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  1. #76
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    There is no possible way that Flores is slower than Duda. No way. He played SS, so he definitely has to be a better athlete.

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Claymation View Post
    It's only premature because Flores is in AA.

    We know you have said you wouldn't mind seeing Flores as an outfielder, but considering Flores makes Duda look spry it would be a foolish to try him there.

    Flores at the age of 20 hit 18 big flies last year and posted a healthy ops of .855 in Binghamton last year.

    Murphy on the other hand is nothing more than an average ball player.
    Precisely the point. At some point in the next year or so it might make a lot of sense to trade Murphy to make room for Flores. But not this year.
    "Mr. Martin Tanner, Baritone, of Dayton, Ohio made his Town Hall debut last night. He came well prepared, but unfortunately his presentation was not up to contemporary professional standards. His voice lacks the range of tonal color necessary to make it consistently interesting. Full time consideration of another endeavor might be in order."

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by NY_Heartbreak View Post
    Average overall. There could be a misconception there. Ignore his defense and Murphy is definitely a top 10 second baseman. I the problem is you can't just ignore his defense.

    Many people think you can though. Murphy is actually worse than he looks on the eye test, as he's so far back he gets to next to nothing.

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna28 View Post
    There is no possible way that Flores is slower than Duda. No way. He played SS, so he definitely has to be a better athlete.
    I'm with you here. Its hard to believe he's slower then Duda. Ive never seen him run but every scouting report I have seen makes him sound like a 70 year old fat grandma.

    All the negatives on his speed must be based off of coming up a SS. He's got an athletic build and isn't very big. I can't understand why he could be as slow as scouts make him sound.


    Presenting the 2013 New York Mets Outfield.

  5. #80
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    Make no mistake about it, Flores is certainly very slow. But he doesn't have 20 speed on the 20-80 scale like some say. He's a 30 guy in my eyes, Duda is a 20 speed guy.

  6. #81
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    Why not trade Flores?

    Have you seen Flores run?

    He is that slow.

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna28 View Post
    Make no mistake about it, Flores is certainly very slow. But he doesn't have 20 speed on the 20-80 scale like some say. He's a 30 guy in my eyes, Duda is a 20 speed guy.
    I'm sure he's slow. But slow guys have often played the outfield. It's not ideal but they've played there. A few notables: Greg Luzinsky for the 1980 Champion Phillies, Hall of Famer Willie Stargell for the Pirates of the 1970s, one of my all time favorite Mets, Rusty Staub, also in the 70s; more recently Manny Ramierz of the Indians and Red Sox.

    The key isn't how slow they are but whether they hit well enough for the outfield. With the Mets outfield being what it is at the moment, it's silly to not at least see what Flores looks like in the outfield during ST.

    He's 21 year old without a position on a team that has a lot of open positions You do the math.
    "Mr. Martin Tanner, Baritone, of Dayton, Ohio made his Town Hall debut last night. He came well prepared, but unfortunately his presentation was not up to contemporary professional standards. His voice lacks the range of tonal color necessary to make it consistently interesting. Full time consideration of another endeavor might be in order."

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sick Of It All View Post
    Have you seen Flores run?

    He is that slow.
    You know what then? If he's so slow that he can't play a corner outfield position, then he's too slow to play second base too. If he's too slow to play a corner, the only positions available for him are first base and DH.

    Let's just trade him to an AL team now already.
    "Mr. Martin Tanner, Baritone, of Dayton, Ohio made his Town Hall debut last night. He came well prepared, but unfortunately his presentation was not up to contemporary professional standards. His voice lacks the range of tonal color necessary to make it consistently interesting. Full time consideration of another endeavor might be in order."

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanofclendennon View Post
    You know what then? If he's so slow that he can't play a corner outfield position, then he's too slow to play second base too. If he's too slow to play a corner, the only positions available for him are first base and DH.

    Let's just trade him to an AL team now already.
    He did come up as a SS so they have to have some confidence in his athletic ability and his ability to play up the middle.

    I think he might be able to play 2nd but i doubt he can be adequate defensively in either corner OF spot.

    Either way, the PCL is going to drastically affect his value because at least on perception if he tears it up there teams are gonna come crawling for a 3rd baseman with power (if he doesn't work out at 2nd).

    I would wait till this season or after this season to maximize his possible value.

    Right now, Flores would be part of piecing a deal for a quality player. Fast forward 6 months and he could be possibly the centerpiece.
    Last edited by metswon69; 01-30-2013 at 11:43 AM.

  10. #85
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    You could scan every single team in the MLB and find a "slow" of that's played the past 2/3 years

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanofclendennon View Post
    You know what then? If he's so slow that he can't play a corner outfield position, then he's too slow to play second base too. If he's too slow to play a corner, the only positions available for him are first base and DH.

    Let's just trade him to an AL team now already.
    That's what the debate is about, he will definitely lack range at 2nd. but so didn't Kent and Uggla.

    He should easily play 3rd because he has quick reactions, soft hands and a solid arm.


    "You don't know how to drink. Your whole generation, you drink for the wrong reasons. My generation, we drink because it's good, because it feels better than unbuttoning your collar, because we deserve it. We drink because it's what men do."

