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  1. #1
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    Loyalty Oath in Arizona to Graduate High School?

    Arizona has developed a penchant for political stances that spark legal and policy battles that sometimes hurt the state’s image among Hispanics, young people, tourists and businesses.

    Arizona’s image problem has popped in the past few years with guns, immigration and battles with President Barack Obama, to the lament of the tourism industry, meeting planners and business recruiters.

    Those folks have been worried over how the pro-gun-rights Arizona Legislature will react in the wake of the Newtown, Conn., shootings and Obama’s push for new federal gun controls.

    But there is another bill introduced at the Legislature that could be cause for some public relations headaches for Arizona, spark a legal fight and feed into the Grand Canyon State’s right-wing narrative that’s been turning off some tourists, young professionals, Hispanics and businesses.

    A group of Republican lawmakers want to require Arizona students to recite a loyalty oath to the U.S. and its Constitution before they can graduate high school. They are sponsoring House Bill 2467 in the Legislature. If passed, it would make the loyalty oath a prerequisite for graduation from any public high school in Arizona starting with the 2013-14 school year.

    Students would be required to say:

    I do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose or evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge these duties; so help me God.

    The wording sounds somewhat similar to oaths of office taken by members of Congress and the U.S. president. Some states have required public employees, including school teachers, to take or sign similar oaths.

    From an economic development and tourism perspective, if the issue somehow takes off, it could write another unflattering chapter in Arizona’s book.

    The bill also comes as the Arizona Chamber of Commerce & Industry and Gov. Jan Brewer look at setting new standards for Arizona schools.

    The chamber and other business groups want Arizona students to be more career-ready. Business and political leaders also want to attract and keep more young professionals and college students. Controversy over a loyalty oath, if it passes, might not mesh with those goals.

    The Arizona bill could also face legal challenges if it is approved.

    Jehovah’s witnesses, some Muslims and pacifist Quakers have in the past challenged loyalty oaths imposed by the federal government and other agencies, saying they conflict with their beliefs and religious professions. Similarly, some Arizona students could challenge the proposed high school oath as a violation of their religious liberties and freedom of expression.

    The American Civil Liberties Union of Arizona could not be reached for comment Friday.
    http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/b...ana=twt&page=2
    Seems like a 1st amendment issue to me.

  2. #2
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    Yeah, I just read about this on one of the blogs I read. So stupid. Arizona is a mess. This does nothing to improve anything, but does make sure to force atheists and the like to lie, and force people like Quakers and Jehovah's Witnesses to sue to stop this since it's against their religion to take oath's like this.

    But seriously... does this improve their education somehow? No. So what's the point?
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  3. #3
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    Just another example that no matter how completely batshit insane your politics are, you can get yourself elected to office somewhere in the US....and then set about ****ing with other people's lives.

  4. #4
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    i honestly don't see anything wrong with this
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  5. #5
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    More representatives of the republican party just making them look stupider and stupider *sigh*

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    Quote Originally Posted by FOBolous View Post
    i honestly don't see anything wrong with this
    If Texas passed a law that said "I like to lick monkey nuts" in order for you to obtain a diploma you would be cool with that?

  7. #7
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    You have to take an oath just to vote in the state of Vermont... anyone getting up in arms (forgive the sarcastic pun) over that?? No? Okay then.

    In November 2002, the Vermont General Assembly amended the language of the oath to reflect the inclusion of women. The oath was retitled the "Voter's Oath." The text of the revised oath reads:

    § 42. Voter's qualifications and oaths
    Every person of the full age of eighteen years who is a citizen of the United States, having resided in this State for the period established by the General Assembly and who is of a quiet and peaceable behavior, and will take the following oath or affirmation, shall be entitled to all the privileges of a voter of this state:

    You solemnly swear (or affirm) that whenever you give your vote or suffrage, touching any matter that concerns the State of Vermont, you will do it so as in your conscience you shall judge will most conduce to the best good of the same, as established by the Constitution, without fear or favor of any person.

    Vermont is the only U.S. state with a voter's oath.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Patsfan56 View Post
    You have to take an oath just to vote in the state of Vermont... anyone getting up in arms (forgive the sarcastic pun) over that?? No? Okay then.
    Completely different ends of the spectrum. That isn't some political drivel bringing up religion, god and fighting against "enemies" ie illegals. If that oath said something benign as "I will be the best student I can be blah blah" that would be another story.

  9. #9
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    At this point my reaction is who cares. This sounds like it is a bill that has just been introduced meaning its got a long way to go before even coming up for a vote. If that is the case this isn't even newsworthy as I am certain in every state several bat **** crazy bills are introduced and then go on to die in committee meetings. Bills aren't introduced and then voted on so come back when its actually up for a vote with the legislature.
    French writer Alexis de Tocqueville warned about when visiting this fledgling democracy in the early 19th century – that this "American republic will endure until politicians realize they can bribe the people with their own money."

