Revis ?

[IgglesFanInCO]

Corners are the least important position on defense, no way revis would make the type of impact you are saying, he would make a big one, but bigger than two top FAs and a blue chip player?

and i only used Byrd and Albert as examples, and if you are talking about the POSSIBILITY of getting revis and only guessing the price my hypotheticals are if anything more likely than yours, i was fine dealing in hypotheticals but dont try to say youre talking about real stuff, its all speculation, the point is you could be looking at a contract as big as Vicks for a CB that costs a #4 overall pick

[c_reinert]

Corners are the least important position on defense, no way revis would make the type of impact you are saying, he would make a big one, but bigger than two top FAs and a blue chip player?

and i only used Byrd and Albert as examples, and if you are talking about the POSSIBILITY of getting revis and only guessing the price my hypotheticals are if anything more likely than yours, i was fine dealing in hypotheticals but dont try to say youre talking about real stuff, its all speculation, the point is you could be looking at a contract as big as Vicks for a CB that costs a #4 overall pick

How is corner the least important position on defense? If you have a true shutdown corner than you can put on their best playmaker and simply take them out of the game that is a HUGE impact. You dont need to give a guy like Revis safety help, its allows the safeties to support you other CB and the LBs in coverage which in turn allows you to blitz more. Having a CB that can essentially take away an entire side of the field is more of an impact than the over-top coverage a FS like Jarius Byrd provides.

Again, as I said its about value, its much more difficult to find excellence at the CB position. We are far more likely to find effective players at OL and S in later rounds or in the second tier of FAs then we are to find an effective CB in those areas.

And as I said, I believe the Brandon Albert/Jake Long/Whoever we would look to bring in on the OL is somewhat unrelated to the Revis situation and is more heavily connected to the issues with Peters. If Peters goes we can certainly afford a top OL guy, if Peters stays we dont need a top OL guy.

And I would be happy to pay top dollar for the arguably the best defensive player in the game (possibly one of the best CBs of all time already). Also, what people need to realize is how negotiating works, they supposedly threw out that big number, they arent actually expecting to get it, they are expecting whatever organization he winds up with to counter with a lower figure, they then negotiate and meet somewhere in the middle, its not going to cost the $16million/year figure that everyone is throwing around

[IgglesFanInCO]

Theres jut so much wrong with that.......... I dont care how good a corner is, they get exploited without safety help, a great safety duo can make a poor corner duo serviceable, but good corners and bad safeties makes everyone terrible

Revis would not make this a great defense by himself, but hes coming at a price that would make it so he is only worth it if he does, and then factor in the injury risk........... i just don't see any possible way he can be worth it, corners are just not as impactful as great passrushers or run stoppers

but looks like theres no convincing you so lets just agree to disagree its not like theres any chance in hell we go after revis anyways haha we're arguing over something that will never happen theres not really a point

[c_reinert]

Theres jut so much wrong with that.......... I dont care how good a corner is, they get exploited without safety help, a great safety duo can make a poor corner duo serviceable, but good corners and bad safeties makes everyone terrible

Revis would not make this a great defense by himself, but hes coming at a price that would make it so he is only worth it if he does, and then factor in the injury risk........... i just don't see any possible way he can be worth it, corners are just not as impactful as great passrushers or run stoppers

but looks like theres no convincing you so lets just agree to disagree its not like theres any chance in hell we go after revis anyways haha we're arguing over something that will never happen theres not really a point

I will agree to disagree on everything but that. It simply isnt true. Good CBs absolutely can help make up for less than stellar safety play. Look at Revis and Cromartie, very, very effective CB duo yet the Jets have had poor safety play for quite some time. Same thing goes for the Cincinnati Bengals, the Houston Texans, the Atlanta Falcons, the Chicago Bears, the Denver Broncos and the Cleveland Browns. The Bills are very talented at Safety, but are still constantly exposed because their CBs are inadequate. Even a little while ago the Eagles were an example, with Lito Sheppard, Sheldon Brown, Brian Dawkins and Miachael Lewis, lets face it Dawk and Lewis were great players, but werent exactly studs in coverage, the talent of Lito and Sheldon compensated for that

[Eagles710]

