Like us on Facebook


Follow us on Twitter





Page 30 of 39 FirstFirst ... 202829303132 ... LastLast
Results 436 to 450 of 585
  1. #436
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    18,385
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by SenorGato View Post
    It was directed at you, probably should have quoted. You don't see any appeal in a 6'2" defensive SS (with every scouting report I've come across saying the D should allow him to stick) that smacked 36 doubles in the FSL? 18% is an awful K rate?
    No, I don't find it particularly impressive given his age. Most reports I've read about him say he's a second division starter. The lack of BA also worries me. I don't value BA that highly in the majors, but in the minors I like to see prospects hitting for average to show that they have a good contact skill.

    As far as Delgado goes I still say the D'Backs picked the right Braves pitching prospect. A 21 year old with health, size, a fastball that can hit 96, a good changeup, and a history of good breaking stuff (I've seen his curve when it was on and came away impressed) is quality to me.
    Delgado is 23 in another week or so. His fastball velocity isn't anything special (averages 92 MPH). He may have a good breaking ball at times, but he didn't show it last year wCB/C (-3.67). I'll buy the change up being his best pitch, but he definitely took a step back with the curve last year.

    I saw it as more of a quantity package. You feel differently and that's why you think Arizona did a good job. Time will tell.


    Vic Mackey: You better figure out how much you hate me. And how you're going to deal with that. 'Cause I'm not going anywhere.

    This sums up every sports interview, ever.

  2. #437
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Connecticut
    Posts
    3,345
    vCash
    1500
    YES! More playing time for AJ Pollock!


    Nets '13-'14 Season: 43-36 (Last Season 49-33)
    Quote Originally Posted by elledaddy View Post
    They COULD win but so can IND,NYK,CHI....
    Im picking the NETS to lose to IND in the first round in the 4/5 matchup
    Quote me
    _____________________________________________
    Yankees & Nets

  3. #438
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    15,203
    vCash
    1500
    No, I don't find it particularly impressive given his age. Most reports I've read about him say he's a second division starter. The lack of BA also worries me. I don't value BA that highly in the majors, but in the minors I like to see prospects hitting for average to show that they have a good contact skill.
    1. A second division starter at SS is better than what most teams are forced to play at SS.

    2. He was a 2011 draftee and 22 is not *that* old for High A. It's at the higher end, sure, but consider that he also jumped two levels of ball a year out of college to do it.

    3. I guess the average is a concern, it's a more sensible concern than the K rate or lack of power (36 doubles is really impressive for any hitter). He was still about 6% better than the league average in that area.

    Delgado is 23 in another week or so. His fastball velocity isn't anything special (averages 92 MPH). He may have a good breaking ball at times, but he didn't show it last year wCB/C (-3.67). I'll buy the change up being his best pitch, but he definitely took a step back with the curve last year.

    I saw it as more of a quantity package. You feel differently and that's why you think Arizona did a good job. Time will tell.
    Good call on the age. The fastball is nothing special but still capable of 96 and there were multiple starts where he averaged 93-94 on the pitch including a really impressive outing against the Cubs. Not every one or everything has to be special to matter, something I think gets lost in prospect (possibly also in the real) world.

    As much as I love FanGraphs and their numbers but if we're going to go by SSS quantitative analysis of a pitch, he was just throwing a positive value curveball in 2011. It's in all his scouting reports that he has a good one, and he showed a quality one at times in 2012 as well anyway. Minimal worry there at best.

  4. #439
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    15,203
    vCash
    1500
    I Don't agree with you when you say Delgado is better han Teheran, his fastball can hit 96MPH but he doesn't throw it for strike, he is a 92-93 MPH pitcher with his fastball, if he keep the ball on the ground and in the ball park i think he can be a 3-4 pitcher in a rotation. Teheran is younger has a better fastball a better command. There's no way that if everything goes right for both players Teheran is the better of the two, by a long shot.
    Delgado isn't necessarily better than Teheran, but he is a significantly better bet to do things like stay healthy than Teheran is.

    I also don't buy that Teheran has the better fastball, not anymore. It certainly wasn't last year.

