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  1. #31
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    theses 'issues with lowry' probably aren't that hard to speculate about. He was brought in with the expectation he'd be the starting PG, the same role he was denied in Houston that caused friction between him and the team. Well, he's not starting now, and if I were him, I'd be pissed too.

    The simple fact is that Lowry, when given time has not run the team as efficiently as Jose. Whether it's because of a lack of time to allow for chemistry and on-court familiarity, or the fact his 'attacking PG' style doesn't gel as well with a team like the raptors who's lack of star power means our offense has to distribute the ball more is irrelevant. It seems like the guys upstairs are wavering on Lowry because of the lack of results.

    Lowry may be the more athletic, the better defensive, and more of an individual threat on offense, making us to believe [or even accept] he's the better player, but sometimes the better player isn't the best fit. We don't need our PG to 'lead our team to respectability', we don't need an all star PG any more than we need an all star SG, or and all star C. The raptors need A STAR [maybe 2]. What position(s) it comes from is irrelevant. Lowry hasn't proven to be that star, and worse, looks like a bad fit with the rest of our roster so far, so management's looking to move him. And I don't see a problem with that. At least he's being moved early instead of watching his trade value drop completely a la Andrea Bargnani.

    The negativity towards this team never fails to amaze me. This team/franchise is not 'in shambles'. We're not a contending team, but we're young, the majority of the guys in the locker room like each other and play hard every night. Young teams give you fits with inconsistent play and the inability to close out tight games, but they're getting their lumps this year and look far better than last season doing so. We're still playing well over .500 ball since the start of December, even without a 'star', the Primo Pasta fiasco, and now our PG dilemma. And yes, a lot of it's been with an easy schedule, but during that stretch, we did exactly what we were expected to do, and you can't look down at our team for winning those games.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sly Guy View Post
    theses 'issues with lowry' probably aren't that hard to speculate about. He was brought in with the expectation he'd be the starting PG, the same role he was denied in Houston that caused friction between him and the team. Well, he's not starting now, and if I were him, I'd be pissed too.

    The simple fact is that Lowry, when given time has not run the team as efficiently as Jose. Whether it's because of a lack of time to allow for chemistry and on-court familiarity, or the fact his 'attacking PG' style doesn't gel as well with a team like the raptors who's lack of star power means our offense has to distribute the ball more is irrelevant. It seems like the guys upstairs are wavering on Lowry because of the lack of results.

    Lowry may be the more athletic, the better defensive, and more of an individual threat on offense, making us to believe [or even accept] he's the better player, but sometimes the better player isn't the best fit. We don't need our PG to 'lead our team to respectability', we don't need an all star PG any more than we need an all star SG, or and all star C. The raptors need A STAR [maybe 2]. What position(s) it comes from is irrelevant. Lowry hasn't proven to be that star, and worse, looks like a bad fit with the rest of our roster so far, so management's looking to move him. And I don't see a problem with that. At least he's being moved early instead of watching his trade value drop completely a la Andrea Bargnani.

    The negativity towards this team never fails to amaze me. This team/franchise is not 'in shambles'. We're not a contending team, but we're young, the majority of the guys in the locker room like each other and play hard every night. Young teams give you fits with inconsistent play and the inability to close out tight games, but they're getting their lumps this year and look far better than last season doing so. We're still playing well over .500 ball since the start of December, even without a 'star', the Primo Pasta fiasco, and now our PG dilemma. And yes, a lot of it's been with an easy schedule, but during that stretch, we did exactly what we were expected to do, and you can't look down at our team for winning those games.
    good post.