Corners are the least important position on defense, no way revis would make the type of impact you are saying, he would make a big one, but bigger than two top FAs and a blue chip player?

and i only used Byrd and Albert as examples, and if you are talking about the POSSIBILITY of getting revis and only guessing the price my hypotheticals are if anything more likely than yours, i was fine dealing in hypotheticals but dont try to say youre talking about real stuff, its all speculation, the point is you could be looking at a contract as big as Vicks for a CB that costs a #4 overall pick

....... Manning, Brady, Rodgers, Brees Would all agree with you lol

THE NFL IS A PASS FIRST LEAGUE! For you to say CORNERS out of every d position is not important.... you sir are crazy

[IgglesFanInCO]

Its not that corners aren't important, defense isnt like offense where there are clearly less important roles like FB, but just try to name a single position that is less important than corners?

they dont make the impact that other positions can, its that simple

look at the broncos, Champ has been a top 3 corner for a decade and has had mostly quality guys as the other part of his corner duo, yet even with good CB play for a long time their defense has only been successful at certain times, namely when they have had a great safety(BDawk) or a couple of steller playmakers (Dumervill and Miller)

corners are a huge part of the defense, but on an individual basis, other positions make more of an impact

[c_reinert]

Its not that corners aren't important, defense isnt like offense where there are clearly less important roles like FB, but just try to name a single position that is less important than corners?

they dont make the impact that other positions can, its that simple

look at the broncos, Champ has been a top 3 corner for a decade and has had mostly quality guys as the other part of his corner duo, yet even with good CB play for a long time their defense has only been successful at certain times, namely when they have had a great safety(BDawk) or a couple of steller playmakers (Dumervill and Miller)

corners are a huge part of the defense, but on an individual basis, other positions make more of an impact

Of course all positions are important on defense. No one is arguing that, the point I am making is that is far, far, far more difficult to find a corner like Revis than it is to find a Safety like Byrd or an OLB like Moore. Because true shut down corners are so rare it DOES make a massive impact on a defense because you can automatically do other things teams without top notch corners can do.

Additionally, Denver is a bad example, as you said they have been successful at times throughout the years and the best two Safeties they ever had were John Lynch and Brian Dawkins, neither of whom were ever anything special in coverage especially at the tail end of their careers when they were with Denver. Plus, Denvers defensive problems have always been issues against the run, they have struggled at DL and LB for years, of course one player doesnt make an entire defense, but that doesnt mean he cant make a larger impact than other players

[fanofphilly]

Well we were doing great against Detroit when Aso was shutting down Megatron, then we took Aso off him and lost the game....so yeah.

Sorry I think CB's are very very important

[Jbendz]

Its not that corners aren't important, defense isnt like offense where there are clearly less important roles like FB, but just try to name a single position that is less important than corners?

they dont make the impact that other positions can, its that simple

look at the broncos, Champ has been a top 3 corner for a decade and has had mostly quality guys as the other part of his corner duo, yet even with good CB play for a long time their defense has only been successful at certain times, namely when they have had a great safety(BDawk) or a couple of steller playmakers (Dumervill and Miller)

corners are a huge part of the defense, but on an individual basis, other positions make more of an impact

I see where you're going with this, but it doesn't really work that way. Football is the ultimate team sport, every position is important. I could say the same thing about LB's. We've seen plenty of good defenses in Philly, but how many great LB's have we had? We've always had very good corners though.

It can vary from scheme to scheme, but you have to have 11 capable players on the field to be truly successful. Look at Asante. You can't very well say a guy like that doesn't make a significant impact on a defense. He most certainly does.

[c_reinert]

I see where you're going with this, but it doesn't really work that way. Football is the ultimate team sport, every position is important. I could say the same thing about LB's. We've seen plenty of good defenses in Philly, but how many great LB's have we had? We've always had very good corners though.

It can vary from scheme to scheme, but you have to have 11 capable players on the field to be truly successful. Look at Asante. You can't very well say a guy like that doesn't make a significant impact on a defense. He most certainly does.

Well said, ultimately all 11 positions are equally as important. The argument that I have been making however is that a great CB is much rarer and harder to come by than a great pass rusher for example which means that the CB position has a higher inherent value. Value =/= importance