    The fact that you have to say "if everything goes right" kind of covers why I take Delgado between the two every time. Teheran has to bounce back from last year's debacle, be healthy (there were plenty of rumors that he was hurt last year which is why everything went down), and actually translate that stuff into dominance (for instance, Deglado beats his minor league K rate by almost 2 full Ks). That's a whole lot to do to get everything to go exactly as it's been hyped to end up going.

  5. #440
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    78
    vCash
    1500
    The Braves outfield is the best in the league on paper.

  6. #441
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    5,538
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by SenorGato View Post
    Delgado isn't necessarily better than Teheran, but he is a significantly better bet to do things like stay healthy than Teheran is.

    I also don't buy that Teheran has the better fastball, not anymore. It certainly wasn't last year.

    The fact that you have to say "if everything goes right" kind of covers why I take Delgado between the two every time. Teheran has to bounce back from last year's debacle, be healthy (there were plenty of rumors that he was hurt last year which is why everything went down), and actually translate that stuff into dominance (for instance, Deglado beats his minor league K rate by almost 2 full Ks). That's a whole lot to do to get everything to go exactly as it's been hyped to end up going.
    Teheran wasn't injured last season he had problems with his mechanichs that's why he pitched so poorly. So i don't think Teheran as a pitcher with injury concerns, at least he's been healthy for the last 2 years. He has to bounce back as you said, but talent vs talent Teheran has an edge over Delgado and since Delgado haven't prove he could be a good pitcher in the MLB i'd take the one with more talent everyday.

  7. #442
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    5,930
    vCash
    1500
    Teheran is a potential #1, everyone values that more than a potential #3, which is what Delgado is. Delgado has had a modicum of more MLB success so far but neither has much experience to speak of. Teheran owned AAA in 2011, just completely dominated. 2012 he tried to change mechanics and it didn't work, so now he's back with his old mechanics. 2013 he'll demonstrate just how good he is since he's almost assuredly the Braves #5.

  8. #443
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    8,436
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoCubsTalk View Post
    The Braves outfield is the best in the league on paper.
    Terrible signing in the first place.

  9. #444
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    In the gym
    Posts
    2,340
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by SenorGato View Post
    Delgado isn't necessarily better than Teheran, but he is a significantly better bet to do things like stay healthy than Teheran is.

    I also don't buy that Teheran has the better fastball, not anymore. It certainly wasn't last year.

    The fact that you have to say "if everything goes right" kind of covers why I take Delgado between the two every time. Teheran has to bounce back from last year's debacle, be healthy (there were plenty of rumors that he was hurt last year which is why everything went down), and actually translate that stuff into dominance (for instance, Deglado beats his minor league K rate by almost 2 full Ks). That's a whole lot to do to get everything to go exactly as it's been hyped to end up going.

    Stay healthy? Yes, Delgado hasn't had health issues yet, but neither has Teheran...

  10. #445
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    15,203
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by HowFit View Post
    Stay healthy? Yes, Delgado hasn't had health issues yet, but neither has Teheran...
    Teheran wasn't injured last season he had problems with his mechanichs that's why he pitched so poorly. So i don't think Teheran as a pitcher with injury concerns, at least he's been healthy for the last 2 years. He has to bounce back as you said, but talent vs talent Teheran has an edge over Delgado and since Delgado haven't prove he could be a good pitcher in the MLB i'd take the one with more talent everyday.
    Bad mechanics, performance drop, and velocity loss...if there's smoke...Sickels has speculated since his mid-season review of the 2012 pre-season list. Delgado has had none of those issues to go with a more prototypical frame. It's not as if Delgado is a no stuff guy here.

    *At his best* Teheran is more talented than Delgado. Right now? That is entirely in question.

    Teheran is a potential #1, everyone values that more than a potential #3, which is what Delgado is. Delgado has had a modicum of more MLB success so far but neither has much experience to speak of. Teheran owned AAA in 2011, just completely dominated. 2012 he tried to change mechanics and it didn't work, so now he's back with his old mechanics. 2013 he'll demonstrate just how good he is since he's almost assuredly the Braves #5.
    1. There's flaws in his 2011 numbers. Completely dominated would include a more dominant K rate and probably hit rate, though obviously neither number is bad.

    2. Potential is an extremely overrated word. There are plenty of potential #1s that are currently nowhere close to it. There is a crowd in that group of everyone who prefers at least a dose of reality. Teheran's 2012 and the questions to why it happened are out there to see to, just as it's possible to read that he's a potential #1 starter.

