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Thread: Spags.

  1. #16
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    Tweet Giants players and writers to bring Spags back.. No joke lol..

  2. #17
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    First and foremost what has to be understood is that our current defense is very aggressive especially in the secondary. Corey Webster and Antrel Rolle got burned a lot with double moves cause they were so aggressive on the first move. This works great when the pass rush is getting home but last year...it wasn't.

    The primary difference between Spags and Fewell is Spags relies on the pass rushers getting home even more than Fewell who relies on turnovers.

    Spags is very creative at calling blitzes, especially inside blitzes as he did in the 2007 Superbowl. I think it was one of the main reasons he was hired in New Orleans, who was very used to blitzing under Greg Williams, but when a blitz doesn't work it leaves a defense vulnerable to big plays which ended up happening all year long. He did not adjust well and his players did not adjust well. What ever other excuses the team had and there were many, Spags was more a part of the problems that plagued the Saints than he was the solution.

    Fewell is better at disguising coverages, switching between man to man and zone than Spags who uses primarily man to man. Fewell also like using guys in Joker rolls such as a third safety and Kiwi bouncing between coverage and rushing the QB. This leads to more of a bend but don't break until we get a turnover. It might seem passive but he is aggressively seeking turnovers to get off the field. When was the last time a Giants defender had 8 ints in a season?

    The difference when it comes to defending the run I believe is a direct correlation to the quality of our LBs. Spags had Pierce and Kawika Mitchell. Fewell has Boley who sucks against the run and Kiwi who sucks at LB....both teams had Blackburn.

    I know everybody loves Spags and hates Fewell, but I think we are fine as is and we should continue to grow and get better in Fewell's system. As long as we can get better LB play that is!!!!

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by giantsince69 View Post
    First and foremost what has to be understood is that our current defense is very aggressive especially in the secondary. Corey Webster and Antrel Rolle got burned a lot with double moves cause they were so aggressive on the first move. This works great when the pass rush is getting home but last year...it wasn't.

    The primary difference between Spags and Fewell is Spags relies on the pass rushers getting home even more than Fewell who relies on turnovers.

    Spags is very creative at calling blitzes, especially inside blitzes as he did in the 2007 Superbowl. I think it was one of the main reasons he was hired in New Orleans, who was very used to blitzing under Greg Williams, but when a blitz doesn't work it leaves a defense vulnerable to big plays which ended up happening all year long. He did not adjust well and his players did not adjust well. What ever other excuses the team had and there were many, Spags was more a part of the problems that plagued the Saints than he was the solution.

    Fewell is better at disguising coverages, switching between man to man and zone than Spags who uses primarily man to man. Fewell also like using guys in Joker rolls such as a third safety and Kiwi bouncing between coverage and rushing the QB. This leads to more of a bend but don't break until we get a turnover. It might seem passive but he is aggressively seeking turnovers to get off the field. When was the last time a Giants defender had 8 ints in a season?

    The difference when it comes to defending the run I believe is a direct correlation to the quality of our LBs. Spags had Pierce and Kawika Mitchell. Fewell has Boley who sucks against the run and Kiwi who sucks at LB....both teams had Blackburn.

    I know everybody loves Spags and hates Fewell, but I think we are fine as is and we should continue to grow and get better in Fewell's system. As long as we can get better LB play that is!!!!
    then are you suggesting that the Giants should use pick #19 on a LB?
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  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by cowboyskilla View Post
    then are you suggesting that the Giants should use pick #19 on a LB?
    We Kinda need upgrades at both the Mike and Sam spots. I not saying we go LB in the first unless that is the best value but we do need an early pick spent on a LB (First, second or third).

    Myself I like the idea of converting Dion Jordan from Oregon into a SAM the best. He may still be available when the Giants pick at 19. If not Chance Warmack would be a great value as well, it really depends on who is available.

    Keith Rivers may be the answer at Sam but we cannot depend on him staying healthy...he just never has so the FO needs to look into a cheap veteran option as well.

    Which ever way it goes the Giants MUST address their LBs needs this year.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by giantsince69 View Post
    We Kinda need upgrades at both the Mike and Sam spots. I not saying we go LB in the first unless that is the best value but we do need an early pick spent on a LB (First, second or third).

    Myself I like the idea of converting Dion Jordan from Oregon into a SAM the best. He may still be available when the Giants pick at 19. If not Chance Warmack would be a great value as well, it really depends on who is available.