    Move Lowry to another team at the deadline so they have a chance at re-signing him this halloween instead of waiting til the offseason and having an 'expiring' contract on our roster.
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  3. #33
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    I don't know if it's funny or sad of how Raptors management treats it's players and rotations. Because let's face it, half of this is coming down from BC. But anyways, why don't we just give Lowry 36 minutes a game and see whether he can lead this team or not. Doesn't make sense to not give him a real chance. As for the chemistry bit, it's not something you can force. A lot of times chemistry develops just from players playing together. If we give him more time, there is also more likelihood of better chemistry developing between him and the rest of the players.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by kenzo400 View Post
    I don't know if it's funny or sad of how Raptors management treats it's players and rotations. Because let's face it, half of this is coming down from BC. But anyways, why don't we just give Lowry 36 minutes a game and see whether he can lead this team or not. Doesn't make sense to not give him a real chance. As for the chemistry bit, it's not something you can force. A lot of times chemistry develops just from players playing together. If we give him more time, there is also more likelihood of better chemistry developing between him and the rest of the players.
    Well, he was kind of gifted the starting role when he came over from Houston right away and got free reign, that didn't work out very well. He reminds me of a more polished version of Bayless in his style of play. In his current role he has to earn his minutes by making smart decisions, something that he struggles with right now.
    Raptors Franchise Checklist:
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  5. #35
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    You don't need an allstar point guard to compete. Just someone that can hold down that position. But the thing with Lowry I would be pissed at myself not the situation. You should be starting over Jose. But your not. Why?, because Jose is out playing you. If I were him I would go off when I come in from the bench. Your not going to be giving the position go and take it. Jose was giving it when Lowry got injured but then he took it. Has Jose even had 3 bad games in a row. Ironic thing is Lowry said he wouldn't of wanted to come here if nash had come here because he wanted to start. Funny thing is he probably would of been starting if Nash was here.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by gwrighter View Post
    Well, he was kind of gifted the starting role when he came over from Houston right away and got free reign, that didn't work out very well. He reminds me of a more polished version of Bayless in his style of play. In his current role he has to earn his minutes by making smart decisions, something that he struggles with right now.
    He was gifted that role for about four games. It takes time for players to gel together, especially the leading point guard with everyone else. Since we are not going anywhere this season, I don't see the harm in just playing him as our starting guard throughout the year. It's funny how Casey's rotations seem to indicate that we are actually deep in contention and he just "cannot" give in to uncertainty because it could harm our record lol

  7. #37
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    I didn't know he was ever off the trade block.

  8. #38
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    I'd love to just keep them both for the long term **** there ego's who plays better get more minutes pretty simple. It's our teams biggest strength right now and would always provide depth at the PG position for two guys who seem to always miss time during a season.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by kenzo400 View Post
    I don't know if it's funny or sad of how Raptors management treats it's players and rotations. Because let's face it, half of this is coming down from BC. But anyways, why don't we just give Lowry 36 minutes a game and see whether he can lead this team or not. Doesn't make sense to not give him a real chance. As for the chemistry bit, it's not something you can force. A lot of times chemistry develops just from players playing together. If we give him more time, there is also more likelihood of better chemistry developing between him and the rest of the players.
    from what I've been seeing of recent games, jose's started the game, but lowry's had the heavy minutes in the second half. To me it seemed as I watched the games that they wanted to evaluate the effectiveness of both guys against the same opponent with as many minutes as they could give them. And what have we been seeing? Raptors lead at half, only to give it up coming down the stretch. Chemistry does take time, and I can appreciate that, but the coaching staff / front office people might be starting to feel that Lowry's style of play isn't as good of a fit. Hence why this news was probably leaked. Not to mention Casey screaming at Lowry to 'make the right basketball play', or his teammates calling him out with Andrea earlier in the season for selfish play.

  10. 01-26-2013, 12:18 PM

  11. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sly Guy View Post
    theses 'issues with lowry' probably aren't that hard to speculate about. He was brought in with the expectation he'd be the starting PG, the same role he was denied in Houston that caused friction between him and the team. Well, he's not starting now, and if I were him, I'd be pissed too.

    The simple fact is that Lowry, when given time has not run the team as efficiently as Jose. Whether it's because of a lack of time to allow for chemistry and on-court familiarity, or the fact his 'attacking PG' style doesn't gel as well with a team like the raptors who's lack of star power means our offense has to distribute the ball more is irrelevant. It seems like the guys upstairs are wavering on Lowry because of the lack of results.

    Lowry may be the more athletic, the better defensive, and more of an individual threat on offense, making us to believe [or even accept] he's the better player, but sometimes the better player isn't the best fit. We don't need our PG to 'lead our team to respectability', we don't need an all star PG any more than we need an all star SG, or and all star C. The raptors need A STAR [maybe 2]. What position(s) it comes from is irrelevant. Lowry hasn't proven to be that star, and worse, looks like a bad fit with the rest of our roster so far, so management's looking to move him. And I don't see a problem with that. At least he's being moved early instead of watching his trade value drop completely a la Andrea Bargnani.

    The negativity towards this team never fails to amaze me. This team/franchise is not 'in shambles'. We're not a contending team, but we're young, the majority of the guys in the locker room like each other and play hard every night. Young teams give you fits with inconsistent play and the inability to close out tight games, but they're getting their lumps this year and look far better than last season doing so. We're still playing well over .500 ball since the start of December, even without a 'star', the Primo Pasta fiasco, and now our PG dilemma. And yes, a lot of it's been with an easy schedule, but during that stretch, we did exactly what we were expected to do, and you can't look down at our team for winning those games.
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  12. #41
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    I'll be really pissed if we trade Lowry for Gasol. We have enough bigs with Davis, Amir, Bargs, Jonas. I'm liking the way Davis and Amir have been playing. If it's a trade like Bargs for Pau, then sure, but not for Lowry.