    3. They're always back to their old mechanics, or maybe they tweaked them if the old ones are the heel, or maybe they put on some muscle, or maybe they lost weight...He's probably in the Best Shape He's Ever Been In, a useful trope.

    4. I like Delgado's chances of being that unworthy #3 starter better than I like Teheran's chance of being an ace.

  11. #446
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    5,930
    vCash
    1500
    No, there's a documented reason for the 2012 disparity. You can believe his recent success isn't sustainable, but equating a documented explanation that was club sanctioned with "best shape of his life" just shows you haven't done your homework.

    It's acceptable that you think it's more likely Delgado reaches his lower ceiling than Teheran does his higher ceiling, but pretending like potential #1s grow on trees is just silly. Teheran is still one of the 10 or so most valuable minor leaguers in baseball because of his potential.

  12. #447
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    18,385
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by SenorGato View Post
    1. A second division starter at SS is better than what most teams are forced to play at SS.

    2. He was a 2011 draftee and 22 is not *that* old for High A. It's at the higher end, sure, but consider that he also jumped two levels of ball a year out of college to do it.
    Him being in college is why he skipped the levels though. Normally you'd want the international free agents or high schoolers to play in rookie ball. College guys you can move faster. If he starts the year in AA, he'll be 23, and that's not young for the level either.

    He'll probably be a good defender with a weak bat. I don't think that's great, and he probably won't have a shot at starting for a few years. I just don't expect much here.

    3. I guess the average is a concern, it's a more sensible concern than the K rate or lack of power (36 doubles is really impressive for any hitter). He was still about 6% better than the league average in that area.
    He was around a 104 wRC+ which is decent. But yeah, the low average hitters in the minors tend to worry me.

    Good call on the age. The fastball is nothing special but still capable of 96 and there were multiple starts where he averaged 93-94 on the pitch including a really impressive outing against the Cubs. Not every one or everything has to be special to matter, something I think gets lost in prospect (possibly also in the real) world.

    As much as I love FanGraphs and their numbers but if we're going to go by SSS quantitative analysis of a pitch, he was just throwing a positive value curveball in 2011. It's in all his scouting reports that he has a good one, and he showed a quality one at times in 2012 as well anyway. Minimal worry there at best.
    I hated to use the pitch numbers on a SSS but not having seen him pitch it's all I have to go by. I do like the uptick in GB% but I don't know if that's for real or not. He did give up a fair # of homers in the minors so I wasn't sure why, especially if he's considered an elite prospect.


    Vic Mackey: You better figure out how much you hate me. And how you're going to deal with that. 'Cause I'm not going anywhere.

    This sums up every sports interview, ever.

  13. #448
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    15,203
    vCash
    1500
    Him being in college is why he skipped the levels though. Normally you'd want the international free agents or high schoolers to play in rookie ball. College guys you can move faster. If he starts the year in AA, he'll be 23, and that's not young for the level either.
    Mike Olt was older in AA last year and it's done nothing to hurt his stock. There aren't 30 short stops in the league, and a guy with defensive skills who's shown some ability to hit the ball into the gaps and take some walks will get a ton of interest.

    He'll probably be a good defender with a weak bat. I don't think that's great, and he probably won't have a shot at starting for a few years. I just don't expect much here.
    Not only can the bat play up in Arizona, but there's secondary skills there. You're really focused on the HR power and ignoring that 36 doubles is and an 8.5% walk rate is strong at any level of baseball. He's a defensive SS with secondary skills offensively - that is a rare thing pretty much all the time.

    I hated to use the pitch numbers on a SSS but not having seen him pitch it's all I have to go by. I do like the uptick in GB% but I don't know if that's for real or not. He did give up a fair # of homers in the minors so I wasn't sure why, especially if he's considered an elite prospect.
    Oh god dammit. Nothing against you, just what you did. FanGraphs scouting is the worst, and it's entirely too common.

    The curveball being gone is real, but the groundballs aren't (they came with a significant increase in two seam fastballs).

    He's not considered an elite prospect. There is most to prospectdom than elite prospect with #1 upside/potential. He's been a very well thought of prospect for a while now, top 50 twice with BA from his BBref page, and come on....You haven't even seen the guy?