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patsfan56 View Post
    You have to take an oath just to vote in the state of Vermont... anyone getting up in arms (forgive the sarcastic pun) over that?? No? Okay then.
    Stop with this. If you can't see that the two are clearly different...


    I do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose or evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge these duties; so help me God.

    You solemnly swear (or affirm) that whenever you give your vote or suffrage, touching any matter that concerns the State of Vermont, you will do it so as in your conscience you shall judge will most conduce to the best good of the same, as established by the Constitution, without fear or favor of any person.
    ...then I have to question if you're sober right now.

    Vermont's is saying, basically, "When I vote, I am doing so unconcerned and with the good of the state in mind." No random injection of a deity that would seem to mean atheists either don't graduate, or lie (because that's always a good choice to force people into!), and it doesn't compel people into defending anything, as Arizona's is trying to do.

    These people aren't signing up for the Marines, they're just trying to graduate from high school. Why are they being given any "duties" at all is beyond me.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by hoosiercubsfan View Post
    At this point my reaction is who cares. This sounds like it is a bill that has just been introduced meaning its got a long way to go before even coming up for a vote. If that is the case this isn't even newsworthy as I am certain in every state several bat **** crazy bills are introduced and then go on to die in committee meetings. Bills aren't introduced and then voted on so come back when its actually up for a vote with the legislature.
    The problem is that Arizona is a place where bills like this can actually pass, and there's not a thing a Dem lawmaker can do about it.

    Plus, things like this getting attention is what helps them die in committee. People that introduce absurd ideas like this one need to be held accountable, not ignored.
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    "Glad the GOP finally came out with an Obamacare alternative. Can't wait to see their alternative to the Iraq War." - @LOLGOP

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by natepro View Post
    Stop with this. If you can't see that the two are clearly different...








    ...then I have to question if you're sober right now.

    Vermont's is saying, basically, "When I vote, I am doing so unconcerned and with the good of the state in mind." No random injection of a deity that would seem to mean atheists either don't graduate, or lie (because that's always a good choice to force people into!), and it doesn't compel people into defending anything, as Arizona's is trying to do.

    These people aren't signing up for the Marines, they're just trying to graduate from high school. Why are they being given any "duties" at all is beyond me.
    You can't force people to swear to anything legally. Its swear or affirm, and the first oath is almost a direct quote from the enlistment oath, which is also "swear or affirm". Affirm has to e included. Both indicate the person's promise to do their duty as citizens. Both are essentially the same.

    Ergo, if no one had an issue with teh state of Vermont forcing every citizen to take its oath, they can't double back now on this, given affirm is in the language. If not, its a clear violation of separation of church and state, and isn't worthy of consideration.

  13. #13
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    All this sounds like is a pointless oath that actually makes people commit perjury if there is any part of it that you don't agree with. Nationalism can be just as dangerous as any of the other -isms that we all fear.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patsfan56 View Post
    You can't force people to swear to anything legally. Its swear or affirm, and the first oath is almost a direct quote from the enlistment oath, which is also "swear or affirm". Affirm has to e included. Both indicate the person's promise to do their duty as citizens. Both are essentially the same.

    Ergo, if no one had an issue with teh state of Vermont forcing every citizen to take its oath, they can't double back now on this, given affirm is in the language. If not, its a clear violation of separation of church and state, and isn't worthy of consideration.
    I guess you can keep acting like these are the same thing, but I don't know why you would. It's pointless. They're clearly not.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by waveycrockett View Post
    If Texas passed a law that said "I like to lick monkey nuts" in order for you to obtain a diploma you would be cool with that?
    being required to say "i like to lick monkey nuts" is a little different than pledging your allegiance to a country that has provided you with the condition, education, safety, security, and the freedom to pursuit whatever your heart desire. i'm all for religious tolerance but as all freedoms, the line gotta be drawn somewhere. if your religion forbids you from pledging your allegiance to your country, maybe you should stop being a hypocrite and stop taking advantage of all the things this country provides you. i suggest you take your religion to a place currently experiencing anarchy (Sudan maybe) where you can keep your conscious clean.
    Quote Originally Posted by lol, please View Post
    1. Thunder
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    Quote Originally Posted by lol, please View Post

    I already have that scrizzguap on the Dubs winning a 'ship.
    Sincerely,
    delusional Warriors fan

    Quote Originally Posted by COOLbeans View Post
    What do you do for a living because I guarantee it's not in academics or psychology?

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