    Keith Rivers may be the answer at Sam but we cannot depend on him staying healthy...he just never has so the FO needs to look into a cheap veteran option as well.

    Which ever way it goes the Giants MUST address their LBs needs this year.
    We have. Horrible run d and I agree we need to upgrade our MLB at least and is like some of these weak side olbs plus secondary , a power back and who knows .

    We have canty coming back , Joseph and Austin have that pressure on them preform or ur a bust season so maybe they step up , tuck and our lbs and even our safety play for the run game needs to step up..

    With healthy DTS,a solid lb pick and CB with safeties some how (there's FA our own fas and draft picks) we can fix it right up.

    Also ..spags had our best D unit ..fewell hasn't but has JPP ..really that's it and rolle if u want ..he didn't have any CBS , Cwebb declining , tuck never preforming for him , osi being injured and older , lack of DTS (coifed and Robbins vs canty and whoever ..spags had it better).

    Spags had the better players ..

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by giantsince69 View Post
    We Kinda need upgrades at both the Mike and Sam spots. I not saying we go LB in the first unless that is the best value but we do need an early pick spent on a LB (First, second or third).

    Myself I like the idea of converting Dion Jordan from Oregon into a SAM the best. He may still be available when the Giants pick at 19. If not Chance Warmack would be a great value as well, it really depends on who is available.

    Keith Rivers may be the answer at Sam but we cannot depend on him staying healthy...he just never has so the FO needs to look into a cheap veteran option as well.

    Which ever way it goes the Giants MUST address their LBs needs this year.
    Thought everyone loved kiwi at Sam ?

  7. #22
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    I'm in denial....I'm in support of Fewell and Gilbride because we won the SB and deserves one more year to win another chip.......BUT I KNOW we need a change. It would be a gutsy move but definately not a bad move to bring Spags back.

    The only reason I would think that Spags won't be pursued is that change is inevitable after next season.....a complete overhaul.

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    I think that we need to some better LB's. the whole LB core needs reshuffling.We need linebackers that can defend the run and cover the tight end.i also think we need to move kiwi back to DE.In this draft, i would try to get as many linebackers as i can.I'm not so familiar with college football so i couldn't tell you who i would target but if there is a good linebacker that fits well the giants i would try to draft him.

  9. #24
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    Compare the giants best year # wise on D ..then look at the O #s like time of possession and ppg under spags..do the same for fewell and then look at the roster and tell me who did more with less .

    We all should love both or at least like both ..idk bout kildrive tho (some1 mentioned him). He's uhm consistently predictable and boring which is ok but has no guts and if not for audibles he'd be fired in my opinion .

  10. #25
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    Why would we draft a bunch of LB's? We have some young promising LB's and by drafting a bunch we're automatically going to have to release some others or likely the ones we draft.

    We have to move Kiwi back to the line imo. Him opposite JPP would give defenses fits with Linval and Canty in the middle. Both can get to the QB and defend the run. Rotating in Tuck along the line is what needs to be done to keep him "healthy". Mix in Tracy/Ojomo and a vet in the middle like Rogers and we should be okay. I'm all for drafting a DT/DE though depending on what the guys think of Tracy/Ojomo/Kuhn/etc...

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMenFanSince90 View Post
    Why would we draft a bunch of LB's? We have some young promising LB's and by drafting a bunch we're automatically going to have to release some others or likely the ones we draft.

    We have to move Kiwi back to the line imo. Him opposite JPP would give defenses fits with Linval and Canty in the middle. Both can get to the QB and defend the run. Rotating in Tuck along the line is what needs to be done to keep him "healthy". Mix in Tracy/Ojomo and a vet in the middle like Rogers and we should be okay. I'm all for drafting a DT/DE though depending on what the guys think of Tracy/Ojomo/Kuhn/etc...
    That should be the ideal situation. I'm thinking CB, OL or S (yes, b/c 3 are on the field often). DT is possible but the kid is going to ride the bench.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by KnIckFaN.2883 View Post
    I think that we need to some better LB's. the whole LB core needs reshuffling.We need linebackers that can defend the run and cover the tight end.i also think we need to move kiwi back to DE.In this draft, i would try to get as many linebackers as i can.I'm not so familiar with college football so i couldn't tell you who i would target but if there is a good linebacker that fits well the giants i would try to draft him.

    Small assumption if kiwi can handle the weight gain to sustain a full season at De for us we can then grab 2 lbs in a row if we want as we need a MLB and olb in most ppls minds and if kiwi is a De then we def need a strong side lb.

