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Thread: Baseball Myths

  1. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by jej View Post
    It has been shown than clutch and things do not have an effect. And like I said earlier, anything that does have an affect will have an affect on the stats.

    I don't pretend to know everything either. No one here is. I don't even see where that came from. If anything I am saying that we don't know anything for sure about what a guys thinking, so we can't use it when analyzing players. You seem to think you can look at a guy and know what he is feeling or thinking, considering you want to talk about intangibles.

    It comes down to production. A guy can have as much or as little heart as he wants, but it doesn't matter if he can't/can produce. If a guy "is a winner" or knows how to win", but doesn't win, then none of that ish matters.why worry about things that we don't know about, especially if they don't matter?
    Let's see the proof.

  2. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by jej View Post
    Any logical person thinks objective>subjective. If you want the right answer, why wouldn't you want objective info?
    Because, as has been noted, not everything is quantifiable.

    But hey, if you want to stay in your safe little bubble here where nothing but the numbers need be discussed, you're welcome to it.

    For the record, I'm a huge fan of SABR metrics. I just hate seeing half-wits arrogantly toss them around without providing any sort of context. Gives the rest of us a bad name.

  3. #198
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    But more importantly, I'm annoyed and embarrassed when you folks snark and laugh off anyone who tries to bring anything else to the table. It's so childish and insecure.

  4. #199
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    Wheres my popcorn?

  5. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hickenlooper View Post
    Because, as has been noted, not everything is quantifiable.

    But hey, if you want to stay in your safe little bubble here where nothing but the numbers need be discussed, you're welcome to it.

    For the record, I'm a huge fan of SABR metrics. I just hate seeing half-wits arrogantly toss them around without providing any sort of context. Gives the rest of us a bad name.
    How can you fairly use unquantifiable things to compare players? Please, enlighten me.
    You have no idea how excited I am right now.


  6. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hickenlooper View Post
    Let's see the proof.
    You have google too.

    And you once again ignored the second part of the bolded. Whenever someone makes a point, you ignore it and pick other parts of the post.
    You have no idea how excited I am right now.


  7. #202
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    http://www.baseballprospectus.com/ar...articleid=2656

    The Internet is a wonderful thing.
    You have no idea how excited I am right now.


  8. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by keymax View Post
    In terms of fundamentals they were by a lot.

    That a lot of players can't lay down a freaking bunt is mind boggling. Outfielders overthrow the cutoff man consistenly. Guys like Bryce Harper have a strong throwing arm and want to show it off, but have no clue where to throw the ball.
    Bunting is stupid anyways 99% of the time.

  9. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by sexicano31 View Post
    Bingo. People have mental lapses, or are rushing to make a play, etc so they choked. See: Nelson Cruz in the 2011 WS. Should have caught that flyball to end the game and the series, but took a bad route. People say he choked. I say he misjudged it. **** happens
    Don't make me block you. That night never happened, no one shall speak of it!

  10. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    Then how does it exist?


    Because all the evidence says it doesn't exist....at all.

    Having Prince Fielder behind them didn't make Miguel Cabrera better and it didn't make Ryan Braun worse to not have him. In fact, Cabrera had a better year in 2011, and Braun had a better 2012.

    So how does it exist?

    The pitches a batter sees isn't different, the amount of strikes they are thrown doesn't vary, and their production doesn't vary.

    As a Giants fan who saw Bonds. I would believe you would be the first to say it doesn't exist. Bonds didn't affect the players before or after him at all.
    Listen, it exists in opportunities and that's not deniable. If you have guys that take in front and behind you and maybe have speed it changes pitches you would see, fastball counts being more predictable, pitchers being forced to touch the plate, etc.

    That absolutely exists

    And a once affected Kent and Aurilia both. They weren't different players but because in certain instances like I stated before, they were able to sit on situations and it reflected in their home run totals.

    I think it gives you a small sample of opportunities a season, it's not some big career altering difference

    And one might argue Bonds was the one who's numbers were affected by him not having protection, not visa versa. You think Bonds loses years worth of ABs if AP is behind him?
    Last edited by KingPosey; 01-28-2013 at 11:32 PM.

  11. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingPosey View Post
    Listen, it exists in opportunities and that's not deniable. If you have guys that take in front and behind you and maybe have speed it changes pitches you would see, fastball counts being more predictable, pitchers being forced to touch the plate, etc.

    That absolutely exists

    And a once affected Kent and Aurilia both. They weren't different players but because in certain instances like I stated before, they were able to sit on situations and it reflected in their home run totals.

    I think it gives you a small sample of opportunities a season, it's not some big career altering difference
    You aren't providing any evidence. You are making assumptions.


    The God honest truth is that batters with men on base do not see more fastballs, it is a myth.

    As for Kent and Aurilla. You are referring to their prime years.

    Kent had his best year (00) before Bonds went nuts, and when Bonds was nuts (01-04) Kent was back to his career norms for his peak like he was before 00, and when he went to Houston and LA, he was the same player with a gradual decline.

    Kent held that peak until 01-07 with the Dodgers and Astros with no Barry Bonds.

    The pitches he was given were not different, his execution on those pitches wasn't different. He was the same player who had his career year in 2000 at a very typical peak age (32).

    Rich Aurilla had one good season (01) and was **** the rest of his career, even though he spent significant time around Bonds in the lineup. He had a career year at a very typical peak age (29). If it was so great in 01 for Aurilla, why was he so bad in 99, 00, 02, 03. He was still hitting next to Bonds for the majority of those PA (usually ahead of him) just like in 01.

    Pujols best years were the years he didn't have Rolen and Edmonds but actually Juan Encarnacion and Reggie Sanders hitting behind him.


    I actually did a large breakdown on this awhile ago and broke down the pitches Kent and Aurilla saw when Bonds was next to them in the lineup and when he wasn't. They got the same pitches thrown to them, the same frequency of strikes, and their performances in the end ended up being the same overall. They provided their career years and you are using it as an example to prove your 'perception' or 'assumption'. You are looking for anecdotal evidence to prove a theory. But there is so much evidence out there that says the contrary.

    You said it exists in the ways that we are unaware. So what are those ways? That's why I responded.

  12. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hickenlooper View Post
    Given that anyone who brings up anything that isn't quantifiable (no matter how real or potentially important) is immediately snarked off of this forum and you seem to be the ring leader, I'd say it's a decent assumption.
    What? Where is this coming from?

    I don't believe you actually read my post.

  13. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hickenlooper View Post
    Because I'm not arrogant enough to think that I can know everything there is to know.
    Who here is? You seem to be making inferences that are not here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hickenlooper View Post
    Let's see the proof.
    http://lmgtfy.com/?q=does+clutch+hav...in+baseball%3F

  14. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by jej View Post
    How can you fairly use unquantifiable things to compare players? Please, enlighten me.
    How can you fairly ignore information, quantifiable or no, and make statements with such certainty?

    The arrogance of modern baseball fans never amazes.

  15. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hickenlooper View Post
    How can you fairly ignore information, quantifiable or no, and make statements with such certainty?

    The arrogance of modern baseball fans never amazes.
    Are you even trying to answer him?

    All you are doing is side-stepping his question and just typing.

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