Baseball Myths

[jej]

that's your opinion.
there are people who would die because of how much they believe. to them God is as real as anything.

But they don't have evidence. It's fine that they believe that, because its faith. You are acting like what you believe is fact without having any evidence.

[Cheezombie]

I didnt go that detailed because that wasn't my point. I agree with what you said. If its that close, then I would adjust for hitting styles. But overall, I would put my most reliable hitters in that order.

I would generally build my lineup that way too, but that's not what the optimization is saying exactly. It says that OBP is most important in this order 1,4,2,5,3,6,7,8,9 and Power is basically more important in the 4, 5, 2, 3, etc. It just so happens that because of that level of importance, what you said is usually the case, but should not be the rule. The rule is what it says in the article I posted.

But overall we basically agree.

[Guppyfighter]

that's your opinion.
there are people who would die because of how much they believe. to them God is as real as anything.

That doesn't make it real. And the bolded is not a good thing. It's the opposite. And it's a cautionary tale believing something so strongly without evidence.

[SpecialFNK]

No it doesn't. No one faces the same pitchers the same amount of times as someone else. So you are insinuating we can never compare any two players because they don't face the same pitchers? Wow

are all pitchers equal?

lets say the Tigers face the Angles in a series against Weaver/Wilson/Hanson, but Cabrera/Fielder don't have a lot of success.
lets say the White Sox faces the Astros in a series against Harrell/Lyles/Humber, where Konerko and Dunn light those pitchers up.
does this mean Konerko/Dunn are better than Cabrera/Fielder?
no.
but the different pitchers make a difference.
over a season many different batters are facing many different pitchers, and those pitchers can have an effect on the results the batters have. plus there are other factors that can lead to the results the batters have, even luck.

to go even further. I've seen it mentioned about certain pitches, but even the same pitch is different. a 90 MPH fastball isn't going to be as good as a 98 MPH fastball. add in what the batter is looking for. a batter can be looking for an off speed pitch, get a 90 MPH fastball and still be fooled. a batter can be looking fastball, and when getting a 98 MPH fastball he still can't handle it.

those all can make a difference. so unless those were accounted for in a study, the study is flawed.

[Guppyfighter]

are all pitchers equal?

lets say the Tigers face the Angles in a series against Weaver/Wilson/Hanson, but Cabrera/Fielder don't have a lot of success.
lets say the White Sox faces the Astros in a series against Harrell/Lyles/Humber, where Konerko and Dunn light those pitchers up.
does this mean Konerko/Dunn are better than Cabrera/Fielder?
no.
but the different pitchers make a difference.
over a season many different batters are facing many different pitchers, and those pitchers can have an effect on the results the batters have. plus there are other factors that can lead to the results the batters have, even luck.

to go even further. I've seen it mentioned about certain pitches, but even the same pitch is different. a 90 MPH fastball isn't going to be as good as a 98 MPH fastball. add in what the batter is looking for. a batter can be looking for an off speed pitch, get a 90 MPH fastball and still be fooled. a batter can be looking fastball, and when getting a 98 MPH fastball he still can't handle it.

those all can make a difference. so unless those were accounted for in a study, the study is flawed.

You are defending this so adamantly, despite it being so demonstrably wrong.

[Guppyfighter]

Suggestion: Find a pitcher that a has a large sample vs one of the sets and then try to find variation in his pitch location and selection.

Find the difference for Prince behind Cabera and not prince behind Cabera.

Do this for a specific pitch that has faced Cabera enough times without and with that line up. Probably someone from the division.

[jej]

are all pitchers equal?

lets say the Tigers face the Angles in a series against Weaver/Wilson/Hanson, but Cabrera/Fielder don't have a lot of success.
lets say the White Sox faces the Astros in a series against Harrell/Lyles/Humber, where Konerko and Dunn light those pitchers up.
does this mean Konerko/Dunn are better than Cabrera/Fielder?
no.
but the different pitchers make a difference.
over a season many different batters are facing many different pitchers, and those pitchers can have an effect on the results the batters have. plus there are other factors that can lead to the results the batters have, even luck.

to go even further. I've seen it mentioned about certain pitches, but even the same pitch is different. a 90 MPH fastball isn't going to be as good as a 98 MPH fastball. add in what the batter is looking for. a batter can be looking for an off speed pitch, get a 90 MPH fastball and still be fooled. a batter can be looking fastball, and when getting a 98 MPH fastball he still can't handle it.

those all can make a difference. so unless those were accounted for in a study, the study is flawed.

That's why you need more than 3 games of data. Come on now. We have said this before. We need full years worth of PA to know anything accurately. One series isn't enough.

Are you suggesting we never compare players over a season/career because they faced different pitchers?

[SpecialFNK]

so basically you're saying it doesn't matter who the pitchers are? a batter's results are 100% on the batter, and nothing on the pitcher?

I don't need to find specific results. all I have to look at is the difference in many different pitchers, and know the different results in those pitchers are going to make a difference to the batters they face.

it's not something that would get looked at much. in the MVP debate this season with Mike Trout vs Miguel Cabrera. I doubt anyone broke it down to which pitchers each of them faced. but I don't think it's a stretch to assume they each faced different pitchers, and that those pitchers could have had an effect on the Trout's and Cabrera's results, even if only small effect.

[Cheezombie]

It's because over the course of a season, most batters will have faced pretty much the same level of talent.

[SpecialFNK]

It's because over the course of a season, most batters will have faced pretty much the same level of talent.

since I'm told to prove everything with evidence, this is where I would have to say.. prove this with evidence.

with unbalanced schedule teams might not always face the same level of competition, or the same ballparks. the better teams in the AL Central have been able to beat up on a weak team like Kansas City more than the teams from the East and West can.

[jej]

It's not going to be exact, but it's going to be pretty close.

[Guppyfighter]

since I'm told to prove everything with evidence, this is where I would have to say.. prove this with evidence.

with unbalanced schedule teams might not always face the same level of competition, or the same ballparks. the better teams in the AL Central have been able to beat up on a weak team like Kansas City more than the teams from the East and West can.

Explain to me how this is good evidence for protection?

[Cheezombie]

There's a stat on Baseball-Reference that shows strength of schedule per pitcher. I assume there's one for hitters too, so go check it out. But since position players play every day, they are seeing a much larger sample of the pitching that exists than say pitchers do. Since a pitcher only pitches every 5th day, it's possible to avoid tougher lineups overall. It's not that easy when you're a hitter. Because hitters are seeing such a large sample, it generally evens out. Now of course there will be slight differences due to divisions, but not much.

[Jeffy25]

Part of what made Price somewhat deserving of the Cy Young this year ^

[mtf]

that's your opinion.
there are people who would die because of how much they believe. to them God is as real as anything.

The vast majority of those who are true believers and put their life on the line for it are indoctrinated to think that way from a far too early age. It's mental child abuse.