  13. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sly Guy View Post
    lowry traded, ok I can deal with that.
    lowry for gasol? no thanks.


    Lowry's too good a talent at too good a bargain to be traded for gasol. Besides, the salaries aren't even close, other players would have to be thrown in, and we'd still be getting just gasol. I'd want no part of that trade.
    Agree. General idea should be basically swapping a 2013 pick for a 2014 pick even if it's latter in the draft considering the strength of both.

    Something along the lines of Lowry to Chicago, for Charlotte's pick. Charlotte is set to retain their pick in 2013, it's top 10 protected in 2014, top 8 2015, unprotected 2016.

    (With Rose set to return after the allstar break, I'm not sure if Chicago would have any interest in Lowry).. this is basically the idea.


    Raptors look as though they will also yield their pick this season, which would allow them to package their own plus an attained pick to move up in the draft if needed. To a tanking team above them in the lotto, a zero rated pick would be more desired in trade, than Lowry.

    Raptors future SF is in the 2014 draft unless they luck into a top 3 pick in this, 2013.

  14. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sly Guy View Post
    from what I've been seeing of recent games, jose's started the game, but lowry's had the heavy minutes in the second half. To me it seemed as I watched the games that they wanted to evaluate the effectiveness of both guys against the same opponent with as many minutes as they could give them. And what have we been seeing? Raptors lead at half, only to give it up coming down the stretch. Chemistry does take time, and I can appreciate that, but the coaching staff / front office people might be starting to feel that Lowry's style of play isn't as good of a fit. Hence why this news was probably leaked. Not to mention Casey screaming at Lowry to 'make the right basketball play', or his teammates calling him out with Andrea earlier in the season for selfish play.
    The problem is that it's not a fair comparison. Calderon has been on this team for years and has had time to develop chemistry and understanding with the rest of the players. Lowry hasn't had that same opportunity. From what I have seen this year is that Calderon definitely runs the team better, but the most impressive games he has had so far has been against sub 500 teams, and long term Calderon is going to hurt us more than help us.

    Lowry might not be the best fit but we have to give him more of a chance. He has already shown that he is superior in many ways to Calderon (defense, drive to basket etc..) If he ever develops a better passing game, it will take some time. It's not going to happen in 5 or 6 games.

  15. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by kenzo400 View Post
    The problem is that it's not a fair comparison. Calderon has been on this team for years and has had time to develop chemistry and understanding with the rest of the players. Lowry hasn't had that same opportunity. From what I have seen this year is that Calderon definitely runs the team better, but the most impressive games he has had so far has been against sub 500 teams, and long term Calderon is going to hurt us more than help us.

    Lowry might not be the best fit but we have to give him more of a chance. He has already shown that he is superior in many ways to Calderon (defense, drive to basket etc..) If he ever develops a better passing game, it will take some time. It's not going to happen in 5 or 6 games.
    Kenzo, I agree with you, a half season of analysis is not enough. Even as someone who's been markedly in Calderon's camp since the season began, I think it's still too early to pull the plug. But it's more than just lowry vs calderon. The rest of the locker room is complaining about him too. The coach has called him out for his decisions on the floor. Clearly it's more than just 'he's not been given a fair shake'. You've gotta factor in all the other players. You can't keep him and risk disrupting what's already here. After all, this is BC's attempt at growing a team instead of swapping players for quick fixes, so he's gotta stick to that plan. Management is starting to lean in favor of Calderon instead of Lowry, right or wrong, Calderon might just survive another PG upgrade.

  16. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by kenzo400 View Post
    The problem is that it's not a fair comparison. Calderon has been on this team for years and has had time to develop chemistry and understanding with the rest of the players. Lowry hasn't had that same opportunity. From what I have seen this year is that Calderon definitely runs the team better, but the most impressive games he has had so far has been against sub 500 teams, and long term Calderon is going to hurt us more than help us.

    Lowry might not be the best fit but we have to give him more of a chance. He has already shown that he is superior in many ways to Calderon (defense, drive to basket etc..) If he ever develops a better passing game, it will take some time. It's not going to happen in 5 or 6 games.
    It seems like there is a coach-ability issue involved here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sly Guy View Post
    Kenzo, I agree with you, a half season of analysis is not enough. Even as someone who's been markedly in Calderon's camp since the season began, I think it's still too early to pull the plug. But it's more than just lowry vs calderon. The rest of the locker room is complaining about him too. The coach has called him out for his decisions on the floor. Clearly it's more than just 'he's not been given a fair shake'. Management is starting to lean in favor of Calderon instead of Lowry, right or wrong, Calderon might just survive another PG upgrade.
    They seem to want value for their spent first round pick, so if it means flipping Lowry so be it.

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