.

    Sure most players are from teh draft though the examples you listed aren't the best ones considering the following:

    Blackhawks-Sharp and Hossa are not from the draft
    Sharks-Thornton, Havlat are not from the draft
    Rangers-Nash, Gaborik and Richards are not from the draft
    Penguins-Neal, Kunitz are not from the draft
    Bruins- Got me here
    Canucks-Burrows and Higgins not from the draft.

    The other issue is you can't purely build a top 6 through early picks. You need smart management. I have no problem with this team trying to win (not risking the future though at the same time). If we get a high pick, fine but we should also be developing talent outside the top 5 as well or this team will never get good.

    Additionally, you listed top 6 offenses in the NHL in all liklihood as examples of elite forwards. Even considering the guys you listed a significant number of them are not elite offensive players.

    The problem which I think Lavy agrees with me on this with the team is primarily on defense and primarily goaltending.

    Yes Reimer got a bit screwed in this game and the offense wasn't good but generally we have awful goaltending combined with awful defense and penalty killing
    Lavy kinda emphasizes what I meant by that post.

    What I was trying to say is the CORE has to come from the draft. Toews, Kane, Seabrook, Keith did come from the draft. Sedin twins, Kesler, Edler, and Burrows (undrafted) came from the draft. Bruins came from the draft. Malkin, Crosby, Staal, Fleury came from the draft. Etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lavy16 View Post
    You build the core through the draft and add complimentary pieces like jrice suggested. You have to build the core through the draft and this is the part MLSE hasn't figured out yet. This team needs goaltending, #1 center, #1 d-man. Right now in the system, the Leafs might have a #1 d-man in Gardnier or Reilly. They need to draft and develope a #1 center. A goalie might be easier to sign as a UFA, but you will have to be willing to pay. The Leafs need to get lucky on a draft similar to what the Avs did when they drafted Duschene and O'Reilly in the same draft. The Leafs need to hit a homerun out side of the 1st round.
    Agreed.

    Quote Originally Posted by conway429 View Post
    Bolland and Higgins are elite...........
    I was just stating the top 6 of all the elite offences smartass.

  8. #113
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    Those +/- stats don't shock me. The fact Kotska or Kostka or whoever he is plays 20 minutes a night is down right laughable to say the least.

  9. #114
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    ^ Kostka has been pretty solid considering but yeah we shouldn't have him playing that much. What kills us is playing Dion 32 minutes. The guy started out strong against the rags but just wore out. Carlyle has nothing else to work with. Just watch late in the season Dion will be even worse or might even get injured, we need Liles, Gunnar, and Gardiner to take minutes from him. Watch Dion closely every game, he starts off well and then just falls off. It's going to get worse because we know how Carlyle likes to match lines, and it was exposed last night (Saturday). If Chara can get burned by the NYR top line then anyone can.

  10. #115
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    There's Olympic superpowers that can't put a top line together like NYR haha. Dion and Kostco were in wayyy over their heads. Dion's not suited for a shutdown role. The day they took him off the 2nd pairing in Calgary and moved him up to the top in more of a defensive role is coincidently when he started his down fall/regression call it what you want. Never the same player he was when he was sheltered.

    I think I went through 2 pairs of underwear every time that line came on the ice for NYR.

  11. #116
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    Dion is currently 2nd in average time on ice behind Doughty with almost 28 minutes. That's almost 10 minutes more then he should be playing. Dion's never been a guy that pushes guys off the puck, he was an open ice hitter that got that big-tough guy rep and some leaf fans look at his rep and salary and ignore what position he is best suited for.

    Nonis has to look for another 20 minute dman, give NYI a call and see if you can lure Vishnovsky from the KHL. If not then Carlyle needs to lean more on Liles and stop putting Franson and Komi in the line up and limiting them to 15 minutes. If Dion continue this pace he's going to get seriously injured and that +/- that some are focusing in on will continue to drop.

    Dion is the best Dman we have right now but we have to pull minutes from him and i suggest taking him off the PP. It will take away his points but if they are going to have him on the PK all the time they need him to be fresh. Fatigue isn't just physical it's mental as well, and the majority of his errors happen to be mental. Sure he wasn't the brightest and well-positioned dman before but you can clearly see how fast and easily he wears off. He flattened Nash and held that line in check early on in the game, then the 3rd period hits (Dion was already at 22 minutes after 2 periods BTW)... and he falls off just like every other game, just look at the NYI game.

    I know it looks like i'm just being a Leafs homer or defending Dion when some think it's stupid to, but look at the position he's been put into. That would be unheard of in his days in Calgary, but somehow it's Dions fault and he's a scrub because he can't stop arguably the most lethal line in the NHL. He isn't the best captain in the league but who else is captain material here? Grabo? Lupul? some didn't even want them to re-sign here, Kessel? Gardiner? nope too young and too one-dimensional. Dion (good at it or not) sticks up for his teammates when neccessary, not all the time because that would be stupid to give away your best Dman to a penalty but he's the best we got in terms of leadership. At anytime Dion could have called out this team for the **** that he's been forced to play with, i mean Carl Gunnarsson barely cracks the top four on a playoff contender yet he's the best defensive dman Dion's had here, yet it's dions fault we suck defensively

    The coach of the LA kings and former Calgary Flames coach Daryl Sutter once said that Phanuef will make mistakes because he is not afraid of making mistakes, but he gives it 100% every time. He called him a leader and a constant competitor because he knows whats expected of him and always tries to do more (the jist of a few quotes, my ending starts here) but we have to understand that no matter how much players compete sometimes they just aren't meant to succeed at every facet of the game. I'd be really interested in hearing what some scouts and Daryl have to say now, they'd most likely rip us for having him play in the situations he does. But hey maybe we can call Calgary and see if we can take Stajan back, 18 points last year and only a -3 .

    Goaltending... that is all.

    /rant
    Last edited by OptiMized; 01-28-2013 at 10:05 AM. Reason: Spelling, few words missing,

  12. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingerSox View Post
    There's Olympic superpowers that can't put a top line together like NYR haha. Dion and Kostco were in wayyy over their heads. Dion's not suited for a shutdown role. The day they took him off the 2nd pairing in Calgary and moved him up to the top in more of a defensive role is coincidently when he started his down fall/regression call it what you want. Never the same player he was when he was sheltered.

    I think I went through 2 pairs of underwear every time that line came on the ice for NYR.
    You my friend just gave birth to the greatest nickname on this team.

    "Mike Kostco! because the leafs always buy in bulk!... and we have limited selection so take what you can get..."

  13. #118
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    @ practice today

    David Alter ‏@DavidAlter590

    JVR-Bozak-Kessel, McClement-Grabovski-Kulemin, Frattin-Kadri-Komarov, Brown-Steckel-Orr. MacArthur missing.
    That finger might be worse than thought.

  14. #119
    Lavy16 is offline Users Awaiting Moderation
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    Anyone know what Jeff Finger is doing these days? I would seriously consider him to help out at the league minimum

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