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  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrigheyes4MVP View Post
    Fair enough, but I hate that he is a lefty. We need a right handed or switch hitting OFer...CFer or not.
    Who cares? We aren't even that lefty-heavy anymore.

    Our outfield needs replacing anyway if no one steps up next year. Bourn is a proven, quality major league CF.

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrigheyes4MVP View Post
    That is assuming he has one of his good seasons.

    He is a lefty and his lefty/righty splits vary from year to year.

    I don't trust him enough to A) sign him long term or B) lose our first rounder for him.

    And I doubt signing Bourn puts us at a .500 record unless he has a career season.
    If he costs a pick, I don't want him. 4 or 5 years is fair for him, and he just had his best season.

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna28 View Post
    If he costs a pick, I don't want him. 4 or 5 years is fair for him, and he just had his best season.
    Thats what worries me. He just had his best season and is a Scott Boras client.

    I still think he has flaws in his game and a regression could occur.

    I get that you have to take chances on signing FAs long term, but I don't think Bourne is the right player to take that chance on.
    DUDA


    Quote Originally Posted by VendettaRed07 View Post
    noah is gonna be a beast man.

    with him and harvey, its like were gonna have Goku and Vegetta in the same rotation

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna28 View Post
    Who cares? We aren't even that lefty-heavy anymore.

    Our outfield needs replacing anyway if no one steps up next year. Bourn is a proven, quality major league CF.
    What are you talking about?

    We are still very lefty-heavy. We lost Hairston and gained d'Arnaud and Cowgill. That doesn't solve the lefty-heavy issue.

    Our only right handed bats projected to be in our starting lineup are Wright, Tejada, d'Arnaud, and possibly a completely unproven Cowgill in some sort of platoon.

    Out of those guys...which one of them is proven to be a power hitting righty MLB hitter. Wright is the only guy and TDA could possibly turn into that one day. Thats it.

    If we are going to make a long term investment to an OFer...I'd prefer it to be a righty.
    DUDA


    Quote Originally Posted by VendettaRed07 View Post
    noah is gonna be a beast man.

    with him and harvey, its like were gonna have Goku and Vegetta in the same rotation

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrigheyes4MVP View Post
    Thats what worries me. He just had his best season and is a Scott Boras client.

    I still think he has flaws in his game and a regression could occur.

    I get that you have to take chances on signing FAs long term, but I don't think Bourne is the right player to take that chance on.
    Bourn last 4 years:

    2009- 4.9 fWAR
    2010- 4.7 fWAR
    2011- 4.1 fWAR
    2012- 6.4 fWAR

    His OBP has been in the .341-.354 range with 42-61 SB each year. In Citi Field, he would be perfect. If he regresses back to a 4 fWAR player, so be it. That's still very good.

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrigheyes4MVP View Post
    What are you talking about?

    We are still very lefty-heavy. We lost Hairston and gained d'Arnaud and Cowgill. That doesn't solve the lefty-heavy issue.

    Our only right handed bats projected to be in our starting lineup are Wright, Tejada, d'Arnaud, and possibly a completely unproven Cowgill in some sort of platoon.

    Out of those guys...which one of them is proven to be a power hitting righty MLB hitter. Wright is the only guy and TDA could possibly turn into that one day. Thats it.

    If we are going to make a long term investment to an OFer...I'd prefer it to be a righty.
    And what proven left-handed hitters do we have? I count two: Davis and Murphy.

    Getting rid of Thole fixed our left-handedness issue. Now we have 3 righties and 3 lefties in the line-up everyday with 2 platoons.(Kirk/Cowgill and Baxter/Brown)

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna28 View Post
    Bourn last 4 years:

    2009- 4.9 fWAR
    2010- 4.7 fWAR
    2011- 4.1 fWAR
    2012- 6.4 fWAR

    His OBP has been in the .341-.354 range with 42-61 SB each year. In Citi Field, he would be perfect. If he regresses back to a 4 fWAR player, so be it. That's still very good.
    Which one of those years is the outlier.

    I think its 2012 lol.

    He is a solid CF that could help us, but I don't love the idea of giving him 5 years 60 mil.

    I would love would it would indicate about our FO, but I'd also rather us spend that money on a different player next offseason.

    Two sided coin for me.
    DUDA


    Quote Originally Posted by VendettaRed07 View Post
    noah is gonna be a beast man.

    with him and harvey, its like were gonna have Goku and Vegetta in the same rotation

  8. #128
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    Who would you rather get next year? Also it's unrealistic to acquire a ton of pieces in one off-season.

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna28 View Post
    And what proven left-handed hitters do we have? I count two: Davis and Murphy.

    Getting rid of Thole fixed our left-handedness issue. Now we have 3 righties and 3 lefties in the line-up everyday with 2 platoons.(Kirk/Cowgill and Baxter/Brown)
    OMG FAIL...

    Davis and Murphy are our only two overall lefty hitters that are proven, but we have tons of guys who put up respectable number against right handed pitchers. However, against lefties...these same guys were awful.

    You can't tell me that simply getting rid of Thole fixed our issues.

    Even Ike and Murphy struggle against lefties (Ike a bit more).

    The fact is that our lineup sucks againts lefties and this is an issue. It will continue to be an issue until we make moves that bring in proven hitters that can play almost everyday and hit lefties well.