    Another thing is that it's hard to buy that the D'Backs did not have their choice of Teheran/Delgado when they're giving up a 25 year old AS with 30 HR power. They went with the guy who threw effective major league innings at a still very young age with some very promising stuff over the guy who struggled mightily in AAA after coming into the year higher up on mostly arbitrarily compiled lists.

  14. #449
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    15,203
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by flea View Post
    No, there's a documented reason for the 2012 disparity. You can believe his recent success isn't sustainable, but equating a documented explanation that was club sanctioned with "best shape of his life" just shows you haven't done your homework.

    It's acceptable that you think it's more likely Delgado reaches his lower ceiling than Teheran does his higher ceiling, but pretending like potential #1s grow on trees is just silly. Teheran is still one of the 10 or so most valuable minor leaguers in baseball because of his potential.
    You spend enough time following prospects and you would be stunned how many "potential #1s" are out there.

    Here's a 2012 scouting report from one of the better individual scouting report websites out there:

    http://baseballprospectnation.com/20...o-teheran-rhp/

    It opens with:

    BLUF: Expectations have to change and he looks more like a number three starter with a tantalizing FB-CH combination.
    The guy has always been fairly hittable for a supposed future #1, and he's only once put up the kind of K rates a future #1 kinda prospect puts up.

    I can easily name 10 more valuable minor leagues btw:

    Taveras
    Profar
    Myers
    Baez
    Bogaerts
    D'Arnaud
    Zunino
    Bundy
    Fernandez
    Cole
    Walker
    Skaggs

    Got to 12 before I even had to think about it, and could probably keep going:

    Hamilton
    Sano
    Lindor
    Yelich
    Taillon
    Bauer
    Wheeler
    Bradley

  15. #450
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    18,385
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by SenorGato View Post
    Mike Olt was older in AA last year and it's done nothing to hurt his stock. There aren't 30 short stops in the league, and a guy with defensive skills who's shown some ability to hit the ball into the gaps and take some walks will get a ton of interest.
    Mike Holt also put up pretty impressive offensive numbers. So there's a small difference. Ahmed wasn't really that impressive.


    Not only can the bat play up in Arizona, but there's secondary skills there. You're really focused on the HR power and ignoring that 36 doubles is and an 8.5% walk rate is strong at any level of baseball. He's a defensive SS with secondary skills offensively - that is a rare thing pretty much all the time.
    I didn't focus on home runs, I focused on ISO. And I never ignored the walk rate. I just said I wasn't impressed by the overall numbers, and that I was worried about the lack of contact and how that would translate.

    Oh god dammit. Nothing against you, just what you did. FanGraphs scouting is the worst, and it's entirely too common.

    The curveball being gone is real, but the groundballs aren't (they came with a significant increase in two seam fastballs).

    He's not considered an elite prospect. There is most to prospectdom than elite prospect with #1 upside/potential. He's been a very well thought of prospect for a while now, top 50 twice with BA from his BBref page, and come on....You haven't even seen the guy?
    Why would I see the guy? He's a minor leaguer that plays for an NL team. I'm not a trained scout, so even if I saw the guy it wouldn't make much of a difference. And unless you're a trained scout, I wouldn't value your opinion from what you saw (no offence intended, as that's how I feel about everybody who isn't a trained evaluator). I don't claim to be an expert on prospects, but I do a combination of stats and scouting reports of respected evaluators. More often then not I'm right.

    And I never said he was a #1/ace upside. You're making a lot of assumptions.

    Another thing is that it's hard to buy that the D'Backs did not have their choice of Teheran/Delgado when they're giving up a 25 year old AS with 30 HR power. They went with the guy who threw effective major league innings at a still very young age with some very promising stuff over the guy who struggled mightily in AAA after coming into the year higher up on mostly arbitrarily compiled lists.
    There's a difference between average and effective. Delgado was average to slightly below average. I don't buy that argument, as I don't think the D-Backs had as much leverage as you're suggesting they did. I wasn't that impressed with Towers offseason, so him having the choice of pitchers wouldn't inspire me in the least.
    Last edited by Twitchy; 01-31-2013 at 09:47 PM.


    Vic Mackey: You better figure out how much you hate me. And how you're going to deal with that. 'Cause I'm not going anywhere.

    This sums up every sports interview, ever.

Page 30 of 39 FirstFirst ... 202829303132 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •