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  1. #166
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    Jack Magruder ‏@JackMagruder

    #Dbacks expect to sign new 3B Prado, a free agent after 2013, to long-term extension in the near future, source said. Only way deal was made

  2. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaSox_05 View Post
    Jeffy you cant be serious about this, can you?
    Yes.

    Prado
    2012 - .301/.359/.438 - .345 wOBA, 116 wRC+
    5.4 rWAR, 5.9 fWAR, 1.7 dWAR, 19 DRS and played 6 positions

    Upton career best
    2011 - .289/.369/.529 - .385 wOBA, 139 wRC+
    5.7 rWAR, 6.4 fWAR, -0.4 dWAR, 2 DRS

    And considering that was two years ago, and Prado was last year, and Prado is more versatile and consistent.

    Yeah, I'd say so.


    Upton has potential certainly, and he is the better offensive player. But Prado is no slouch and a great player.

    And Prado is making 3 million less this year.

    Prado was significantly better than Upton in 2012 as well.

  3. #168
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    I think the deal shows Uptons trade value is down. Teams need players like Prado, and while he isnt the centerpiece or considered valuable, his addition to the roster and lineup will make a nice impact. Delgado is the only spect I know anything about in this deal, that appears to be the centerpiece to me. Can't really judge what ARI got yet, but its easy to hate it now.

    2 uptons and a heyward look great on paper, could be ridiculous, but all 3 are very streaky. Who plays LF and how much does that move piss them off? Justin and Heyward would easily end up in the top5 of the mvp race every year, but they could also struggle and just be overhyped big names. As a phils fan, I'd say that team looks pretty good right now. ATL/WAS look like they'll be around for a while, but I prefer my squad as an underdog anyway.

  4. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    get made at Hal, not Cash
    Thank you! Hal is trying to be his dad or sell the team. Either way he's clueless when it comes to trading/free agency.

  5. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by twentysix View Post
    Jack Magruder ‏@JackMagruder

    #Dbacks expect to sign new 3B Prado, a free agent after 2013, to long-term extension in the near future, source said. Only way deal was made
    Good for them.

    I hate what Towers has done as a GM. He has no clue what he is doing most of the time.

    But Prado is a good player, and a nice extension is ideal. I love versatile players that do all the little things, that's Prado.


    They didn't really get a significant prospect back, which is what you wanted to see for Arizona if they were going to move Upton. But Prado isn't a bad prize mixed with this package.

  6. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by beldugo View Post
    You also have to believe that J.Upton will be much better than 2012.
    Not necessarily his numbers away from Chase field are not very good.

  7. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoBraves View Post
    MetsWon69, we understand you're a Mets fan Its ok, we forgive you for doing your best to rain down on this parade!

    We all loved Prado, but he is a one year rental! he was asking for $12m + on an extension after 2013. so the Braves gave up 1 year of Prado, and Delgado (who almost got traded for half a year of Dempster) and nick Ahmed who is blocked by Simmons. The braves did not include any of their top 9 prospects on this trade to acquire 25 year old Justin Upton to roam the outfield with his brother and J-hey for the next 3 years!

    By the way there are plenty of articles showing why J. Uptons splits are meaningless. Mets fans even posted it in your own forums.

    YoungStunna, I have read your posts in your forum how much of a superstar J. Upton was when the Mets inquired on him, all of a sudden, in a braves uni. he's inconsistent? Be consistent bro. shocking how only the two Mets fans are the one who dont like this trade! Hmm..
    I am not raining on your parade, i am just saying it's possible both Uptons are downgrades.

    The statistics for 2012 say they are.

    Upton aside from 2011 is all potential to this point and his splits are not immaterial..

    Are Carlos Gonzalez's numbers away from Coors Field immaterial? Those are players with similar home and away value to this point.

    They are distinctly different players away from their very advantageous ballparks.
    Last edited by metswon69; 01-24-2013 at 12:31 PM.

  8. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoBraves View Post
    MetsWon69, we understand you're a Mets fan Its ok, we forgive you for doing your best to rain down on this parade!

    We all loved Prado, but he is a one year rental! he was asking for $12m + on an extension after 2013. so the Braves gave up 1 year of Prado, and Delgado (who almost got traded for half a year of Dempster) and nick Ahmed who is blocked by Simmons. The braves did not include any of their top 9 prospects on this trade to acquire 25 year old Justin Upton to roam the outfield with his brother and J-hey for the next 3 years!

    By the way there are plenty of articles showing why J. Uptons splits are meaningless. Mets fans even posted it in your own forums.

    YoungStunna, I have read your posts in your forum how much of a superstar J. Upton was when the Mets inquired on him, all of a sudden, in a braves uni. he's inconsistent? Be consistent bro. shocking how only the two Mets fans are the one who dont like this trade! Hmm..
    It's very possible the Braves outfield produces worse this year than they did last year.

  9. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    Not necessarily his numbers away from Chase field are not very good.
    J.Upton had a bad year in 2012 that could happen to anyone, for example look at Martin Prado 2011 season. Everyone knows the potential J.Upton has he even finished 4th in the MVP in 2011, was a number 1 pick and reach the majors at the age of 19. You can't judge Upton for the 2012 season, i imagine that if this deal was made 1 year ago you will say it was a steal for the braves because Prado sucked in 2011? No, Prado was an excellent player before 2011 so you can't judge him for one bad year.

    There are different reasons why hitters hit better in their home park, and is not like Chase field is Colorado, there's a difference in that. For example look at Freddie Freeman splits stats and explain me how he has been a much better hitter in atlanta (neutral park).
    Last edited by beldugo; 01-24-2013 at 12:31 PM.

  10. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    I am not raining on your parade, i am just saying it's possible both Uptons are downgrades.

    The statistics for 2012 say they are.

    Upton aside from 2011 is all potential to this point and his splits are not immaterial..

    Are Carlos Gonzalez's numbers away from Coors Field immaterial? Upton has more talent but that doesn't mean he'll reach his potential.

    They are distinctly different players away from their very advantageous ballparks.
    http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index...effect-mirage/
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    It's very possible the Braves outfield produces worse this year than they did last year.
    You're putting WAY too much stock into defensive statistics. Prado's UZR last year was higher than his career total. It was an outlier season/no defender in baseball(save for MAYBE a few) are worth that much defensively and we both know that. It was 3 times as much as his next highest which was twice as high as his 3rd best defensive season.

    Bourn is a solid defender but really nothing special offensively nor has he ever been. I'm not saying we win big in this trade because Prado is an awesome player but I truly can't believe you're using their WARs last year to make your argument.

  11. #176
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    Well that would depend on how much you value absurdly high defensive numbers.
    2013

  12. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    Yes.

    Prado
    2012 - .301/.359/.438 - .345 wOBA, 116 wRC+
    5.4 rWAR, 5.9 fWAR, 1.7 dWAR, 19 DRS and played 6 positions

    Upton career best
    2011 - .289/.369/.529 - .385 wOBA, 139 wRC+
    5.7 rWAR, 6.4 fWAR, -0.4 dWAR, 2 DRS

    And considering that was two years ago, and Prado was last year, and Prado is more versatile and consistent.

    Yeah, I'd say so.


    Upton has potential certainly, and he is the better offensive player. But Prado is no slouch and a great player.

    And Prado is making 3 million less this year.

    Prado was significantly better than Upton in 2012 as well.
    Prado's WAR weighted heavy on his defense because he plays multiple positions well. So that can be thrown out. Upton is younger and is way better offensively than Prado. Prado has only had an OPS over .800 twice, Upton's career OPS is .832. Don't get me wrong Prado is a nice player, but don't try to compare them, Upton is by far the more superior player.

  13. #178
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    Bob Nightengale ‏@BNightengale

    The #Dbacks will now try to package SS Nick Ahmed and pitching prospect in trade for #Tigers starter Rick Porcello, one NL official says

  14. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by ugafan View Post
    http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index...effect-mirage/

    You're putting WAY too much stock into defensive statistics. Prado's UZR last year was higher than his career total. It was an outlier season/no defender in baseball(save for MAYBE a few) are worth that much defensively and we both know that. It was 3 times as much as his next highest which was twice as high as his 3rd best defensive season.

    Bourn is a solid defender but really nothing special offensively nor has he ever been. I'm not saying we win big in this trade because Prado is an awesome player but I truly can't believe you're using their WARs last year to make your argument.
    I've read that article before and Upton actually hits well in San Diego so that's not entirely factual (PETCO for his career: .291/.354/.547 over 148 at bats).

    And it doesn't change the fact he his stat line at home is going to regress away from Chase Field. He plays 90 games a year in great offensive parks between Arizona and Colorado. That's 56% of the schedule.

    The NL East is not necessarily filled with hitter's parks either.

    Citi Field, Nationals Park, Turner Field, and Marlins Park are still advantageous pitchers parks even if they aren't to the extent Petco or AT&T are.

    Even if you take in the fact that he will hit better away from home, he will also not get the benefit of playing all those home games in a very advantageous Chase Field.
    Last edited by metswon69; 01-24-2013 at 12:47 PM.

  15. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by beldugo View Post
    J.Upton had a bad year in 2012 that could happen to anyone, for example look at Martin Prado 2011 season. Everyone knows the potential J.Upton has he even finished 4th in the MVP in 2011, was a number 1 pick and reach the majors at the age of 19. You can't judge Upton for the 2012 season, i imagine that if this deal was made 1 year ago you will say it was a steal for the braves because Prado sucked in 2011? No, Prado was an excellent player before 2011 so you can't judge him for one bad year.

    There are different reasons why hitters hit better in their home park, and is not like Chase field is Colorado, there's a difference in that. For example look at Freddie Freeman splits stats and explain me how he has been a much better hitter in atlanta (neutral park).
    I am not debating his potential...

    I am just giving your definitive numbers that say he is not great away from Chase Field.
    Last edited by metswon69; 01-24-2013 at 12:44 PM.

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