    Replacing d'Arnaud with Thole doesn't magically fix the problem. Remember, we lost Hairston who crushed lefties.

    All I am saying is that it does not seem as though our funds are limitless. We aren't exactly in position to spend like its monopoly money.

    If we are going to spend, I'd rather it be on a righty or switch hitter...not another lefty who strikes out and has issues from year to year with hitting lefties (Bourn has been up and down in this area).

    I like Bourn, but I don't love him enough to sign him for 5 years, 60 mil.
    Last edited by Wrigheyes4MVP; 01-26-2013 at 12:31 AM.
    DUDA


    Quote Originally Posted by VendettaRed07 View Post
    noah is gonna be a beast man.

    with him and harvey, its like were gonna have Goku and Vegetta in the same rotation

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna28 View Post
    Who would you rather get next year? Also it's unrealistic to acquire a ton of pieces in one off-season.
    Corey Hart comes to mind.

    And isn't next year the offseason where Santana's contract comes off the books? Maybe Bay's too? I'm not exactly sure but that sounds right to me.

    Listen, if we can sign both then thats fine.

    But, if we can't...I'd rather save the money and spend more to get a player like Hart.

    I don't think we need to sign multiple guys. I am fine with making a Corey Hart type of signing and letting the young guys develop.

    I don't think we need to acquire a ton of pieces via FA to get to where we need to go. I just think we need to make the right signings...and one impact signing at that. Thats all I think we need.
    Last edited by Wrigheyes4MVP; 01-26-2013 at 12:37 AM.
    DUDA


    Quote Originally Posted by VendettaRed07 View Post
    noah is gonna be a beast man.

    with him and harvey, its like were gonna have Goku and Vegetta in the same rotation

  11. #131
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    As much as I want them to do something, and add payroll.
    I just don't understand giving Bourn a big deal, I think it's a bad move.

    It would make me me more upset that they didn't sign Reyes last year.
    Reyes is so much better.

    We need outfield help badly, but I just have a bad feeling about this, if he signs.

    Unless they get him on the cheap, then Ill understand, wish it was just a one year deal.

  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrigheyes4MVP View Post
    Which one of those years is the outlier.

    I think its 2012 lol.

    He is a solid CF that could help us, but I don't love the idea of giving him 5 years 60 mil.

    I would love would it would indicate about our FO, but I'd also rather us spend that money on a different player next offseason.

    Two sided coin for me.
    There's no competition for signing Bourne apparently. Teams with a top-ten pick have not shown legit interest, and teams below the Mets have not shown legit interest either. Mets are looking for an opportunity to sign the player cheap--possibly even for 1 year, maybe up to 3 years, but I highly doubt SA would touch 5 years.

    One thing is near certain, Bourne isn't getting the $18 million/year predicted by the pundits. That was never a realistic number anyway. Interesting that Alderson and the Mets would challenge MLB. I thought they were all in bed with Selig.
    John Maeda@johnmaeda

    Knowing the overall *shape* of an idea, argument, situation requires as many facts, models, opinions as you can take/make to see a whole.

  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrigheyes4MVP View Post
    Which one of those years is the outlier.

    I think its 2012 lol.

    He is a solid CF that could help us, but I don't love the idea of giving him 5 years 60 mil.

    I would love would it would indicate about our FO, but I'd also rather us spend that money on a different player next offseason.

    Two sided coin for me.

    Umm. Bourn' fwar over past 4 years has been incredible. That run makes him the 2nd best CF in the league for the past 4 years, narrowly behind Andrew McCutchen.

    This Bourn hate is hilarious. Silly Mets fans. You guys got no clue. If you get him 5/75, that's a STEAL for your team going forward. Who the hell else are you going to get for CF?

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by numbers-king View Post
    Umm. Bourn' fwar over past 4 years has been incredible. That run makes him the 2nd best CF in the league for the past 4 years, narrowly behind Andrew McCutchen.

    This Bourn hate is hilarious. Silly Mets fans. You guys got no clue. If you get him 5/75, that's a STEAL for your team going forward. Who the hell else are you going to get for CF?
    It's not about what he's done, it's about what he will do at ages 33, 34, 35.

    Mets and SA are looking at signing Bourne on their terms, not Boras's. They are more likely to extend a 3 year / $40 million offer, take it or leave it.
    Last edited by Dugmet; 01-26-2013 at 03:28 AM.
    John Maeda@johnmaeda

    Knowing the overall *shape* of an idea, argument, situation requires as many facts, models, opinions as you can take/make to see a whole.

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by numbers-king View Post
    Umm. Bourn' fwar over past 4 years has been incredible. That run makes him the 2nd best CF in the league for the past 4 years, narrowly behind Andrew McCutchen.

    This Bourn hate is hilarious. Silly Mets fans. You guys got no clue. If you get him 5/75, that's a STEAL for your team going forward. Who the hell else are you going to get for CF?
    The guy's stolen bases dropped by 19, he strikes out way too much for a leadoff hitter (155) and he is only a .272 career hitter. We're not exactly talking Tim Raines here. He's a good player but not to the extent of how much Boras wants and for how long he wants. Can we finally give the Mets credit for not jumping and signing anymore 30+ free agents to longterm deals with the exception of Wright who is the productive face of this franchise. I will take him for 1-3 years and if at all possible not lose a first round pick and the money.

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