    Here's some guys to look at ...

    Alec Ogletree- does it all olb looks to be a monster but some ppl have doubts (like I think cowboykilla not sure ) but most ppl think he's the second best LB and a top 25 PROSPECT .. Nice?

    Obviously Jarvis Jenkins ...he'll be gone unless we work something amazing (if we couldn't get Doug Martin 1 pick ahead of us we won't jump ten plus to get anyone )

    We can get Ogletree with our one or ...(AO use to be a safety in high school going into college he's 6-3 4.63 40, 400 meter dash , 4x100 relay and long jump in high school multi sport athlete ..basketball as well..hands? Lol) look him up if coached properly he'll be the next best olb in the league with Jarvis Jenkins .


    Khasheem green an amazing athletically gifted olb who compares to a non bust Ernie sims , freakish athlete ,speed and agile , rips at the ball but still is reliable in the open field for tackles constantly , good timing on blitzes and creates a lot of turnovers , another former safety he can cover fluidly so rush, run stuffing or coverage he can be a stud ..sounds like a better hitting/forced fumbles nicer hands boley at his best minus injuries. He'll go around us in the 2nd at this moment (always. Changes I'm saying ATM ..)

    -Arthur Brown -college MLB -Nfl olb - undersized but really again can cover and play the run very well , quick to read and react gaining him 101 total tackles (MLB) 9.5 for a loss 2 sacks and and int ... Even at his size (its becoming normal at weak side 6ft1 is do able ..very do able ) he gets threw and around blocks ,consistent tackler .
    Should go after green towards the 3rd or even in it depending on who drafts olbs of course.

    -here's a guy Im big on but admit I need to watch more on but have read soooo Fkn much .. They compare him to Von miller to the point of his athleticism , fluidity ect. But he won't hit that peak as he can pass rush but fits the 4-3 weak side olb perfectly with good coverage skills , speed , can line up OVER SlOT , great in pursuit (something we lacked wether it was heart or not it'd be welcomed )
    PROBELM? Simple he relies too much on his athleticism to get by Olinemen instead of blasting them basically but let's be honest 6-1 guys aren't usually beating up Olinemen ..

    He's noted as the best cover olb I. The draft with amazing athleticism added I like that for an almost 4th rounder .

    Chase Thomas sounds a lot like a little more athletic but belongs in 3-4 Ilb chase Blackburn but bigger too ..overachiever but solid run stuffer .

    - Another inspteresting 4th rounder (more likely to be available in the 4th than the others ) - Trevardo Williams - runs a 4.52 , a,along PASS RUSHER in the UCONN D WHERE HE CAN TRANSLATE TO OLB EASILY with his speed , flexibility and great football instincts is sepaid to easily shift to olb weak side ..sounds like a better sintim maybe we use him like we were going to sintim ? Another pass rusher on the field who can play olb while kiwi moves back to de would be nice ..

    - Ok here's one 6ft2 4.49 40 time , projected pick 117 (my #s been good to us oddly lol sorry anyway) Zaviar Gooden - olb- Missouri - another former safety but he's physical , fiesty (not my word lol) looks to be excellent in coverage and can get into the oline and RBs as he loves contact and can tackle ...PROJECTS TO BE A SEAN WEATHERSPOON TYPE OLB ..read into comparisons however u wish but to me that means he will remind you of ..I think he can be better honestly and he's a late pick come on lol!

    -6ft1 4.64 40 , 11" hands , played multiplier positions never looking lost in the huskies hybrid college D he played on and off the line , obviously a 6-1 guy won't be a DE unless he's bigger (weighs 240lbs ) , quick reads , quick closing speed , good vs run or coverage , good in space and best of all has a VERY VISIBKE COMPETITIVE DRIVE TO BE GREAT AND WIN EVERY PLAY AND is a VERY EXPLOSIVE HITTER despite his size which we've seen with tons of players .
    Late 4th as of now .. Sounds like what we need of we miss out on one of these other guys ,,he's versatile , fast ,can hit hard and everything else they all seemingly played everything on D lol.

    Later rounds pough , mccray(little bit of a project) , meshak Williams if you can deal with him at MLB at maybe 6-2 245.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYSPORTS98 View Post
    That should be the ideal situation. I'm thinking CB, OL or S (yes, b/c 3 are on the field often). DT is possible but the kid is going to ride the bench.
    Disagree , if we get a DT he'll be rotated with canty if he's good enough but at least Austin and Joseph to keep them fresh and maybe gains role to start depending on who were talking about .