  12. #87
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    My Take on Wilmer Flores


    Here is my take in the 2013 Baseball Prospect Book on New York Mets prospect Wilmer Flores. I was getting doubtful about him entering 2012 but I am very impressed with the improvement he showed with the bat.

    Wilmer Flores, 3B-2B, New York Mets
    Bats: R Throws: R HT: 6-3 WT: 190 DOB: August 6, 1991
    (The book will have stats going back 2-3 years)
    2009: Grade B+; 2010: Grade B+; 2011: Grade B+; 2012: Grade B-

    Mets fans have been hearing about Wilmer Flores since the days of Tom Seaver and Jerry Koosman, or so it seems anyway. Despite all the hype and attention he's received, he is still only 21 years old. Flores has always made contact well, but he's gradually improved his feel for the strike zone and began maturing into his power last year. Although scouts still wonder exactly how many home runs he'll hit, there's no question that he's made real progress. Flores moved off shortstop last year and performed adequately at both third base and second base. His arm works just fine at third and he doesn't make an excessive number of errors, but his range is mediocre. His bat profiles better at second base, but he probably lacks the requisite quickness to play there long-term. He doesn't run well enough to be an attractive outfield option, but will he hit enough to play first base? Obviously, there are still a lot of questions about Flores, but his stock with the bat has definitely rebounded. Grade B+.
    http://www.minorleagueball.com/2013/...couting-report
    Sickels on Flores.


    "You don't know how to drink. Your whole generation, you drink for the wrong reasons. My generation, we drink because it's good, because it feels better than unbuttoning your collar, because we deserve it. We drink because it's what men do."

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Claymation View Post
    That's what the debate is about, he will definitely lack range at 2nd. but so didn't Kent and Uggla.

    He should easily play 3rd because he has quick reactions, soft hands and a solid arm.
    I always thought Kent got a bad rap as a second baseman with the Mets. I always thought he looked like a natural second baseman, even back then. His play with the Giants a few years later bore me out.

    Uggla is just a disaster at second base. But he never struck me as being abnormally slow either, so as bad as Uggla's hands and arm are, he probably gets to a lot of balls Flores wouldnt.

    A second baseman has to cover a lot more ground than a third baseman. And David Wright is the third baseman, and will be for a long time to come last i checked so we can forget about the left side infield corner for Flores.

    A second baseman needs some degree of speed. Daniel Murphy's inability to play outfield had nothing to do with his speed. It was his complete incompetence of being able to track fly balls. He is not abnormally slow.

    If Flores is indeed abnormally slow, he might belong less in the second base conversation than he does the outfield conversation.

    And David Wright is the third baseman.

    And Ike Davis looks pretty comfortable as the first baseman.

    So that leaves us with Designated Hitter.

    Are you sure you don't want to let him take a few innings in the outfield during ST before we trade him to an AL team?
    Last edited by fanofclendennon; 01-30-2013 at 12:19 PM.
    "Mr. Martin Tanner, Baritone, of Dayton, Ohio made his Town Hall debut last night. He came well prepared, but unfortunately his presentation was not up to contemporary professional standards. His voice lacks the range of tonal color necessary to make it consistently interesting. Full time consideration of another endeavor might be in order."

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanofclendennon View Post
    A second base baseman has to cover a lot more ground than a third baseman. And David Wright is the third baseman, and will be for a long time to come last i checked so we can forget about the left side infield corner for Flores.

    A second baseman needs some degree of speed. Daniel Murphy's inability to play outfield had nothing to do with his speed. It was his complete incompetence of being able to track fly balls. He is not abnormally slow.

    If Flores is indeed abnormally slow, he might belong less in the second base conversation than he does the outfield conversation.

    And David Wright is the third baseman.

    And Ike Davis looks pretty comfortable as the first baseman.

    So that leaves us with Designated Hitter.

    Are you sure you don't want to let him take a few innings in the outfield during ST before we trade him to an AL team?
    So you are saying that the Mets have a 3rd baseman and a 1st baseman.
    I had no idea.

    If Flores can't play 2nd he'll get traded.
    He's a 3rd baseman, he has the arm and a quick 1st step. That's really all you need besides soft hands.
    And since you say he's blocked by this Wright fella then he would be traded. It doesn't have to be an AL team because NL teams use a 3rd baseman.
    It really is that simple.


    "You don't know how to drink. Your whole generation, you drink for the wrong reasons. My generation, we drink because it's good, because it feels better than unbuttoning your collar, because we deserve it. We drink because it's what men do."

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Claymation View Post
    So you are saying that the Mets have a 3rd baseman and a 1st baseman.
    I had no idea.

    If Flores can't play 2nd he'll get traded.
    He's a 3rd baseman, he has the arm and a quick 1st step. That's really all you need besides soft hands.
    And since you say he's blocked by this Wright fella then he would be traded. It doesn't have to be an AL team because NL teams use a 3rd baseman.
    It really is that simple.
    I'm saying there's no need to even bother with him at second. If he's that slow i don't care how quick his first step is. He can't play second base.

    But sure, maybe an NL team wouldn't mind him at third.
    "Mr. Martin Tanner, Baritone, of Dayton, Ohio made his Town Hall debut last night. He came well prepared, but unfortunately his presentation was not up to contemporary professional standards. His voice lacks the range of tonal color necessary to make it consistently interesting. Full time consideration of another endeavor might be in order."

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