    As for draft prospects its always hard every year we have so many needs and JR relies on his last draft to step up but Hosley isn't to me personally a guy you want playing in every down am I wrong ? ( I like Sean smith and bigger stronger CBS though I love Hosley he seems to be the perfect slot/nickel whatever CB..literally looks the part and plays exactly how you'd want it to be played ..speed and athletic with agility and decent reads , nice hands ect.) .

    I'm afraid we draft a DE ..EZ Ansah was a guy I wanted but I am starting to feel we should lean more for

    One of the OLBs. , pray that OT falls to us in the 1st and its actually a sexy pick lol Lane Johnson he's a better skilled joe staley basically (stronger , athletic like him whose probably one of the most athletic OTs in the game and yes it helps ).

    If lanes gone I'd like to know kiwis at DE before we pass on EZ Ansah or Okafor ... If Ogletree is there I want him .

    CBS like banks and Rhodes are worth a first as well being listed over 6ft is what I want at CB and cwebbs leaving we don't know what prince is yet and this would push him .

    Obviously just rotate picks like that and add in an olb anywhere same with cb..trufant to the honey badger and many others can be around till the 4th (bc the others got drafted) to be honest DE feels thin to me where olb , Ilb and DBS are deep ..

    Would love a draft where lane. Falls to us , the 2nd maybe EZ falls or X Rhodes but realistically K green or maybe a safety if we don't bring both KP and Stevie back (Stevie need ago grow KP needs to stay healthy before we don't need another solid guy and there's tons TJ McDonald is my favorite bc he'll go later than Reid , Elam , KV ) .

    Some drafts have us taking ODAY ABOUSHI (OT ) in the 2nd (any opinions? ) ... So 1st would be replace osi or kiwi (if kiwi moves get olb if not get Okafor or EZ )

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMenFanSince90 View Post
    Why would we draft a bunch of LB's? We have some young promising LB's and by drafting a bunch we're automatically going to have to release some others or likely the ones we draft.

    We have to move Kiwi back to the line imo. Him opposite JPP would give defenses fits with Linval and Canty in the middle. Both can get to the QB and defend the run. Rotating in Tuck along the line is what needs to be done to keep him "healthy". Mix in Tracy/Ojomo and a vet in the middle like Rogers and we should be okay. I'm all for drafting a DT/DE though depending on what the guys think of Tracy/Ojomo/Kuhn/etc...
    Besides Williams who else has really showed us any promise? I am a Herzlich supporter and saw that he was all over the field in camp but that's camp.. Everytime he gets a shot he doesn't play well.. Paysinger is a special team guy, I don't see him as a legit LB in this league.

    Canty and Joseph isn't cutting it, we need a a big DT that can take up space.

    There's just so many needs on this team I honestly don't know where to start.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joker117 View Post
    Disagree , if we get a DT he'll be rotated with canty if he's good enough but at least Austin and Joseph to keep them fresh and maybe gains role to start depending on who were talking about .

    Of course he's going to rotate in but he's primarily going to ride the bench.


    I'm afraid we draft a DE ..EZ Ansah was a guy I wanted but I am starting to feel we should lean more for

    Doubt he gets past the Giants if there


    One of the OLBs. , pray that OT falls to us in the 1st and its actually a sexy pick lol Lane Johnson he's a better skilled joe staley basically (stronger , athletic like him whose probably one of the most athletic OTs in the game and yes it helps ).


    The Giants have been flirting with disaster on the OL for years now. Diehl is basically McKennzie (IMO) and could have retired after the bowl. If the Giants ignore OL again, they're in deep shiat if Snee retires next offseason.



    If lanes gone I'd like to know kiwis at DE before we pass on EZ Ansah or Okafor ... If Ogletree is there I want him .

    GAP control is everthing and that's how the Giants won in 2011 and that's why the 49ers are playing the Ravens. Unless it's a CB, I'm not bothering with a guy who doesn't line up with his hand on the ground.

    CBS like banks and Rhodes are worth a first as well being listed over 6ft is what I want at CB and cwebbs leaving we don't know what prince is yet and this would push him .

    IMO, Prince is just fine. Depth is needed and perhaps a starter with Webster likely gone in 2014.

    Some drafts have us taking ODAY ABOUSHI (OT ) in the 2nd (any opinions? ) ... So 1st would be replace osi or kiwi (if kiwi moves get olb if not get Okafor or EZ )
    Doubt Kiwi sees another day at LB. The kid is a DE.

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